COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[YoYoIsMyHero]

 

This image of a nurse silently counter-protesting an anti stay-at-home protest is incredible.

How much you want to bet that USA shirt was made in China?

Edited April 20, 2020 by YoYoIsMyHero

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

 

This image of a nurse silently counter-protesting an anti stay-at-home protest is incredible.

How much you want to bet that USA shirt was made in China?

Right now, all production of the new “DT” generation of the Ram 1500 takes place in Sterling Heights, Michigan, while the older heavy-duty Ram trucks are built in Saltillo, Mexico.

PPE highly likely made in China, unless 3M.

With the exception of brands like American Apparel, most t-shirt mills do most– if not all– of their manufacturing outside of the United States.  

Maybe they can carry along pillows from that My Pillow guy next...he’ll probably be named new head of the SBA the way things are going.

 

Oh, well.

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

How about this:

You’re a scientist right?  You are obviously trained not to jump to conclusions.  What data specifically leads you to your conclusions?  Like of all the data points available out there, which ones do you lean the heaviest on right now?  

Reported cases, deaths per million, etc.  Which ones scare the shit out of you the most and make you say, “Yes.  This piece of data has to be super close to 100% true and scares the crap out of me.  Others need to look at this right here.”  

Which one or ones?

Seriously?

41,000 dead Americans dead in a month. That is 15x the rate of gun violence in this country. It’s not even super close to true as the real number is what, 1.5 times that? 2 times that?

We now have 13 9/11s out of just what we’ve counted, ignoring people dying at home or in immigrant communities or wherever else doesn’t matter. Imagine a 9/11 every 2 days. A Vietnam war each month. Is there no one you care about? You know no one who is immune compromised? Well let me introduce you.

2 days ago I was yelling at a distance at the 9 kids using the playground in my neighborhood because I couldn’t call the police as it was under 10 people, and if one of them had it then this neighborhood would have 5 families infected this week and no one would know until they passed it to me. I’m immune suppressed because my immune system went haywire last year, I’m out of a job in 5 weeks, my career is over, and if I can’t find something else I have no idea how to procure health insurance during this. I am personally terrified, with good reason. My doctor literally told me that because I was such a regular blood donor for 20 years I might have delayed the onset by helping nearly 300 people with donations, but I couldn’t stop that.

So you want to know what scares me? It’s people like you ignoring how serious this is or coming up with your own conspiracy about why you are special, because if enough of you do that and one of you coughs on my porch, I die an agonizing death, and I become that statistic for you to ignore.

I planned for this financially starting years ago. I will not go bankrupt any time soon because I thought there was a good chance our leadership would find a way to do something awful, and they did. But I couldn’t control my immune system, and right now I need help. I only live through this if other people act like this is serious. I can’t beat it if you don’t.

so you know what scares me? That you and people like you are asking that question. Because you aren’t holding chambers 5 and 6 at your own head, you are holding it at mine and asking why I should be afraid. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Seriously?

41,000 dead Americans dead in a month. That is 15x the rate of gun violence in this country. It’s not even super close to true as the real number is what, 1.5 times that? 2 times that?

We now have 13 9/11s out of just what we’ve counted, ignoring people dying at home or in immigrant communities or wherever else doesn’t matter. Imagine a 9/11 every 2 days. A Vietnam war each month. Is there no one you care about? You know no one who is immune compromised? Well let me introduce you.

2 days ago I was yelling at a distance at the 9 kids using the playground in my neighborhood because I couldn’t call the police as it was under 10 people, and if one of them had it then this neighborhood would have 5 families infected this week and no one would know until they passed it to me. I’m immune suppressed because my immune system went haywire last year, I’m out of a job in 5 weeks, my career is over, and if I can’t find something else I have no idea how to procure health insurance during this. I am personally terrified, with good reason. My doctor literally told me that because I was such a regular blood donor for 20 years I might have delayed the onset by helping nearly 300 people with donations, but I couldn’t stop that.

So you want to know what scares me? It’s people like you ignoring how serious this is or coming up with your own conspiracy about why you are special, because if enough of you do that and one of you coughs on my porch, I die an agonizing death, and I become that statistic for you to ignore.

I planned for this financially starting years ago. I will not go bankrupt any time soon because I thought there was a good chance our leadership would find a way to do something awful, and they did. But I couldn’t control my immune system, and right now I need help. I only live through this if other people act like this is serious. I can’t beat it if you don’t.

so you know what scares me? That you and people like you are asking that question. Because you aren’t holding chambers 5 and 6 at your own head, you are holding it at mine and asking why I should be afraid. 

 

Leaving the US is probably the last thing you want to think about right now, but there are lots of opportunities for someone with a PhD to teach in places like Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, HK, Japan, etc.    You might lose about 2-4 weeks of holiday compared to a typical university schedule...and the "travel opportunities" are not nearly so enticing as they were a decade or so ago, for obvious reasons.

It seems your degree is pretty highly specialized, if I remember correctly...but there might be a fit with a specific IB, A-Levels (A2 or seniors) or AP class.

Assuming your salary is in the $60-75,000ish range, you might take a slight pay cut, but most teaching positions abroad carry very solid health insurance (ours here in Wuhan is probably going to need to be readjusted before we go back to work because it would only max out at $7,000 USD if any of us were to contract COVID-19, the government had previously been covering everyone inside the borders before it got so politicized.)

Teachers wanting to make even more money can set up additional private lessons on the side, or contract with a private training center for a group or individual lessons in a specific subject area.

(Can't honestly recommend China right now because of the anti-immigrant trend and the fact there's a current flight ban on entering the country.)

Edited April 20, 2020 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

7 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

How about this:

You’re a scientist right?  You are obviously trained not to jump to conclusions.  What data specifically leads you to your conclusions?  Like of all the data points available out there, which ones do you lean the heaviest on right now?  

Reported cases, deaths per million, etc.  Which ones scare the shit out of you the most and make you say, “Yes.  This piece of data has to be super close to 100% true and scares the crap out of me.  Others need to look at this right here.”  

Which one or ones?

I just don't see how people downplay this at all. It's not like a flu. It's not like auto accidents. There are 41,000 deaths with the world basically stopped. What would the total be if the world was not stopped? It should freak you out. People in large groups, or walking around without a mask should piss you off 1000 times more than someone lighting up a smoke in an airplane or restaurant and blowing smoke in your or your family's face. One time won't kill you. This might.

[caulfield12]

32 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I just don't see how people downplay this at all. It's not like a flu. It's not like auto accidents. There are 41,000 deaths with the world basically stopped. What would the total be if the world was not stopped? It should freak you out. People in large groups, or walking around without a mask should piss you off 1000 times more than someone lighting up a smoke in an airplane or restaurant and blowing smoke in your or your family's face. One time won't kill you. This might.

You can choose whether you get a flu shot or not, just as you can choose whether to drive a car, buy a gun or get on an airplane.  Whether to wear a seatbelt or not.

The likelihood of someone dying from this is magnitudes higher than for a person over 60 to make any of those five choices.   At least with the flu, there’s a shot.

While there’s certainly risk from drunk or reckless drivers or texting while driving, we consider these acceptable risks as members of society.  The various rights and freedoms of everyday life in America, a series of tradeoffs.

 

The question is when the risk to others starts to outweigh the benefits any one individual receives or enjoys.  

It’s one of the reasons that the social acceptance of smoking has decreased dramatically over the last fifty years in the US, right?

 

“If the (Wuhan) citizen goes to the supermarket or takes a car to go shopping, and there is a person in the supermarket or car you come into contact with who has a fever or cough,  the green QR ( mobile phone app) code will turn to yellow.  If that person is diagnosed as a new case, the citizen must go to the designated place for isolation/quarantine for 14 days, and the total cost of the inspection, blood sampling, CT, accommodation, living expenses, etc., during this period is $1,143 and borne by the citizen himself.  If the test is positive, the treatment fee of $60,000 shall be borne by the citizen themselves.”

I don’t think you would see many protests with that particular policy in place in the US.

It should be noted that up until the end of March (the 24th), the government paid all the costs for test/treatment.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

8 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Seriously?

41,000 dead Americans dead in a month. That is 15x the rate of gun violence in this country. It’s not even super close to true as the real number is what, 1.5 times that? 2 times that?

We now have 13 9/11s out of just what we’ve counted, ignoring people dying at home or in immigrant communities or wherever else doesn’t matter. Imagine a 9/11 every 2 days. A Vietnam war each month. Is there no one you care about? You know no one who is immune compromised? Well let me introduce you.

2 days ago I was yelling at a distance at the 9 kids using the playground in my neighborhood because I couldn’t call the police as it was under 10 people, and if one of them had it then this neighborhood would have 5 families infected this week and no one would know until they passed it to me. I’m immune suppressed because my immune system went haywire last year, I’m out of a job in 5 weeks, my career is over, and if I can’t find something else I have no idea how to procure health insurance during this. I am personally terrified, with good reason. My doctor literally told me that because I was such a regular blood donor for 20 years I might have delayed the onset by helping nearly 300 people with donations, but I couldn’t stop that.

So you want to know what scares me? It’s people like you ignoring how serious this is or coming up with your own conspiracy about why you are special, because if enough of you do that and one of you coughs on my porch, I die an agonizing death, and I become that statistic for you to ignore.

I planned for this financially starting years ago. I will not go bankrupt any time soon because I thought there was a good chance our leadership would find a way to do something awful, and they did. But I couldn’t control my immune system, and right now I need help. I only live through this if other people act like this is serious. I can’t beat it if you don’t.

so you know what scares me? That you and people like you are asking that question. Because you aren’t holding chambers 5 and 6 at your own head, you are holding it at mine and asking why I should be afraid. 

It's not just the immunocompromised, either. It's all the frontline workers in the medical sector, both doctors/nurses and support staff. Between friends and close family, I've got 5 nurses or medical technicians who are going into hospitals every day right now. The company I work for provides frontline non-medical staff for a number of hospitals in this country and others. In our biweekly all-company calls, our CEO has started to read off the names and biographies of employees who have died from COVID.

 

If the government does the right thing and helps people through a tight lockdown, the risk of "doing too much" is significant but surmountable. The risk of doing too little and treating this as no big deal at all, of convincing yourself that 50-100M Americans already had the disease by mid-March, and being wrong is millions dead and a devastated economy anyway.

[caulfield12]

In Indianapolis, protester Andy Lyons said he understands the health risks. But he wants the government to back off.

"If I get sick, then I am going to bear the consequences of my getting sick," Lyons told CNN affiliate WTHR. "If anybody else gets sick, they bear the consequences of their free choice without government coercion to do so. That's what this is about."

cnn.com

 

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/harvard-richest-9-million-cares-aid-033517131.html

Roughly $45 million to Ivy League schools through CARES?   WTH???   $41 billion endowment...

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

In Indianapolis, protester Andy Lyons said he understands the health risks. But he wants the government to back off.

"If I get sick, then I am going to bear the consequences of my getting sick," Lyons told CNN affiliate WTHR. "If anybody else gets sick, they bear the consequences of their free choice without government coercion to do so. That's what this is about."

cnn.com

Which I would have no issue with if it were that simple. But he can get someone else sick, who gets a few more sick, who gets my wife with asthma sick, and she dies Where would her free choice be?

[bmags]

I was optimistic for a time last week, but really disappointing weekend data. Tests have gone up while the percentage positive has gone down, but we haven't bent the curve anywhere. With streets empty and nothing happening, we are still seeing each new sick person infect another at least 1 other person. Now 4/19 illinois said they expected their peak to be, so maybe now we see the change. But this week, by friday, I'd really like to see consistently under 1k new cases per day.

[Dick Allen]

Former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb said today the US won't have enough testing until hopefully September.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I was optimistic for a time last week, but really disappointing weekend data. Tests have gone up while the percentage positive has gone down, but we haven't bent the curve anywhere. With streets empty and nothing happening, we are still seeing each new sick person infect another at least 1 other person. Now 4/19 illinois said they expected their peak to be, so maybe now we see the change. But this week, by friday, I'd really like to see consistently under 1k new cases per day.

There were a lot of people out this past weekend. The timing of this virus did us no favors. If it hit in December or January, staying at home wouldn't be as big of a deal. Now, everyone wants to go out. And it's starting to look like many have given up on the social distancing.

[southsider2k5]

21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

In Indianapolis, protester Andy Lyons said he understands the health risks. But he wants the government to back off.

"If I get sick, then I am going to bear the consequences of my getting sick," Lyons told CNN affiliate WTHR. "If anybody else gets sick, they bear the consequences of their free choice without government coercion to do so. That's what this is about."

cnn.com

 

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/harvard-richest-9-million-cares-aid-033517131.html

Roughly $45 million to Ivy League schools through CARES?   WTH???   $41 billion endowment...

 

If you knowingly infect someone with AIDS it is a felony.  If you repeatedly shoot a fire arm into the air and eventually strike someone, it is manslaughter.  Let's start talking about the same kind of penalties here.

[Jerksticks]

8 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Seriously?

41,000 dead Americans dead in a month. That is 15x the rate of gun violence in this country. It’s not even super close to true as the real number is what, 1.5 times that? 2 times that?

We now have 13 9/11s out of just what we’ve counted, ignoring people dying at home or in immigrant communities or wherever else doesn’t matter. Imagine a 9/11 every 2 days. A Vietnam war each month. Is there no one you care about? You know no one who is immune compromised? Well let me introduce you.

2 days ago I was yelling at a distance at the 9 kids using the playground in my neighborhood because I couldn’t call the police as it was under 10 people, and if one of them had it then this neighborhood would have 5 families infected this week and no one would know until they passed it to me. I’m immune suppressed because my immune system went haywire last year, I’m out of a job in 5 weeks, my career is over, and if I can’t find something else I have no idea how to procure health insurance during this. I am personally terrified, with good reason. My doctor literally told me that because I was such a regular blood donor for 20 years I might have delayed the onset by helping nearly 300 people with donations, but I couldn’t stop that.

So you want to know what scares me? It’s people like you ignoring how serious this is or coming up with your own conspiracy about why you are special, because if enough of you do that and one of you coughs on my porch, I die an agonizing death, and I become that statistic for you to ignore.

I planned for this financially starting years ago. I will not go bankrupt any time soon because I thought there was a good chance our leadership would find a way to do something awful, and they did. But I couldn’t control my immune system, and right now I need help. I only live through this if other people act like this is serious. I can’t beat it if you don’t.

so you know what scares me? That you and people like you are asking that question. Because you aren’t holding chambers 5 and 6 at your own head, you are holding it at mine and asking why I should be afraid. 

Dear Lord man.  You feel better?  Did you sleep?
 

Flattening the curve and containment are not the same thing.  We flattened the curve to avoid overrunning the available hospital care, not to snuff out the virus.  And now you’re the one saying we need to trace and contain because (paraphrasing) “if one guy goes to a state park...you create the whole outbreak all over again.”   That’s super scary.  
 

In your scenario, you’re tracing and containing from your state park, or grocery store, or hardware store, or train...but you’re ignoring the huge asymptomatic transmission going on as well.  Every day, more information comes out that sends the asymptomatic rate even higher and higher.  So again, how are you tracing and containing anything?  And on top of that, how are you tracing and containing starting from a point of non-containment (flattening the curve wasn’t containment, current asymptomatic transmission during social distancing is ongoing).
 

So again, what data point scares the shit out of you into thinking we’ve roughly contained the virus, and that opening is going to unleash doomsday again?  Because that’s what you are telling people by saying we need to trace and contain.  That this is a ticking time bomb ready to explode again the minute we open up.  That’s scary as fuck.  You’re scaring people.  Which is fine, but you need data.  40,000 dead Americans is a reason to be scared, but by all accounts is pretty miraculous and a testament to our medical community and social distancing working.  And since the goal of all this was never to snuff out the virus, but flatten the curve, why are we going to spike exponentially everywhere now if we open in the coming weeks?  Was flattening pointless?  Again point to some data that proves we didn’t flatten the curve.   

Not sure how me suggesting the impossibility of trace and contain equates to “not taking this seriously”.  I know one person who almost died in the hospital but survived, and my immunocompromised wife had the worst flu of her life a month ago with O2 approaching ninety but couldn’t get tested.  This is serious for everybody man; it’s inappropriate to take a “this is more serious to me” attitude and use that as some authority to dictate to others.   You won’t apologize but that’s okay.   Just chill out a little bit at least and discuss the virus, which we still don’t have much good data about.  I get you’re scared because you’re more vulnerable, but some of us want to get excited when we see data that may hint that humans like you and my wife maybe aren’t going to be as hurt as previously thought.  It’s okay to root for the good guys here.  Root for the humans.  Root for the Swedes to somehow flatten despite 10 million exposed; root for them to end up with a death rate between .0001-.001.  Root for the asymptomatic rate to be astronomical.  Stay safe.

 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you knowingly infect someone with AIDS it is a felony.  If you repeatedly shoot a fire arm into the air and eventually strike someone, it is manslaughter.  Let's start talking about the same kind of penalties here.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-adviser-kudlow-wife-loan-business-coronavirus-relief-program-easy-2020-4
 

This is the world we live in now.   Shake Shack got $10 million and gave it back so “real” small businesses would have an opportunity.  Kudos to them, at least.

Meanwhile, Larry Kudlow’s wife was supposedly approved for a significant loan for her home-based art business.   How is she even allowed to apply?   And how is the chair of the Council of Economic Advisors only worth $2 million?   Not buying that for a second.

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-adviser-kudlow-wife-loan-business-coronavirus-relief-program-easy-2020-4
 

This is the world we live in now.   Shake Shack got $10 million and gave it back so “real” small businesses would have an opportunity.  Kudos to them, at least.

Meanwhile, Larry Kudlow’s wife was supposedly approved for a significant loan for her home-based art business.   How is she even allowed to apply?   And how is the chair of the Council of Economic Advisors only worth $2 million?   Not buying that for a second.

I mean the problem isn't shake shack got $10 million, it's that so little was earmarked people feel like it's a zero sum amount. Shake shack is closed now. It can't make money. Sure, give it money.

But every small business should also get money. There is so little risk in making the appropriate amount of money available and some getting more than they should compared to making little available and many getting less than they need just in hopes that those that have enough don't get any.

[Texsox]

We need to look at the difference between helping the employees and helping the business. Why should the government be giving / loaning money for a business to make payroll? Give it to the people directly.

If the money is to pay rent, insurance, and other costs associated with running a business that do not go away when the doors are shut, should it make a difference in how many employees a company has?

[Texsox]

Now that Texas has opened up (with heavy restrictions) the State Parks for people to basically walk around in I'm hoping allowing self contained RVs isn't far behind. I'd much rather spend the next few weeks in my RV at a state park then here at home. I even have one picked out with cell phone service that will allow us to keep working. 

[Dick Allen]

This isn't too encouraging, one of the people overseeing the covid 19 vaccine research was forced out of his vaccine development job at Texas A & M in 2015.

The 

 

[turnin' two]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Right now, all production of the new “DT” generation of the Ram 1500 takes place in Sterling Heights, Michigan, while the older heavy-duty Ram trucks are built in Saltillo, Mexico.

PPE highly likely made in China, unless 3M.

With the exception of brands like American Apparel, most t-shirt mills do most– if not all– of their manufacturing outside of the United States.  

Maybe they can carry along pillows from that My Pillow guy next...he’ll probably be named new head of the SBA the way things are going.

 

Oh, well.

That truck was 100% built in Michigan.  At the Warren truck plant.  A plant that has been in operation since 1938 and converted from building cars to building tanks during WWII.  Some of the Rams are built in Mexico, the regular cab and HD varieties.  Right now, FCA has 2 plants (Sterling Heights and Warren) basically running to capacity ( at least before the shutdown) building Rams in Michigan.

 

It is a powerful picture though.  I understand that people are frustrated and scared by what is going on.  People want their lives and livelihoods back.  They want to enjoy a hard earned spring.  But you can't protest and yell a  virus away.  And to do things that could enhance its spread are ridiculous.  All we can really do, is hope and pray that the medical community and the much demonized pharma industry can come up with treatments and vaccines.   

 

 

[caulfield12]

29 minutes ago, bmags said:

I mean the problem isn't shake shack got $10 million, it's that so little was earmarked people feel like it's a zero sum amount. Shake shack is closed now. It can't make money. Sure, give it money.

But every small business should also get money. There is so little risk in making the appropriate amount of money available and some getting more than they should compared to making little available and many getting less than they need just in hopes that those that have enough don't get any.

One of the arguments banks are making is this “preferred customer comes first” one.

Which is only going to result in the biggest, most well capitalized small and medium-sized enterprises receiving assistance and surviving this.   

Surely, there will be some rare exceptions along the way...likely because they had some preexisting connections with bank execs.  Its almost reminiscent of an IPO, except the public offering is America, Inc., and that means the average middle income investor is going to be totally shut out, late to a party he never knew he hadn’t even been invited to.

Unfortunately, we’re turning a whole generation of risk-taking entrepreneurs into Instacart/Uber drivers who struggle to put 2-3 side jobs together to eke out a living, pay for health insurance, house payments and have enough left over to provide a better life for their families.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/howard-schultz-on-wealth-inequality-and-small-business-133143460.html

Small business loan program should start with a T as in Trillion.

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

28 minutes ago, bmags said:

I mean the problem isn't shake shack got $10 million, it's that so little was earmarked people feel like it's a zero sum amount. Shake shack is closed now. It can't make money. Sure, give it money.

But every small business should also get money. There is so little risk in making the appropriate amount of money available and some getting more than they should compared to making little available and many getting less than they need just in hopes that those that have enough don't get any.

The problem is the biggest boys got to the front of the line. The Shake Shacks by me are open for delivery and carry out. They did nothing illegal, but Shake Shack isn't who this bill was designed  for. I am sure there are more egregious examples than this one though. 

[bmags]

33 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The problem is the biggest boys got to the front of the line. The Shake Shacks by me are open for delivery and carry out. They did nothing illegal, but Shake Shack isn't who this bill was designed  for. I am sure there are more egregious examples than this one though. 

I think it's only a bigger problem though because it's truly an issue of those at the end of the line risk not getting money. If it was just a matter of timing it's not as big of a deal. Basically if they had passed bill with automatic triggers to renew it's fine. But there is scarcity now which makes it ridiculous to see those with much easier access to capital getting it over those that cannot.

[NWINFan]

11 hours ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

 

This image of a nurse silently counter-protesting an anti stay-at-home protest is incredible.

How much you want to bet that USA shirt was made in China?

My god, this woman looks like an idiot.  Of course, she would never protest racism, income disparity, and endless wars, now would she?

[Texsox]

I had a rational discussion with a neighbor whose adult kid with two children is out of work because he works for a "non essential" business as does his wife. The world is a vastly different place if you are still collecting a pay check. And to anyone who remembers what it's like to suddenly be without a job, now realize that no one is hiring because they are all closed. 

Now look at the picture above and analyse the confrontation as being between the getting paid and the not getting paid. You have someone secure in receiving a check and paying for their rent and food bravely stopping someone not getting paid and potentially homeless from working.  It's a strange time to be alive.