COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[Jerksticks]

17 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Maybe I'll just go and leave my donation for the past 3 weeks in the back and not attend. Again, it's hard when for the past 25 years you think something is important and fulfilling to do (go to church) and then it's taken away.

I agree, but I think you’d agree that the real shitstorm brewing is unemployment.  People are not taking this seriously enough.  It’s all roses and sunshine right now, but if the restaurant and hotel industries, and basically tourism in general, don’t return within the next two months, there’s going to be total mayhem.  Once all the people who populate those industries stop receiving their little $600 poppers in July...holy shit.  That doesn’t even take into account all the hundreds of thousands of businesses integrated with those industries that may not come back.  
 

Once the $600 goes away, unemployment won’t be enough to control the masses.  That was the whole point of the $600. 

[Balta1701]

17 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

I agree, but I think you’d agree that the real shitstorm brewing is unemployment.  People are not taking this seriously enough.  It’s all roses and sunshine right now, but if the restaurant and hotel industries, and basically tourism in general, don’t return within the next two months, there’s going to be total mayhem.  Once all the people who populate those industries stop receiving their little $600 poppers in July...holy shit.  That doesn’t even take into account all the hundreds of thousands of businesses integrated with those industries that may not come back.  
 

Once the $600 goes away, unemployment won’t be enough to control the masses.  That was the whole point of the $600. 

I don't disagree. But like it or not, I'm not going to a restaurant unless either there is virtually zero transmission in my area or until there's a vaccine. I'm not going to a baseball game without a vaccine. I'm not going on a vacation without a vaccine. I'm not going into Kohl's and trying on clothes in a dressing room without a vaccine or virtually zero transmission, I'm not waiting in a Black Friday line without a vaccine. You can declare the doors are open all you want, and even if I keep my job and my health insurance through this, I'm hunkering down for the next year+. 

This is the logical, rational choice for a very large number of people, particularly since we know that it can do serious damage to a large number of healthy people without killing them. So airlines, restaurants, hotels - there is nothing these things can do right now.

You can't just declare "Things are back to normal" even if you have a low level of transmission in an area, because it would be dumb to behave as though it is. And 50, 75% of people in an area are going to understand - while the other 25% are letting themselves get sick, it's really dumb to go out right now. Can a hotel survive if 75% of its demand vanishes? Can a restaurant? No, obviously not.

Which means...if we want these things back in a year, the only plausible answer is continued government support. 

[southsideirish71]

20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't disagree. But like it or not, I'm not going to a restaurant unless either there is virtually zero transmission in my area or until there's a vaccine. I'm not going to a baseball game without a vaccine. I'm not going on a vacation without a vaccine. I'm not going into Kohl's and trying on clothes in a dressing room without a vaccine or virtually zero transmission, I'm not waiting in a Black Friday line without a vaccine. You can declare the doors are open all you want, and even if I keep my job and my health insurance through this, I'm hunkering down for the next year+. 

 This is the logical, rational choice for a very large number of people, particularly since we know that it can do serious damage to a large number of healthy people without killing them. So airlines, restaurants, hotels - there is nothing these things can do right now.

You can't just declare "Things are back to normal" even if you have a low level of transmission in an area, because it would be dumb to behave as though it is. And 50, 75% of people in an area are going to understand - while the other 25% are letting themselves get sick, it's really dumb to go out right now. Can a hotel survive if 75% of its demand vanishes? Can a restaurant? No, obviously not.

Which means...if we want these things back in a year, the only plausible answer is continued government support. 

So what happens if a viable vaccine takes 10 years to develop.  Do you re-evaluate your risk taking then.  Or are you going to hunker down and live in a cave for 10 years.  While I am hopeful of the existing vaccine research this is a new virus and its not a guarantee that it will be successful.  I mean this is the only problem with waiting for a cure.    I am socially distancing and doing my part.  My job is already 100 percent remote and I am part of most companies critical infrastructure.  A lot of people are not.  My neighbors are acting like its spring break.  One of them had a bonfire in his front yard and I counted over 50 people drinking and not socially distancing.  I don't see how this is going to be sustainable especially here were we really only have a few months of golden weather.  I think is all going to become bedlam in the next few weeks.  Next Saturday is going to be 80+.   

[Balta1701]

31 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

So what happens if a viable vaccine takes 10 years to develop.  Do you re-evaluate your risk taking then.  Or are you going to hunker down and live in a cave for 10 years.  While I am hopeful of the existing vaccine research this is a new virus and its not a guarantee that it will be successful.  I mean this is the only problem with waiting for a cure.    I am socially distancing and doing my part.  My job is already 100 percent remote and I am part of most companies critical infrastructure.  A lot of people are not.  My neighbors are acting like its spring break.  One of them had a bonfire in his front yard and I counted over 50 people drinking and not socially distancing.  I don't see how this is going to be sustainable especially here were we really only have a few months of golden weather.  I think is all going to become bedlam in the next few weeks.  Next Saturday is going to be 80+.   

If it takes 10 years to develop a vaccine, then first of all I'll be totally amazed that I haven't gotten it by that point as easily as it spreads and given my line of work involves large groups of people. There's lots of ways that can go, but in the hypothetical that we just let 2000 people get it per day in Texas for the next 10 years, that leaves a large portion of the state with no immunity and continual, ongoing transmission all around. In that case, yeah that would be the last time I dine in at a restaurant until it's over, and I'll have to get used to shopping for all my clothes online. That's the world of a high-risk, immune compromised person until this is over.

We've seen from some countries (New Zealand) that it is possible to create a setting that would make me feel safe enough to go out, but as long as there are 1000+ cases per day in this state, nope. There's lots of other ways it could go; you could get transmission down to ~0, you could have it burn through 75% of the state, kill a half million people, and then have it mostly go away because of herd immunity, but strike that balance and yeah, I'll be nervous every time I shop until this is over. Maybe, if I could afford it, in a few years I'd rent an RV and tour some national parks? 

And yeah, you see videos of restaurants and bars here and 1-2 people out of 50 in masks. 25% wearing  them in the grocery store. Big groups of kids playing outdoors or recording Tiktok videos. This state has declared it to be over and commanded the virus to listen, and we're hitting new highs in cases per day quite regularly now. Outdoors maybe we have a shot, it does seem fair to say that transmission chances outdoors are low when there's sunlight and wind to disperse things, but anything indoors? 

[pcq]

42 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't disagree. But like it or not, I'm not going to a restaurant unless either there is virtually zero transmission in my area or until there's a vaccine. I'm not going to a baseball game without a vaccine. I'm not going on a vacation without a vaccine. I'm not going into Kohl's and trying on clothes in a dressing room without a vaccine or virtually zero transmission, I'm not waiting in a Black Friday line without a vaccine. You can declare the doors are open all you want, and even if I keep my job and my health insurance through this, I'm hunkering down for the next year+. 

This is the logical, rational choice for a very large number of people, particularly since we know that it can do serious damage to a large number of healthy people without killing them. So airlines, restaurants, hotels - there is nothing these things can do right now.

You can't just declare "Things are back to normal" even if you have a low level of transmission in an area, because it would be dumb to behave as though it is. And 50, 75% of people in an area are going to understand - while the other 25% are letting themselves get sick, it's really dumb to go out right now. Can a hotel survive if 75% of its demand vanishes? Can a restaurant? No, obviously not.

Which means...if we want these things back in a year, the only plausible answer is continued government support. 

I don't see a reliable vaccine for a while. Or we could see one that is not reliable.

[NWINFan]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

I agree, but I think you’d agree that the real shitstorm brewing is unemployment.  People are not taking this seriously enough.  It’s all roses and sunshine right now, but if the restaurant and hotel industries, and basically tourism in general, don’t return within the next two months, there’s going to be total mayhem.  Once all the people who populate those industries stop receiving their little $600 poppers in July...holy shit.  That doesn’t even take into account all the hundreds of thousands of businesses integrated with those industries that may not come back.  
 

Once the $600 goes away, unemployment won’t be enough to control the masses.  That was the whole point of the $600. 

While I don't have sympathy for people not wearing masks, I have plenty sympathy for people up against it economics-wise. But I don't see how pressuring workers to return to infested meat packing plants is the answer. Normal economic policy is not the answer. I don't know what the answer is, but we are not coming close to getting answers from Washington. These problems are huge, and the people there are small-minded.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, pcq said:

I don't see a reliable vaccine for a while. Or we could see one that is not reliable.

We've never, ever seen biological science mobilizing like it is right now. The US government is in the way of course, and there's going to be issues like "do we have enough glass to hold the vaccines as they're distributed" that the government should be dealing with but it isn't, but with this many candidates it seems likely that we'll get there eventually. I just read a promising paper saying that the immune system T-Cell response to this virus is strong enough that long-term immunity may be possible: 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/t-cells-found-covid-19-patients-bode-well-long-term-immunity

With the work being done on this thing, and the ways people are trying to shortcut development, I'm genuinely hopeful that there can be one available before the 12 month mark is hit, but if I were a policymaker I'd be asking how we can deal with this for 18 months. 

[bmags]

Another good day for IL.

20k+ tests, 1700 cases, 8.5% positive rate.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, greg775 said:

Two things: 1.) Trump is a TV personality, an entitled rich guy who has always been about staying rich and keeping wealthy, a bad president. I'm not sure what we're allowed to say about people before getting banned here so I'll stop there.

2.) To show how we all believe what we believe, you wrote: "unfortunately people who supposedly have no jobs and have no money and are about to commit suicide, jubilantly packed bars and restaurants in Wisconsin." How unfair a sentence was that? Supposedly?? I know tons of people fired or laid off recently. The unemployment numbers, if they are real, are staggering.

A lot of people are suicidal and hurting and have nothing to do with the bargoers. Just trying to show you how we all have our takes and some look unfair to people on the other side.

We aren't "crazy." I think it's a fascinating study in human behavior and the brain. Look at me. It's 1:38 p.m. Sunday and because of all the articles and TV snippets I've caught and dictatorial slow-moving actions by government in Kansas, yes I'm scared to go to church at 5 p.m. today. It's open at 5 p.m. to 70 people and I've been brainwashed (that's probably not the right word) into utter fear (nine weeks of isolation will scramble parts of your brain, Dick Allen). I think I'm going to go and make my donation in the back of the church and see how I feel when I get there. 

Finally ... your comment about science. That's part of the problem. Some of us have family members in medical field and some of us know people who know people who state the corona problem is not that bad and reopening should be done. So good people, ones obeying the rules so far (I've broken no rules and done nothing risky til perhaps going to church today) have their brains muddled and torn by all the different chatter. We don't necessarily believe the science. If that makes us despicable, well there's probably going to be a Civil War in which we could pay for our doubts about the science here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/nyregion/new-york-city-doctor-suicide-coronavirus.html
But what about the top doctors in their fields who are overwhelmed when the virus runs out of control and only triage is possible...which is already the case in numerous rural community hospitals like Gallup, NM?

Being in KS, one has to be aware of Native American populations getting sick, migrant farmworkers and meat processing workers getting sick, military bases (Ft. Riley), homeless veterans, etc.  

 

 

https://www.kcur.org/health/2020-04-06/leawood-kansas-group-seeks-emergency-support-for-struggling-rural-hospitals

Rural hospitals face “catastrophic cash shortages” brought on by the COVID-19 crisis and need congressional action to save them, according to a Leawood, Kansas, advocacy group that represents hundreds of rural hospitals.

In a letter Monday addressed to the leaders of the U.S. House and Senate, the National Rural Health Association asks that 20% of the $100 billion in funding for hospitals in the CARES Act, the $2 trillion coronavirus response bill passed by Congress last month, be set aside for rural providers.  

It also asks Congress to accelerate Medicare payments, ensure that rural hospitals can access the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) and pass legislation to provide additional funding for rural health care providers. The PPP, also part of the CARES Act, is a $350 billion program aimed at enabling small businesses to keep current workers or rehire those who were laid off.

“The loss of revenue over the last few weeks due to the inability to provide non-emergency care is destabilizing core health services in rural America,” the letter states.

Rural hospitals were hurting before the pandemic, with about half of them posting financial losses. In the last 10 years, 128 rural hospitals have shuttered, including six in Kansas and seven in Missouri, according to the University of North Carolina’s Rural Health Research Program.

Just last month, Sumner Community Hospital in Wellington, Kansas, abruptly closed. The owner of the hospital, Kansas City-based RHG Consolidated, blamed a revenue shortfall and lack of patient demand. The closest hospital is about 25 miles away, in Winfield, Kansas.

[greg775]

I am at the park in Lawrence, Ks., under the gazebo surfing and I thought I'd update you on my Sunday dilemma and what I've observed today.

-- Texted my brother the nurse in Chicago and told him I was thinking of going to 5 p.m. Mass (70 people max, hand cleanser walking in, three people per row every fourth row, no singing, maximum time had to be 45 mins). I told brother I was getting scared and didnt know if I should go. He said, "GO!" So I went.

-- On the way there I drove thru U of Kansas campus as it's a shortcut to church. As I hit the business building area, there were 6 young women with cap and gown on with adults dressed up. Today would have been graduation day at KU. I honked my horn loudly 3-4 times, gave a thumbs up, and the girls smiled, screamed and waved. I must confess I teared up as college seniors didn't get their graduation. These families obviously did this on their own. KU is SHUT DOWN baby! None of the women or adults had masks on.

-- Got to church and walking up I noticed across the street a party (prolly a makeshift graduation party) of at least 50 people on a lawn. Nobody had masks. Everybody had beer. Typical graduation type party: kids and adults, no masks.

-- Went up to door of church, was mobbed by Knights of Columbus guys putting soap on my hands and making me sign in. They read me the rules. I had my mask on as did they of course. I counted 14 people at Mass. Nobody was seated anywhere near me of course. The Mass took 30 minutes; the visiting priest was from anothe country and I couldn't understand a word he said. They brought in some priests to help out and he is one of them. No hard feelings, I appreciate his service; I just couldn't understand his broken English.

-- Mass ended, I left and got drive through coffee and am at the park. On driving to the park I drove downtown Lawrence and I must say it was pretty crowded for the first time in a long time (we open up Monday). The ice cream store which had one person outside taking orders with the line of customers outside, had a long line with a worker in a mask. Not one person in the line had a mask.

CONCLUSION OF MY DAY: Glad I went to church. If I get the virus from that it was meant to be. I wasn't near anybody. It was good to be back in there. .... I feel like people don't want to wear masks. Get mad all you want. This is my observation. ... Finally I think one of the reasons people are saying F You to lockdown and masks is they don't trust the scientists who are all over TV (the naysayers claim the figures have been off; dont shoot the messenger), they don't approve of power hungry politicians who IN SOME CASES appear too bossy and in love with power and making decisions for political reasons; they are not as scared as before of contracting the virus (they think if they get it  it'll be like any other virus). ... There also is an eerieness about being outside, almost like it will be in the aftermath of a nuclear bomb if and when we ever get bombed. Just a weird vibe.

Now would a troll give u an update like this? I am a concerned citizen and good person who has obeyed all rules. I am not a troll, just arguably a strange person. Peace. Out. (Episode 9 and 10 baby, enjoy Jordan).

Edited May 18, 2020 by greg775

[Jerksticks]

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't disagree. But like it or not, I'm not going to a restaurant unless either there is virtually zero transmission in my area or until there's a vaccine. I'm not going to a baseball game without a vaccine. I'm not going on a vacation without a vaccine. I'm not going into Kohl's and trying on clothes in a dressing room without a vaccine or virtually zero transmission, I'm not waiting in a Black Friday line without a vaccine. You can declare the doors are open all you want, and even if I keep my job and my health insurance through this, I'm hunkering down for the next year+. 

This is the logical, rational choice for a very large number of people, particularly since we know that it can do serious damage to a large number of healthy people without killing them. So airlines, restaurants, hotels - there is nothing these things can do right now.

You can't just declare "Things are back to normal" even if you have a low level of transmission in an area, because it would be dumb to behave as though it is. And 50, 75% of people in an area are going to understand - while the other 25% are letting themselves get sick, it's really dumb to go out right now. Can a hotel survive if 75% of its demand vanishes? Can a restaurant? No, obviously not.

Which means...if we want these things back in a year, the only plausible answer is continued government support. 

Exactly.  Just because something is open doesn’t mean there will be participation whatsoever.  
 

Who the hell wants to go to a bar, restaurant, plane, train, vacation right now...basically anywhere that isn’t home or the Covid-infested grocery stores.  
 

There’s a ticking nuclear economic missile flying towards us and opening doesn’t stop it.  
 

Just think of all the restaurant pubs bars where some guy or group of people open it up and call it “John’s or Gametime”, or whatever the fuck they think makes it novel because it has TVs and serves booze.  Are those places going to make it?  Rent could be 5-20k alone for some of these places.  It’s a shitshow.  
 

im really scared for when people stop getting that $600.  Maybe it won’t be as bad as I’m saying?
 

I feel like the only things that will stop it are a vaccine or some proof that most people have already been exposed to the virus.  

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I am at the park in Lawrence, Ks., under the gazebo surfing and I thought I'd update you on my Sunday dilemma and what I've observed today.

-- Texted my brother the nurse in Chicago and told him I was thinking of going to 5 p.m. Mass (70 people max, hand cleanser walking in, three people per row every fourth row, no singing, maximum time had to be 45 mins). I told brother I was getting scared and didnt know if I should go. He said, "GO!" So I went.

-- On the way there I drove thru U of Kansas campus as it's a shortcut to church. As I hit the business building area, there were 6 young women with cap and gown on with adults dressed up. Today would have been graduation day at KU. I honked my horn loudly 3-4 times, gave a thumbs up, and the girls smiled, screamed and waved. I must confess I teared up as college seniors didn't get their graduation. These families obviously did this on their own. KU is SHUT DOWN baby! None of the women or adults had masks on.

-- Got to church and walking up I noticed across the street a party (prolly a makeshift graduation party) of at least 50 people on a lawn. Nobody had masks. Everybody had beer. Typical graduation type party: kids and adults, no masks.

-- Went up to door of church, was mobbed by Knights of Columbus guys putting soap on my hands and making me sign in. They read me the rules. I had my mask on as did they of course. I counted 14 people at Mass. Nobody was seated anywhere near me of course. The Mass took 30 minutes; the visiting priest was from anothe country and I couldn't understand a word he said. They brought in some priests to help out and he is one of them. No hard feelings, I appreciate his service; I just couldn't understand his broken English.

-- Mass ended, I left and got drive through coffee and am at the park. On driving to the park I drove downtown Lawrence and I must say it was pretty crowded for the first time in a long time (we open up Monday). The ice cream store which had one person outside taking orders with the line of customers outside, had a long line with a worker in a mask. Not one person in the line had a mask.

CONCLUSION OF MY DAY: Glad I went to church. If I get the virus from that it was meant to be. I wasn't near anybody. It was good to be back in there. .... I feel like people don't want to wear masks. Get mad all you want. This is my observation. ... Finally I think one of the reasons people are saying F You to lockdown and masks is they don't trust the scientists who are all over TV (the naysayers claim the figures have been off; dont shoot the messenger), they don't approve of power hungry politicians who IN SOME CASES appear too bossy and in love with power and making decisions for political reasons; they are not as scared as before of contracting the virus (they think if they get it  it'll be like any other virus). ... There also is an eerieness about being outside, almost like it will be in the aftermath of a nuclear bomb if and when we ever get bombed. Just a weird vibe.

Now would a troll give u an update like this? I am a concerned citizen and good person who has obeyed all rules. I am not a troll, just arguably a strange person. Peace. Out. (Episode 9 and 10 baby, enjoy Jordan).

As long as nobody that gets sick blames their governor for opening up too quickly and providing them a false sense of security...as long as nobody who goes outside without a mask expects to get priority treatment in a hospital or have their medical expenses reimbursed when they are on a ventilator or have a lifelong debilitating lung condition as a result.

It has been pointed out hundreds of times in this thread already...but why do we even need a president if he’s deferring to state governors on every single decision?   Whatever accidentally goes well, he will attempt to take credit for (since he’s just going on gut instinct and the fact an uncle went to MIT) and whatever goes wrong, it gets blamed on the governors, right?

If Trump didn’t care more about reelection (the definition of power hungry), he would have simply declared in February or March that the health of the American people will always be my priority, first and foremost.  That this crisis is a health care crisis, and that only by addressing that first will the economy start to rebound for all Americans.   We all know the answer.

Regardless of the individual actions of politicians, you can’t force now people to spend when every bone in their body says they should save or conserve resources.  It won’t make the majority of people feel safe to return to church, to sports events, to concerts, to fly, to stay in hotels, to malls, to go to a movie...to even go out to eat. As we have now learned, businesses run on just 15-25% margins.  Many will not survive, no matter how many want to go out and enjoy the summer.  You just can’t wish or hope or con or brand your way through a pandemic.   Other than food prices, there’s a tremendous amount of deflationary pressure in the economy.   Yet our president wants negative interest rates for the first time in American history.  He’s just used to borrowing money and not paying it back.  But Americans over 60 still value their lives, they care about the future cost of living, their drugs...and especially the world being left behind for their grandchildren.   

As it turns out, intentionally dividing the country has now made it virtually impossible to get everyone back on the same page...and that is ultimately a failure in leadership.   It’s one thing to win an election, it’s quite another to successfully govern it.

[Kyyle23]

Drowning in my own fluids to do something that can be done at home 

 

[Kyyle23]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/17/us/covid-19-mothers-day-church-exposure/index.html

i bet all these people are glad they went 

[turnin' two]

Just to be Devil's Advocate...

 

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-US&mid=%2Fm%2F0npz6&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

 

58 confirmed cases in Douglas County, Kansas.

You can probably behave a little differently in that situation and still be relatively safe, at least compared to somewhere like Cook Co., IL.

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by turnin' two

[greg775]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

As long as nobody that gets sick blames their governor for opening up too quickly and providing them a false sense of security...as long as nobody who goes outside without a mask expects to get priority treatment in a hospital or have their medical expenses reimbursed when they are on a ventilator or have a lifelong debilitating lung condition as a result.

It has been pointed out hundreds of times in this thread already...but why do we even need a president if he’s deferring to state governors on every single decision?   Whatever accidentally goes well, he will attempt to take credit for (since he’s just going on gut instinct and the fact an uncle went to MIT) and whatever goes wrong, it gets blamed on the governors, right?

If Trump didn’t care more about reelection (the definition of power hungry), he would have simply declared in February or March that the health of the American people will always be my priority, first and foremost.  That this crisis is a health care crisis, and that only by addressing that first will the economy start to rebound for all Americans.   We all know the answer.

Regardless of the individual actions of politicians, you can’t force now people to spend when every bone in their body says they should save or conserve resources.  It won’t make the majority of people feel safe to return to church, to sports events, to concerts, to fly, to stay in hotels, to malls, to go to a movie...to even go out to eat. As we have now learned, businesses run on just 15-25% margins.  Many will not survive, no matter how many want to go out and enjoy the summer.  You just can’t wish or hope or con or brand your way through a pandemic.   Other than food prices, there’s a tremendous amount of deflationary pressure in the economy.   Yet our president wants negative interest rates for the first time in American history.  He’s just used to borrowing money and not paying it back.  But Americans over 60 still value their lives, they care about the future cost of living, their drugs...and especially the world being left behind for their grandchildren.   

As it turns out, intentionally dividing the country has now made it virtually impossible to get everyone back on the same page...and that is ultimately a failure in leadership.   It’s one thing to win an election, it’s quite another to successfully govern it.

Nice post, Caulfield. You da man. I read it all and liked it. I also dislike Trump for reasons I've written before (I know you read me so you know my stance). However (oops, this is where I get lumped in with Trump lovers and FOX viewers) I wish you'd "consider" blaming some of these governors as well.

I dare folks to read this and comment and at least consider this guy's concerns. How bout the governors who gladly accept churches raising money for starving people and donating food, but won't work with them on opening for church services. Oh, it's fine they go deliver stuff and break social distancing rules, but work with them on re-opening? Nah.   I respect u Caulfield. Hope u stay comfortable as can be over in China, sir. https://www.peterhaas.org/is-the-cure-killing-us-how-history-can-help-us-rethink-our-covid-response/?fbclid=IwAR0LOIjqwzH5pFdlfMWChr5TodJZerNcBGiBni0damrZY6GP2-zvbcMx04o

[greg775]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/17/us/covid-19-mothers-day-church-exposure/index.html

i bet all these people are glad they went 

Yeah, I do hope desperately I don't get it from going to church. But I did have a mask, did consult my brother the nurse, was not near anybody in the church. And it did extend my streak of obeying the dictatorial governor who has allowed this behavior of going to church.

I did however accept communion from the priest's hand to my hand. Scary but like I said if 14 people in a church cause my death, whatever, it will be unfortunate for sure.

I figure it can't be worse than getting a coffee at the drive through where I could be infected or at the store shopping once a week. I've said I could get it and be dead in two weeks. I sure hope not, though.

Reading your response makes me think about sporting events. No way in hell fans will be allowed. Just look at your response to your link. Many people will think like you and probably be willing to riot in front of stadiums to prevent a significant number of fans from attending games and infecting others.

Edited May 18, 2020 by greg775

[greg775]

1 hour ago, turnin' two said:

Just to be Devil's Advocate...

 

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-US&mid=%2Fm%2F0npz6&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

 

58 confirmed cases in Douglas County, Kansas.

You can probably behave a little differently in that situation and still be relatively safe, at least compared to somewhere like Cook Co., IL.

 

I am from Cook County Ill. Born in Christ hospital. Best wishes to the Cook County folks.

[tray]

9 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

the real shitstorm brewing is unemployment

That shitstorm is the easiest one to resolve.  The Fed should print another shitload of money, send out another round of Stimulus checks, and fund States so they can cover massive unemployment claims. Then start opening businesses as each State's Covid-19 benchmarks are met and continue to require social distancing, masks, and the prohibition of mass gatherings.

There was an opportunity to demonstrate leadership during this crisis.  Some have taken responsibility for it and  risen to the occasion.

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by tray

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Nice post, Caulfield. You da man. I read it all and liked it. I also dislike Trump for reasons I've written before (I know you read me so you know my stance). However (oops, this is where I get lumped in with Trump lovers and FOX viewers) I wish you'd "consider" blaming some of these governors as well.

I dare folks to read this and comment and at least consider this guy's concerns. How bout the governors who gladly accept churches raising money for starving people and donating food, but won't work with them on opening for church services. Oh, it's fine they go deliver stuff and break social distancing rules, but work with them on re-opening? Nah.   I respect u Caulfield. Hope u stay comfortable as can be over in China, sir. https://www.peterhaas.org/is-the-cure-killing-us-how-history-can-help-us-rethink-our-covid-response/?fbclid=IwAR0LOIjqwzH5pFdlfMWChr5TodJZerNcBGiBni0damrZY6GP2-zvbcMx04o

Throughout the Gospels, you can find Jesus teaching on the characteristics of His Kingdom people as they reflect the character of God in the world. The Church was never about brick and mortar. It was always greater than that. It was about a way of being in the world.

Jesus tells Peter he is the rock of the Church. He affirms His disciple Peter’s faith and character, and says that he will be the foundation of the Kingdom community as it grows.

Jesus isn’t hiring Peter—a fisherman by trade—as a subcontractor to erect a building with a steeple. He only notes Peter’s devotion, and tells him to continue the Kingdom work he’d already begun. He is to steward the people of God: no building campaign, no weekly services.

https://relevantmagazine.com/god/remember-bible-never-mentions-building-called-church/

 

Very simple, Greg,  Church and community are more than a building.   The answer would be to go where the people are most in need, to help in whatever way you can, as long as you’re not endangering yourself or others.  For some, it might mean an online donation, for others, it’s getting actively involved through Habitat for Humanity projects.  Faith without works is dead.   
 

All that said, I vehemently disagree with going after conservative churches over their non profit status (especially fundamentalist or charismatic churches), but also disagree just as strongly with the idea that every single worshipper should be coached how to vote instead of thinking for themselves.   For every argument about abortion, there’s one just as compelling about the death penalty or peace and social justice issues that are at the heart of the New Testament.

 
To summarize:
“I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”    The prosperity or Trump Gospels don’t really make a compelling argument that the GOP is on the right side of the argument at the moment.   Then again, I must have received a different lesson from 18 years of Catholic catechism.

[tray]

I vehemently disagree with going after conservative churches over their non profit status

I don't for several reasons but I am going to heed Kyle's admonitions to stay on topic since we are straying a bit here.

Suffice it for me to admit that  I prefer  public schools (over private or charter schools)  for big city (Chicago) neighborhoods and I am something of an agnostic non-church goer.  That is enough of a clue as to what my positions would be on that.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by tray

[bmags]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-18/vaccine-from-moderna-shows-early-signs-of-viral-immune-response?sref=vuYGislZ

Nice hopeful news but info from pharma CEOs on early results will be overly optimistic (and even if it wasn't there is so much still left to do).

But better than "the results were trash"

[NWINFan]

Caulfield is really right about one thing: Winning elections is one thing, actually governing is another. The media swooned about Trump and his campaign strategy, but didn't stop to think if he could govern. And at this point, we needed the government to truly step forward and it didn't.

Trump isn't the only one. Too many worry about consolidating and holding onto power. Then a crisis like this happens, and they're still playing politics. Meanwhile, people continue to die.

[hogan873]

A relative of mine (by marriage) said the other day that he doesn't think the virus is real because be doesn't know anyone who has it.  This is unfortunately how some people think, including those in the government.  And many of these people won't believe it until it happens to them or someone close to them...and maybe even then they won't believe.  It's a shame that something as serious a global pandemic turns political.

[hogan873]

4 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Caulfield is really right about one thing: Winning elections is one thing, actually governing is another. The media swooned about Trump and his campaign strategy, but didn't stop to think if he could govern. And at this point, we needed the government to truly step forward and it didn't.

Trump isn't the only one. Too many worry about consolidating and holding onto power. Then a crisis like this happens, and they're still playing politics. Meanwhile, people continue to die.

The response, or lack thereof, to the pandemic is clear evidence why you don't elect someone because he speaks his mind.