COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[bmags]

today's illinois numbers are annoying to me.

I have to wonder if it is time they make the declaration california did where all can get a test that want them. 

[Pants Rowland]

Been catching up on all these Covid posts and the one thing that still confounds me in this mess is that people still read and respond to Greg. I put him on ignore ages ago but still get snippets when people take his troll bait. His stupidity, whether real or feigned, is beyond baffling.

[StrangeSox]

1 minute ago, Pants Rowland said:

Been catching up on all these Covid posts and the one thing that still confounds me in this mess is that people still read and respond to Greg. I put him on ignore ages ago but still get snippets when people take his troll bait. His stupidity, whether real or feigned, is beyond baffling.

the only way to fix the problem is to get Ignore Herd Immunity, otherwise the posts slip through and reinfect!

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

the only way to fix the problem is to get Ignore Herd Immunity, otherwise the posts slip through and reinfect!

Or we need to all self-isolate from them until we find a Greg vaccine.

[Texsox]

I actually enjoy greg775. I'd order the greg greg greg eggs greg greg and eggs if it was on the menu.  

[The Beast]

5 hours ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

lol numbers are numbers man, this isn't a subjective thing. Sweden's fatality rates is many times higher than the other countries in Scandanavia, and substantially higher than the US rate as well. You can agree or disagree on the approach, but the numbers are there whether you like them or not. It is simply reality.

 

I agree. Certainly it might be the deepest crisis the country has faced in the lifetimes of some younger folks, that is true. But this "ever" thing reflects a very poor understanding of US history.

 

Numbers are numbers but I don’t have to agree with them. I don’t necessarily like staying home but I also don’t have to worry about my older relatives getting sick or a pregnant wife with asthma getting impacted. I just see a bunch of conservative folks saying Coronavirus isn’t a big deal on Facebook and pointing to Sweden instead of showing how to solve the problem in phases, which is what I think re-opening will take.

[NWINFan]

5 hours ago, turnin' two said:

People keep saying this.  It isn't remotely close to true.  This country, has several time, been on the brink of not existing. This kind of hyperbole helps people to dismiss that this is a serious crisis.  

 

This in not hyperbole in the least. Even if things quiet down in the summer, it is predicted that things will get bad again in the fall. Things are tense already and will worsen if we need to shut down again. And it will take more time for the economy to recover.

The people who have dismissing this crisis are the mopes on Fox News. Oh, yes, it is just like the flu. Or Bill O'Reilly saying most of the people dying on their last legs anyway. Or Trump saying he had things under control when he didn't.

There is another thing this crisis has demonstrated: Many can't go through even relatively short periods of unemployment without needing real assistance. There are too many working hard but living paycheck to paycheck because of wage stagnation. And real wages have not increased for decades. 

There is also a great deal of anger out there. Some protestors have guns. They are the minority, but don't think there isn't a real chance for violence. And I can understand that. If you don't have money and there is no end in sight, you're going to get angry.

And we know there won't be a vaccine for another year. Opening up won't solve that problem.

The crisis is exposing the cracks and polarization in our society. No, I am not using hyperbole. That belongs to the people who think that over 60,000 deaths are not a big deal because people are on their last legs anyway.

 

 

[The Beast]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

The economy is a shambles. It will get worse if we don''t open up the cities. We need compromise. We can be shut down no longer. Most people I know have been laid off jobs. This matters as well. Blame the businesses not me and my friends. Some friends are going to be asking for money. They are BROKE. I feel for all healthcare. My brother is a nurse; my niece is a nurse. My buddy is an anasthesiologist. Aside from doctors THE MOST affected by germs.

Re. the haircut. I b**** and moan yet still I've obeyed.

I'm done for now. I'll return to this thread tonight and give it a rest lest I get in trouble.

Greg. Here are some legitimate questions. Do you live alone? What phases would you suggest to re-open everything? Have you tried alternatives to Starbucks coffee, going for a walk or run to get exercise? Have you thought of getting clippers and giving it a go with a haircut? I am trying to understand your circumstances.

[The Beast]

3 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

What is the point of shaming anyone.  A lot of you are ignoring the fact that everyone is being impacted by this...everyone. Some worse than others but wow, some of you aren't willing to empathize with others as well.  

Quin does have a point about healthcare workers though.

[default]

2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Social pressures like shame can be powerful and effective. Better than police enforcement.

Powerful and effective in accomplishing what??  There’s plenty of evidence that shows shaming as an incredibly poor long-term strategy.

It’s also an incredibly lazy strategy.

Edited April 30, 2020 by default

[southsider2k5]

 

[turnin' two]

57 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

This in not hyperbole in the least. Even if things quiet down in the summer, it is predicted that things will get bad again in the fall. Things are tense already and will worsen if we need to shut down again. And it will take more time for the economy to recover.

The people who have dismissing this crisis are the mopes on Fox News. Oh, yes, it is just like the flu. Or Bill O'Reilly saying most of the people dying on their last legs anyway. Or Trump saying he had things under control when he didn't.

There is another thing this crisis has demonstrated: Many can't go through even relatively short periods of unemployment without needing real assistance. There are too many working hard but living paycheck to paycheck because of wage stagnation. And real wages have not increased for decades. 

There is also a great deal of anger out there. Some protestors have guns. They are the minority, but don't think there isn't a real chance for violence. And I can understand that. If you don't have money and there is no end in sight, you're going to get angry.

And we know there won't be a vaccine for another year. Opening up won't solve that problem.

The crisis is exposing the cracks and polarization in our society. No, I am not using hyperbole. That belongs to the people who think that over 60,000 deaths are not a big deal because people are on their last legs anyway.

 

 

Ok, you convinced me.  This is way worse than the Civil War, in which over 600,000 soldiers died.  Additionally at least another 50K civilians died.  By most estimates, over 50K died in 3 days at Gettysburg. 

It is also worse than WWII, in which over 400,000 servicemen lost their lives, and ushered in the nuclear age.  No big deal.  This is way worse.  

It is a more dire moment for the nation than when the British invaded Washington DC and burned the White house and the Capitol.  

We can just ignore the entire revolution as well, it wasn't that serious.  

Try to have a little perspective.  

Edited April 30, 2020 by turnin' two

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 hours ago, greg775 said:

The economy is a shambles. It will get worse if we don''t open up the cities. We need compromise. We can be shut down no longer. Most people I know have been laid off jobs. This matters as well. Blame the businesses not me and my friends. Some friends are going to be asking for money. They are BROKE. I feel for all healthcare. My brother is a nurse; my niece is a nurse. My buddy is an anasthesiologist. Aside from doctors THE MOST affected by germs.

Re. the haircut. I b**** and moan yet still I've obeyed.

I'm done for now. I'll return to this thread tonight and give it a rest lest I get in trouble.

What will opening up places do at 25-50% capacity do if rent and fixed costs remain the same for businesses? Service.Entertainment/Hospitality industry is operating on micro margins as is from 6-12%. You cut revenues in half and there's no profits to be made. 

People aren't going out; large gatherings aren't allowed. You can "reopen" but that will just hurt businesses by voiding any assistance they may have been eligible for. It's a tricky situation all around.

States are reopening because they're going broke. There is no income. unemployment is at record highs and a lot of businesses furloughed people; in some states, that puts the state on the hook. By "reopening" if workers don't return to work if offered, many lose eligibility for Unemployment. If they do return and have to get laid off later, now the company/insurance company is on the hook. States can't operate at losses; in many state constitutions it is against the law. With no federal support for states, they are getting desperate in poor states that are already subsidized by the feds. Say what you will about Illinois, it's broke and dumb but for every dollar it gives to the feds it only gets .70 cents back; which is among the lowest in the nation. SC and Georgia are getting 3-5 to one on the dollars they put into the federal pool.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[StrangeSox]

1 hour ago, default said:

Powerful and effective in accomplishing what??  There’s plenty of evidence that shows shaming as an incredibly poor long-term strategy.

It’s also an incredibly lazy strategy.

Influencing social behavior. Fear of disapproval of your peer group/social connections has long been used as a tool to shape what is or isn't acceptable within a given society or culture. 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by StrangeSox

[caulfield12]

11 hours ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

Source?

 

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/29/florida-medical-examiners-were-releasing-coronavirus-death-data-the-state-made-them-stop/

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Didn't mean it as a slight or insult.  It was intended as a lighthearted jest.  Sorry if I did it in the wrong way.

Fair enough.  Thanks for the clarification.   It’s frustrating when you are trapped for months on end in a foreign country...but can’t go home either.  Or at least going home doesn’t even guarantee being able to see family members (in assisted living).  Or, if you go home, you have to leave your wife and five year old, not knowing if you can ever return.  Then, having to guess if Iowa’s political strategy will wipe out July, and if Trump will insult China to the point that the current flight ban on any foreigner into China might actually last into the fall semester (meaning you lose your job, in all likelihood)...then, on top of that, paying thousands of dollars for intl. flights that used to be $800-1200 typically.   

Edited May 1, 2020 by caulfield12

[Jose Abreu]

2 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Ok, you convinced me.  This is way worse than the Civil War, in which over 600,000 soldiers died.  Additionally at least another 50K civilians died.  By most estimates, over 50K died in 3 days at Gettysburg. 

It is also worse than WWII, in which over 400,000 servicemen lost their lives, and ushered in the nuclear age.  No big deal.  This is way worse.  

It is a more dire moment for the nation than when the British invaded Washington DC and burned the White house and the Capitol.  

We can just ignore the entire revolution as well, it wasn't that serious.  

Try to have a little perspective.  

I don't agree that this is the biggest crisis in American history, but by the time it's all said and done (including a second wave), it's not hard to see more Americans dying from COVID-19 than in the wars you mentioned. Especially if the country re-opens prematurely, which seems likely.

 

Moreover, I'm surprised you only mentioned wars. I think a better example would've been African-American slavery, even if it wasn't a single "moment", but I guess it depends on how you interpret the question.

[StrangeSox]

This is the length states are having to go through to avoid the federal government stealing their supplies.

 

 

[turnin' two]

30 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I don't agree that this is the biggest crisis in American history, but by the time it's all said and done (including a second wave), it's not hard to see more Americans dying from COVID-19 than in the wars you mentioned. Especially if the country re-opens prematurely, which seems likely.

 

Moreover, I'm surprised you only mentioned wars. I think a better example would've been African-American slavery, even if it wasn't a single "moment", but I guess it depends on how you interpret the question.

The wars were really just the easiest, most easily comprehendable examples.  Not only in terms of lives, but in terms of all around damage.  Slavery obviously is as well and is the original sin of the US.  And its culmination was the Civil War.  It is just too bad that the baptism of fire that was the civil war didn't completely purge the traces of that sin from our country.

People were willing to fight and die for the rights of people to own people.  Some citizens of the United States no longer wanted to be part of the United States so they could own people.    Slavery always had the chance to undo the United States.  The country had been on that collision course ever since the revolution.  It wasn't just a crisis for America.  It was a crime against humanity.  That, whether you define it as slavery or as the Civil War, is clearly the biggest crisis to face these United States. 

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, Texsox said:

He's playing to a bigger than we imagine base. I would argue he is the best political strategist in my life time. 

1) 77,000 votes, and those 3 states being taken for granted as they (Mook) foolishly tried to add to the scoreboard in purple and red states, especially ceding WI without a single appearance

2) Hillary Clinton being hated more than any recent history...and sidelining her husband (see Gore, Al, 2000)...they spent a billion dollars and still lost because the majority of Dems didn’t really even like her THAT much

3) He either partners with OANN or starts his own network, having the opportunity/platform to eclipse Rush and throw rocks and grenades from the sidelines, only increasing the value of his brand to that roughly 15% of the country who are fanatical followers.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-allies-eye-buyout-of-one-america-news-network-wsj
 

This was the direction that Bannon and Trump were going in the fall of 2016 when defeated appeared inevitable (Billy Bush week in particular.)

He’s more like the PT Barnum of branding.  Bill Clinton runs rings around him as a pure instinctive political animal.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

24 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

The wars were really just the easiest, most easily comprehendable examples.  Not only in terms of lives, but in terms of all around damage.  Slavery obviously is as well and is the original sin of the US.  And its culmination was the Civil War.  It is just too bad that the baptism of fire that was the civil war didn't completely purge the traces of that sin from our country.

People were willing to fight and die for the rights of people to own people.  Some citizens of the United States no longer wanted to be part of the United States so they could own people.    Slavery always had the chance to undo the United States.  The country had been on that collision course ever since the revolution.  It wasn't just a crisis for America.  It was a crime against humanity.  That, whether you define it as slavery or as the Civil War, is clearly the biggest crisis to face these United States. 

It’s only that big if no vaccine is ever discovered...the country is hit repetitively by a series of pandemics combined with some epic climate change-related disaster that makes it impossible for the country to return to its previous position in the world (the opposite of 1929-1945, in that we would be decaying ala Rome, instead of ascending).  

That would require essentially defaulting on the Federal debt obligations to international Treasury/bond holders and going off the US dollar as the world reserve currency, with states splintering into regional groups like we are already seeing now...and eventually separate blocs within the country or even new countries (see The Man in the High Castle imagining of US split up had we lost WW II), especially California with LA and Silicon Valley/SF.  Would have to kick Peter Thiel out, lol.

But yeah, the Civil War/slavery, Revolutionary War and World War II would all have to rank higher on any reasonable scale.

Even if the “real” death count today is 130,000 versus roughly half that, as many epidemiologists are asserting.

Edited May 1, 2020 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

57 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

This is the length states are having to go through to avoid the federal government stealing their supplies.

 

 

The Federal Government:  This is the States' responsibilities. 

Also, if the states do something,  we will steal it.

[greg775]

9 hours ago, NWINFan said:

How about Trump using the full power of the federal government to help instead of dreaming of some fucking rally with 25,000? Wouldn't that be refreshing for a change?

Can't argue with that. Nice post. On the whole, though, government has disappointed me during the pandemic. Local government as well as Trump. Trump's main problem is his ego is so so so big it clouds everything he does.

[greg775]

8 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

what do you think opening restaurants at 25% capacity is going to accomplish other than make someone file for bankruptcy faster? The way they are opening these states isn't going to generate much. How do you shop at a retail store? You can't touch the clothes unless you are buying them. You can't try them on, and you can't return them. And then people will get sick and all of your sitting at home will be for naught. You have to finish the social distancing job, or it's going to get bad again.

I'm surprised you aren't more worried about the economy, Dick. People I know are. hurting, really hurting. A lot of people believe it or not in America live paycheck to paycheck. And businesses have thrown in the towel early by laying off TONS of people. ... Your line about finishing social distancing makes some sense, but the problem as you know is $$$. Yes opening restaurants will help business and the bottom line. I think it'll help some.

[greg775]

8 hours ago, Texsox said:

We all understand that to feel good you have to look good. In fact it is better to look good than to feel good. I hear Washington actually crossed the Delaware to get a haircut. 

We should have seen this coming when we allowed those power hungry tyrants to paint stripes on the roads to keep cars apart.  I have studied my history, Washington, Jefferson, and those leaders never demanded we stay on one side of a trail. There was freedom. Now they have even put up walls and guardrails to make it even harder to drive where you want. Of course they love making people stay at home. It greatly reduces the amount of money people pay in taxes. 

Greg775 If I thought for a moment you were actually serious I would tone down the comedy. But this is your act. I actually enjoy how you always find a path to a character that amuses. The haircut things is genius. I'm serious here when I say you really should find an improv class. I think you are a natural. 

 

Tex: It's not about trying to look good. Going 3 months so far without a haircut when I'm used to short hair gives me a headache. I don't like it. It's important to note I haven't gotten a haircut despite knowing a spot I can get one. It's not long enough for me to risk getting the virus. Yes I would feel bad, not for myself, but for society if I became part of the problem and "wasted" these first two months of isolation by getting the virus and infecting others. I've done nothing wrong so far.

Your second paragraph: I'm a little surprised being from Texas you think government is handling this well. Your Texas governor has been good through this. The Ks. governor very very bad.

Your third paragraph: I am willing to express my true feelings. Not all people are the same. I am generally conservative and always been law abiding which probably is why I haven't gotten my haircut despite headaches.

I happen to love Texas' handling of the situation so far.

Edited May 1, 2020 by greg775