COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[greg775]

11 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

Then who do you think has the best chance to beat Trump and currently is in the race.

I think Bernie could have beaten Trump. Not Joe cause of his apparent (possible?) early Alz. issues. He doesn't make sense much of the time. Remember this day when greg predicted Warren or Hillary or even Michelle would be the emergency candidate. BTW I'd vote for a healthy Joe. I kind of like him.

Edited April 26, 2020 by greg775

[bmags]

Another day of 15k+ tests which is awesome news. 2k positives. Seems we’ve officially gotten over testing hump. Two straight days of lowered positive %

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

Can we not turn this thread into something resembling pizza-gate?

What do you mean?

[The Beast]

2 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Playing devil's advocate is not allowed. If you arent against him, you must be with him!!

It is one thing to debate facts, it is entirely different to debate with people who don’t acknowledge facts and redirect to literally one source, a cable network.

[The Beast]

54 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I think Bernie could have beaten Trump. Not Joe cause of his apparent (possible?) early Alz. issues. He doesn't make sense much of the time. Remember this day when greg predicted Warren would be the emergency candidate. BTW I'd vote for a healthy Joe. I kind of like him.

Why do you speak in third person? Why not vote for Joe as he is now and vote for him to give the office to his VP? It is not too far fetched to think about that happening. I can’t see Bernie winning moderates and I doubt Warren becomes the nominee.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Hey Balta, You can't deny (I don't think) that those were two horrific candidates last time and this time? Even worse choices only because God bless him, Biden appears to have mental capacity issues (early Alz?). This isn't just greg watching him lose his train of thought all the time when speaking (did you see his interview with Gore on earth day in which Gore was dumbfounded by Joe's inability to make sense?). I personally feel Warren is going to get the nomination when all is said and done (because of Joe medical issues) and then will probably lose to Trump. Election fraud will be cited (maybe with good reason in this day and age of the Russian/China hacks).

 

Hillary Clinton was a fine candidate if you bothered to look into anything at all about her, but no you couldn't be troubled to. When people like you asked what the worst was that could happen when you didn't vote for the professional woman, well here's your answer.

[Jose Abreu]

30 minutes ago, The Beast said:

. I can’t see Bernie winning moderates and I doubt Warren becomes the nominee.

The whole idea of running out a safe moderate to combat the relatively far-right Republican candidate hasn't really worked though. For a recent example, see 2016. The "electability" factor ends up alienating a large section of the party and perhaps offsets the moderates that are "won". Sanders was polling quite favorably against Trump before he suspended his campaign, or before COVID. Even better than Biden in most regards

 

*Edit: Polling better than Biden before Super Tuesday

Edited April 25, 2020 by Jose Abreu
clarifying

[Dick Allen]

21 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

A serious question from Twitter.

Why are flags not at half mast? Or a week/month of mourning?

WH awaiting confirmation of Kim Jong Uns death.

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

The whole idea of running out a safe moderate to combat the relatively far-right Republican candidate hasn't really worked though. For a recent example, see 2016. The "electability" factor ends up alienating a large section of the party and perhaps offsets the moderates that are "won". Sanders was polling quite favorably against Trump before he suspended his campaign, or before COVID. Even better than Biden in most regards

This is flat-out untrue. Joe Biden was clearly, significantly polling stronger than Sanders. Out of something like 50 polls taken after everyone else was out of the race, I believe there were 0 with Biden showing worse than Sanders. 

Quote

A survey released on March 20 by Emerson College showed Sanders and Biden both ahead of Trump by six points, 53 percent to 47 percent. An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released on March 15 showed Biden with a more commanding lead of 9 points, 52 percent to Trump's 43 percent. Sanders, in that survey, also beat Trump by 4 points, 49 percent to 45 percent.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html same story.

[NWINFan]

5 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

The whole idea of running out a safe moderate to combat the relatively far-right Republican candidate hasn't really worked though. For a recent example, see 2016. The "electability" factor ends up alienating a large section of the party and perhaps offsets the moderates that are "won". Sanders was polling quite favorably against Trump before he suspended his campaign, or before COVID. Even better than Biden in most regards

The Democratic Party is supposed to the more liberal of the two parties, but they don't act like it. They keep thinking they have to talk like Republicans. In 2018, in my state, the Democratic Senator tried to run like some conservative. His campaign ads showed him with Trump. He got his ass kicked. If people want a real Republican, they will vote for one. This Senator hasn't been heard from since, and he is politically dead. Or at least I hope he is. His campaign was a joke.

[Jose Abreu]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

This is flat-out untrue. Joe Biden was clearly, significantly polling stronger than Sanders. Out of something like 50 polls taken after everyone else was out of the race, I believe there were 0 with Biden showing worse than Sanders. 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html same story.

Sorry, I was referring to February polls, before Super Tuesday and before it was clear Biden would be the nominee. There was a point when Sanders was not only winning in delegates, but leading the polls in terms of being the best candidate to beat Trump. I believe Sanders himself cited this in one of the debates, and the fact checks verified it

[bmags]

2018 the dem moderate candidates did quite well.

2016 was a very odd election. 
 

Regardless. Bernie said he would bring out a massive youth vote. He didn’t. He lost his rural support to Biden. He didn’t take more of the Af American vote than last time. He didn’t win over more than half of Warren supporters. He got whooped without Anti-Clinton vote.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

Hey Balta, You can't deny (I don't think) that those were two horrific candidates last time and this time? Even worse choices only because God bless him, Biden appears to have mental capacity issues (early Alz?). This isn't just greg watching him lose his train of thought all the time when speaking (did you see his interview with Gore on earth day in which Gore was dumbfounded by Joe's inability to make sense?). I personally feel Warren is going to get the nomination when all is said and done (because of Joe medical issues) and then will probably lose to Trump. Election fraud will be cited (maybe with good reason in this day and age of the Russian/China hacks).

 

Yet someone who has lied nearly 20,000 times while in the WH and thinks injecting or ingesting disinfectant clearly DOESN’T have any mental degradation because...he’s “rich,” which makes him more worthy or valuable somehow?  

Didn’t we see the exact same trick...four years ago, trying to convince voters that Hillary Clinton was failing physically?

What has Trump done in the in the last 6 weeks that would indicate he shouldn’t be removed by his Cabinet.  He refuses to attend coronavirus task force meetings, but instead just goes on spontaneous riffs in front of worldwide audiences about some latest junk science for a miracle cure that will only serve to get more Americans killed?

It doesn’t bother you that the rest of the world is now watching these daily breakdowns (over science or fighting with reporters) and thinks the US has gone insane?  Do you feel prouder now to be an American?   Are your children better off now than they were four years ago?

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

The whole idea of running out a safe moderate to combat the relatively far-right Republican candidate hasn't really worked though. For a recent example, see 2016. The "electability" factor ends up alienating a large section of the party and perhaps offsets the moderates that are "won". Sanders was polling quite favorably against Trump before he suspended his campaign, or before COVID. Even better than Biden in most regards

 

*Edit: Polling better than Biden before Super Tuesday

Definitely not in Florida (Castro comments), North Carolina, Michigan and Pennsylvania (fracking).

The only state where Sanders was outperforming Biden by about 1% in Wisconsin.

Sanders failed to unite the party after Nevada, continuing a grievance campaign against the establishment.  That 60 Minutes interview was awful.   Instead of exploiting the opportunities to put Clinton (emails) or Biden away, he refrained and got bogged down in philosophical or semantics arguments.  He struggled to control some of the worst social media impulses of followers (my way or the highway mentality.)  While he did make inroads with Hispanics in the SW, he didn’t expand his coalition in any meaningful way over the four years he had the opportunity to improve his 2016 weaknesses.

While my preference would have definitely been for Sanders, and my support for Biden is only slightly higher than HRC, he wasn’t the right person to lead our country together through the greatest collective crisis in a century...the only way something would get done legislatively was by controlling the House AND Senate in 2021-22, leading to Tea Party II and reversals of all those new policies in 2023/24.

And the Senate was never going to break for Sanders in November unless the US completely imploded.

Edited April 25, 2020 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Quote

Meanwhile, calls to New York City’s Poison Control Center for exposure to specific household cleaners and disinfectants increased more than twofold after the President’s comments on Thursday, WNBC New York reported today. Data from the New York Poison Center center revealed that in the 18 hours after Trump’s comments, the Poison Center received 30 exposure calls about disinfectants. Ten involved bleach, 9 were about Lysol, and 11 others regarding other household cleaners. Compared to the same time window last year, there were a total of 13 exposure calls, with 2 involving bleach, but none involving Lysol-type products.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/04/25/calls-to-poison-centers-spike--after-the-presidents-comments-about-using-disinfectants-to-treat-coronavirus/#62e118af1157

And there we go. In NY city alonne he personally got about 20 people to drink stuff in their cleaning supply cabinet. 

[NWINFan]

15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Yet someone who has lied nearly 20,000 times while in the WH and thinks injecting or ingesting disinfectant clearly DOESN’T have any mental degradation because...he’s “rich,” which makes him more worthy or valuable somehow?  

Didn’t we see the exact same trick...four years ago, trying to convince voters that Hillary Clinton was failing physically?

What has Trump done in the in the last 6 weeks that would indicate he shouldn’t be removed by his Cabinet.  He refuses to attend coronavirus task force meetings, but instead just goes on spontaneous riffs in front of worldwide audiences about some latest junk science for a miracle cure that will only serve to get more Americans killed?

It doesn’t bother you that the rest of the world is now watching these daily breakdowns (over science or fighting with reporters) and thinks the US has gone insane?  Do you feel prouder now to be an American?   Are your children better off now than they were four years ago?

We were lucky before. Trump tried to talk us into wars with Iran and North Korea, but they didn't happen. The economy was good when Trump took office and it got better.

But now we really have a crisis, and we see how this president has performed. He really is in over his head, and the country is suffering for it. That's what we get for electing a celebrity who had no real concept how to govern and has shown no willingness to learn. He shouldn't be running for re-election. He has already shown he can't do the job.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/04/25/calls-to-poison-centers-spike--after-the-presidents-comments-about-using-disinfectants-to-treat-coronavirus/#62e118af1157

And there we go. In NY city alonne he personally got about 20 people to drink stuff in their cleaning supply cabinet. 

Here comes correlation is not equal to causation arguments in 3, 2, 1.

I’m going to guess their argument will be so many more people are kept inside by coronavirus, household cleaning incidents were bound to increase by X factor of cases anyway.

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

We were lucky before. Trump tried to talk us into wars with Iran and North Korea, but they didn't happen. The economy was good when Trump took office and it got better.

But now we really have a crisis, and we see how this president has performed. He really is in over his head, and the country is suffering for it. That's what we get for electing a celebrity who had no real concept how to govern and has shown no willingness to learn. He shouldn't be running for re-election. He has already shown he can't do the job.

We did have a couple of quarters of robust growth, but as soon as the boost from the tax cuts wore off, we were back down around 2% GDP growth.  The “robust” job creation we did experience was mostly in the service/gig/retail sector, and was still not higher percentage wise or even in raw numbers compared to the last two years under Obama. 
 

This what my cousin had to say about the situation in the South:

“It is all about Football and the $$$.   Depending on how Trump is behaving, Jones has a good chance.

 

We applied (she runs a non-profit providing senior/elderly services with a thirty year history), like most small businesses and nonprofits, for the SBA PPP and EDIL loans.  We knew from the get go that the big businesses were going be first 

to be funded. They change the rules to fit what will benefit their big buddies and get votes in November.   The working poor are being screwed too.  Georgia opens up the service industry businesses and they call the employees back to work. Guess what, they are having to stay home to take care of their children.

Day Care centers are closed.  What are these characters thinking? No idea when schools will resume.  So, you call your boss to say you can’t return to work and he fires you.  So then he won’t have to pay unemployment. 

 

I can’t believe Trump has a chance in November.  He is self serving, egotistical, and outright rude and disrespectful.”

Edited April 25, 2020 by caulfield12

[pcq]

This is how some play the false equivalency card, pretend to be outraged by both then vote for Trump. It's an old saw with the other usual tricks. 

[YoYoIsMyHero]

 

[caulfield12]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52425825
Looks like antibody/immunity passports are not going to be a thing.

 

Not shocked to see Azar on the way out.   The writing has been on the walls for weeks, and that thing with the “dog breeder” (his Chief of Staff) taking a major role was probably the last nail in the coffin.

Redfield’s likely the next to be axed...for putting out negative interviews and simply the completely botched initial CDC testing rollout in Jan/Feb.

Meanwhile, it’s back to the WHO and China as bogeymen since a GOP governor like Kemp doesn’t work very effectively.

Since Mark Cuban is still talking about running for President, might as well have Bill Gates (huge WHO supporter/funder), too.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-expands-battle-with-world-health-organization-far-beyond-aid-suspension/2020/04/25/72c754e6-856e-11ea-9728-c74380d9d410_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_viruswho528pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-banner-main_viruswho528pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

President Trump and his top aides are working behind the scenes to sideline the World Health Organization on several new fronts as they seek to shift blame for the coronavirus pandemic to the world body, according to U.S. and foreign officials involved in the discussions.

Last week, the president announced a 60-day hold on U.S. money to the WHO, but other steps by his top officials go beyond a temporary funding freeze, raising concerns about the permanent weakening of the organization amid a rapidly spreading crisis.

At the State Department, officials are stripping references to the WHO from coronavirus fact sheets, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has instructed his employees to “cut out the middle man” when it comes to public health initiatives the United States previously supported through the WHO.

Edited April 26, 2020 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

 

 

 

[YoYoIsMyHero]

I still think the US should be funding WHO, but they are really doing a terrible job with this. The event they are designed to handle. The absence of leadership is really making this pandemic feel like something out of the middle ages.

We're lucky the mortality rate is as low as it is. For now.

[greg775]

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Yet someone who has lied nearly 20,000 times while in the WH and thinks injecting or ingesting disinfectant clearly DOESN’T have any mental degradation because...he’s “rich,” which makes him more worthy or valuable somehow?  

Didn’t we see the exact same trick...four years ago, trying to convince voters that Hillary Clinton was failing physically?

What has Trump done in the in the last 6 weeks that would indicate he shouldn’t be removed by his Cabinet.  He refuses to attend coronavirus task force meetings, but instead just goes on spontaneous riffs in front of worldwide audiences about some latest junk science for a miracle cure that will only serve to get more Americans killed?

It doesn’t bother you that the rest of the world is now watching these daily breakdowns (over science or fighting with reporters) and thinks the US has gone insane?  Do you feel prouder now to be an American?   Are your children better off now than they were four years ago?

I respect your post, but I said they were 2 horrific candidates last time, not just one. I'm not standing up for Trump. Caulfield ... what do you think of my theory that Hillary, Warren or Michelle will be the "savior" candidate at the convention with Biden conceding he has some Alz issues? This is a new world. We never thought we'd be locked down for months in our homes. I think I have made a correct prediction here.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

I respect your post, but I said they were 2 horrific candidates last time, not just one. I'm not standing up for Trump. Caulfield ... what do you think of my theory that Hillary, Warren or Michelle will be the "savior" candidate at the convention with Biden conceding he has some Alz issues? This is a new world. We never thought we'd be locked down for months in our homes. I think I have made a correct prediction here.

Is it possible that he doesn’t serve a full term, sure.

Bernie Sanders already had a heart attack, and Trump has himself been under extreme pressure this last month.

If it looks like Trump is still a threat when it comes to decision-making time, there’s going to be more pressure on Michelle Obama to run as VP, especially if Mark Cuban throws his hat in the ring.  The likelihood of either happening has to less than 10%, though.  Of course, that kind of complacency is how we got here in the first place, the Clinton campaign’s arrogance in trying to expand the board instead of protecting WI, MI and PA in the first place.

At this point, the only thing that really matters is which administration (or future one) was is more dangerous to the health and prosperity of the United States...to me, it’s not even a close call.

The fact of the matter is that with Tillerson, Mattis, McMaster, Kelly, Cohn, etc., all gone...the guardrails are completely off and there is just nobody he will listen to other than Ivanka and Jared Kushner.  Eventually, a foreign policy crisis will arise and there will be nobody there with any degree of governmental competence to provide a counterweight to the President’s worst, most aggrieved impulses.