Kyyle23 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said: I simply don't understand why we don't require masks to be worn. Period. You are close to people - Wear a mask. And I hate wearing the mask, in fact, it is probably the thing that bothers me the most, because with glasses, I walk around my local costco (getting my full supply of groceries for family + my mom) and literally am walking around not able to see half the time (thankfully I know the store). But whatever - In grand scheme, my glasses being fogged is a small price to pay for the fact that by wearing the mask, I dramatically reduce the fact that I get anyone else infected (in the case I am asymptomatic carrier). I think some states want to require it, but then you have in Michigan security guards getting shot in the head after arguing with a customer over wearing one. the biggest problem with all of this is the United states as a whole believes nobody can tell them what to do. And it gets worse every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Texsox said: I'm not convinced the media would do that. In fact I'm certain they would not. And as you point out we're already working with estimates right now, we won't know the actual total for years. So how official is the official count? I believe we can learn from past pandemics and improve our responses and reporting down the road. I believe a "that's the way we've always done it" attitude can be dangerous. Technology has gotten a bit better since the Spanish Flu and other pandemics. But I've never been accused of being a conservative and wanting to keep things like they have always been. When the request is coming from actual experts and it's being echoed around the world, perhaps it'll be worth considering. When it's coming from the White House for transparently political reasons, you're being naive at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: I think some states want to require it, but then you have in Michigan security guards getting shot in the head after arguing with a customer over wearing one. the biggest problem with all of this is the United states as a whole believes nobody can tell them what to do. And it gets worse every day Oklahoma had to rescind it's mask requirements after violent threats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: I think some states want to require it, but then you have in Michigan security guards getting shot in the head after arguing with a customer over wearing one. the biggest problem with all of this is the United states as a whole believes nobody can tell them what to do. And it gets worse every day Would a Michigan security guard have that incident happen if we had a federal mandate? I get it, people are always going to complain. Even if you softly policed it, wouldn't you still be better than the alternative? I get it, I don't like being told what to do, but by wearing a mask, I can freely enter a store and have freedom to get what i need. We have laws in place that require people to wear clothes in stores too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 36 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: According to everyone I know who works in a hospital, this isn't true. You can be on the brink of death from a long battle with cancer but if you test positive for COVID, it's a COVID death. It's the "but-for" method of counting that's used all the damn time. It's not some sort of conspiracy of hospitals across the country (world?) to over-count deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: Would a Michigan security guard have that incident happen if we had a federal mandate? I get it, people are always going to complain. Even if you softly policed it, wouldn't you still be better than the alternative? I get it, I don't like being told what to do, but by wearing a mask, I can freely enter a store and have freedom to get what i need. We have laws in place that require people to wear clothes in stores too. Probably not which is why it would have been nice to have a coherent national plan. If you had consistent messaging coming from the government on social distancing and the need to wear masks to protect yourself and others you would probably have less objections to the requirements and you actually would have an easier time opening up the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 33 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: Yes yes yes yes. Dude the power of this incomplete data is truly remarkable. This is what I’ve been saying the whole time. We don’t know anything. May 13th and we still have absolutely no idea how many people have the virus. We can’t even make educated guesses yet. All we can do is guess based on the number of people who have been sick enough to get tested. That’s it. Is that a chunk of the iceberg or just the Vince Vaughn tip? Who knows. But for some reason we have mortality rates? Like wtf is that? All we know is that it is killing old people and black people disproportionately and it sucks. I’m not sure what else we really KNOW. You've been saying "we already have 50-100m people infected in the US" the whole time. It's been obviously wrong the whole time. Virologists/epidemiologists/infectious disease experts will be the first to admit that there is a lot we don't know about covid-19 yet, and that we're learning more everyday. But they understand more than you give them credit for, and they pretty universally reject the ideas you keep bringing up. Quit pretending that nobody knows anything and that your guesses are as good as the people who have been studying these things for decades. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: Oklahoma had to rescind it's mask requirements after violent threats I might be naive, but the way the message is delivered matters. If the message is delivered and notes that as part of our plans to open up the economy/states in a measured and safe way, we will be requiring social distancing and use of masks within all stores. This is to ensure we can safely re-open our economy and these measures will, in part, help ensure we can continue to maintain a re-opened economy. I'd also highlight the extreme benefit in wearing the mask (in a simple fashion). I think if you had a united message from the president in chief all the way to the states, you would see any protests being an extreme minority (and no matter what you do, someone is going to complain). When the message is mixed and unclear, than I think it leaves/causes more of those challenges. Obviously the science needs to support this, but I see no reason why the science wouldn't support the fact that if everyone wore masks (and if we did it sooner), we probably are much closer to wiping this thing out (earlier use of masks with a more coordinated social distancing effort). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: I might be naive, but the way the message is delivered matters. If the message is delivered and notes that as part of our plans to open up the economy/states in a measured and safe way, we will be requiring social distancing and use of masks within all stores. This is to ensure we can safely re-open our economy and these measures will, in part, help ensure we can continue to maintain a re-opened economy. I'd also highlight the extreme benefit in wearing the mask (in a simple fashion). I think if you had a united message from the president in chief all the way to the states, you would see any protests being an extreme minority (and no matter what you do, someone is going to complain). When the message is mixed and unclear, than I think it leaves/causes more of those challenges. Obviously the science needs to support this, but I see no reason why the science wouldn't support the fact that if everyone wore masks (and if we did it sooner), we probably are much closer to wiping this thing out (earlier use of masks with a more coordinated social distancing effort). I would agree with this, and it's not just the pretty massive failures of the federal government. There's even more minor things like Lightfoot getting her hair cut it JB's wife going to Florida that undercuts the unified message a little bit each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: I think some states want to require it, but then you have in Michigan security guards getting shot in the head after arguing with a customer over wearing one. the biggest problem with all of this is the United states as a whole believes nobody can tell them what to do. And it gets worse every day Its funny. We have spent years hearing about entitled millennials and how they expect everything to be given to them. Yet here we are with Boomers having meltdowns about haircuts being more important than peoples' lives. Gee where do you think the entitled millennials learned it from? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 I was supposed to go the HRD/ASG in July in Los Angeles & my wife was supposed to go Napa 3 weeks later with a girlfriend... and both are essentially confirmed to be cancelled. So sad. Never ever would've predicted such madness 3 months back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: It's the "but-for" method of counting that's used all the damn time. It's not some sort of conspiracy of hospitals across the country (world?) to over-count deaths. I mean if you are dying of cancer, and your ambulance gets crushed by a semi on the way to the hospital they don't say you died of cancer, they said you died from an accident. Why should covid be different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said: Probably not which is why it would have been nice to have a coherent national plan. If you had consistent messaging coming from the government on social distancing and the need to wear masks to protect yourself and others you would probably have less objections to the requirements and you actually would have an easier time opening up the country. This is 100% true. The problem is from day one leaders have been feeding the its just the flu narrative, allowing people to pick a point of view instead of the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 I'm more interested that each death is accounted for, even if that takes two columns instead of one. Reporting that 3,000 people are confirmed dead (via tests) and 1,500 are presumed dead is better than one state reporting a number one way and a different state making up their own rules. I think your concern is more how the data is being used than how it is calculated. Why the fuss over wanting one number when it is an estimate that will only be confirmed years down the road. The under-reporting is a bigger issue IMHO. Your assertion that the world is all doing it the same way isn't accurate. There still differences in how some states report the deaths compared to others. If each state is doing it differently here in the US is it really accurate to say that every country does it the same way? https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200417/how-accurate-are-coronavirus-death-counts It seems like having the same procedure for each state and even each country just makes sense. I'm not really hung up on which method they use. Use the one we've assumed everyone was using, use the one the WH recommends, I don't care. Just have every death noted and every state reporting using the same guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Texsox said: I'm more interested that each death is accounted for, even if that takes two columns instead of one. Reporting that 3,000 people are confirmed dead (via tests) and 1,500 are presumed dead is better than one state reporting a number one way and a different state making up their own rules. I think your concern is more how the data is being used than how it is calculated. Why the fuss over wanting one number when it is an estimate that will only be confirmed years down the road. The under-reporting is a bigger issue IMHO. Your assertion that the world is all doing it the same way isn't accurate. There still differences in how some states report the deaths compared to others. If each state is doing it differently here in the US is it really accurate to say that every country does it the same way? https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200417/how-accurate-are-coronavirus-death-counts It seems like having the same procedure for each state and even each country just makes sense. I'm not really hung up on which method they use. Use the one we've assumed everyone was using, use the one the WH recommends, I don't care. Just have every death noted and every state reporting using the same guidelines. They've recommended the one that shows 0 deaths from it so that you can know they're doing a great job. I'm not sure I'm kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 32 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: Would a Michigan security guard have that incident happen if we had a federal mandate? I get it, people are always going to complain. Even if you softly policed it, wouldn't you still be better than the alternative? I get it, I don't like being told what to do, but by wearing a mask, I can freely enter a store and have freedom to get what i need. We have laws in place that require people to wear clothes in stores too. So you are saying that the people who are protesting and bringing guns to courthouses and rocket launchers to Starbucks will be less likely to protest because it is a federal mandate, instead of a state order? i honestly believe that someone willing to shoot a guy in the head over a face mask would be willing to do it either way. I get that delivering a message in a competent way will help a lot of things(and we probably won't be getting it any time soon), I just don't think that the section of the population that is fighting against all of this will just back down if it becomes a federal mandate, they will just move on to forcing a conflict because FREEDOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I mean if you are dying of cancer, and your ambulance gets crushed by a semi on the way to the hospital they don't say you died of cancer, they said you died from an accident. Why should covid be different? It will depend on how you are using the data. If you are studying the cancer rate you would want to know the person had cancer. If you are studying traffic fatalities, you would want to know about the accident. With technology today, it seems like we could have both. Why work a 2020 problem with 1960s methods and tools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said: So you are saying that the people who are protesting and bringing guns to courthouses and rocket launchers to Starbucks will be less likely to protest because it is a federal mandate, instead of a state order? i honestly believe that someone willing to shoot a guy in the head over a face mask would be willing to do it either way. I get that delivering a message in a competent way will help a lot of things(and we probably won't be getting it any time soon), I just don't think that the section of the population that is fighting against all of this will just back down if it becomes a federal mandate, they will just move on to forcing a conflict because FREEDOM I'm 98% with you. One potential counter is the argument that they get to shop without masks in that state, why not us? Lots of people have a notion that everyone needs to be treated the exact same. Which is different than everyone needs to be treated fairly. But yeah, killers gotta kill. I think that guy would have no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Texsox said: It will depend on how you are using the data. If you are studying the cancer rate you would want to know the person had cancer. If you are studying traffic fatalities, you would want to know about the accident. With technology today, it seems like we could have both. Why work a 2020 problem with 1960s methods and tools? Except we are studying deaths, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Except we are studying deaths, so... For that it doesn't matter. But we all know that the same datum is used for a lot of different applications. Which is why the goal of "just give me one number" doesn't seem important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Quin said: Argue about rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 7 hours ago, Texsox said: Act Now To Get Ahead Of A Mental Health Crisis, Specialists Advise U.S. https://flip.it/A10v5E See, greg has been mentioning mental health (mine) on here for a while now. My positions of needing a haircut and wanting to get a coffee and go to church have been mocked or criticized greatly. All of a sudden mental health which is ALL we cared about in America (open bathrooms for all, etc) suddenly dissipated to nothing. Basically I've been told to "suck it up" and stay home. The article said to ... Connect online: See friends and family by Zoom or phone. Feeling understood and sharing feelings of pain can help alleviate it. Seek teletherapy or group therapy: Hmmmm ... could those include message board support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 7 hours ago, Texsox said: We all know that. You do realize you are helping them. Your ranting makes you 100% complicit and you are an enemy of 'merica. You are trying to make Americans feel bad, to give up, to lose. You are our enemy. But your communist propaganda won't work here. We're strong. We're resilient more than you and your comrades give us credit for. We've banded together and are united in not getting professional hair cuts and all your commie whining and trying to convince us it's wrong has no affect. We're letting our freedom flags fly proudly from sea to shining sea!! Nice post. I'm glad you said you agree about China being an enemy. I get the feeling from PC culture that many Americans think China is OK. I'm so skeptical about China. I'm not anti America at all. I'm pro America. I would love for all of us to work together, with politicians leading the way. Problem is they do things daily to anger me beyond belief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANS Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Has Greg even been to China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Great news today. Tests: 17668 Cases: 1,677 %Pos: 9.5% 5 day avg: 12% positive, 2200 cases/day, 18k tests/day 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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