COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

I'd be shocked if IDPH's school guidelines are just "back to normal, plus masks"

 

I posted Wisconsin's guidelines on the last page. I'd expect something similar. The exact implementation is going to vary widely district to district.

I think an important takeaway from the taipei and japan metros is talking, also airplanes themselves. I really wish chicago would have promoted being quiet on the train cars. Low-hanging fruit like that I don't know why they avoid it. What's the worst that can happen advocating that?

So lunch time seems like a particularly dangerous time, and illinois should seriously consider suspending PE requirements.

But there's ways around that. Cut lunch time in half, half half as many students at a time to eat spread apart for one part of lunch and then move to gymnasium or something for study.

And hopefully with classes can add some plastic protection at ends of desks.

I'd also hope they'll consider delaying school until the second week of september where air conditioning would be less necessary.

[StrangeSox]

2 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

The last semester of education was a joke.  They might as well not have school if this is what its going to be.  My son is taking a bunch of AP classes including Calc, Physics and Robotics.  That will be nearly useless if its a zoom once every few days with a bunch of home work is the schedule just like last semester.  The pass/fail shit is stupid as well because it doesnt help those trying to get academic scholarships when their GPA and all the hard work they have put in gets neutered by randomness.    High School is a sprint to college.  At this point if they close down school again this fall.  I will just pick up and move to somewhere where my kids can actually get an education.  Not glorified babysitting service where the teacher gets to check in every few days.   They are not ready nor will they be for a online curriculum.  

I 100% agree that even in the best of times, fully online education is a joke compared to in-person instruction. When it was as ad hoc as it was this spring, it's even less useful.

I'm guess I'm just saying our menu of options is pretty bad.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

I 100% agree that even in the best of times, fully online education is a joke compared to in-person instruction. When it was as ad hoc as it was this spring, it's even less useful.

I'm guess I'm just saying our menu of options is pretty bad.

 

9 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

Oh there absolutely need to be safety measures. When I said open up 100%, that was not supposed to mean "go back to 100% exactly the way things were". I just meant, all kids going to school. Clearly there will need to be mask rules, lots of disinfecting of surfaces more often, spacing, avoiding the all-school gatherings and the like, a temporary reduction or removal of certain extra-curriculars that have higher risk, etc. To wit...

 

Yes, in fact the state's school board has already made some recommendations to IDPH, along with saying they think schools should open barring a new and significant outbreak. IDPH will supposedly issue their detailed guidance in the next couple weeks.

 

I think you can probably have schools open in a state like Illinois that has been responsible enough, but you're going to have to treat them almost like hospitals to make it work and I'm not sure that anyone's prepared for the resources it will take to make that happen. 

2 additional points though. Texas, Florida, and Arizona among others aren't going to have a choice, they've created monstrous outbreaks that are going to keep growing the next few weeks...and then party on the 4th of July everyone!

And second...Colleges are going to be a nightmare. Those students seem to spread much more rapidly than people a few years younger, and we're already seeing concentrated outbreaks in college areas with only a handful of students around. 

[ron883]

14 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think an important takeaway from the taipei and japan metros is talking, also airplanes themselves. I really wish chicago would have promoted being quiet on the train cars. Low-hanging fruit like that I don't know why they avoid it. What's the worst that can happen advocating that?

So lunch time seems like a particularly dangerous time, and illinois should seriously consider suspending PE requirements.

But there's ways around that. Cut lunch time in half, half half as many students at a time to eat spread apart for one part of lunch and then move to gymnasium or something for study.

And hopefully with classes can add some plastic protection at ends of desks.

I'd also hope they'll consider delaying school until the second week of september where air conditioning would be less necessary.

Nobody will listen. Nobody with authority rides on the El train cars. You are lucky if you get a train car that doesn't have a homeless person sleeping on it. There is no way they can or will enforce a no talking policy.

[Soxbadger]

24 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Nobody will listen. Nobody with authority rides on the El train cars. You are lucky if you get a train car that doesn't have a homeless person sleeping on it. There is no way they can or will enforce a no talking policy.

Some people would listen. Contrary to your belief, some people actually want to help out and are willing to make small sacrifices for the good of everyone.

 

[StrangeSox]

 

[bmags]

45 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Nobody will listen. Nobody with authority rides on the El train cars. You are lucky if you get a train car that doesn't have a homeless person sleeping on it. There is no way they can or will enforce a no talking policy.

plenty of people would like to know that cutting down on talking decreases likelihood of spread. People that may have answered a call may keep it quiet. And if a homeless person is asleep they likely aren't talking so not sure the issue there.

There's also plenty of self-regulation by people on trains.

There's a difference between making something mandatory (no masks on cars) and communicating to the public to decrease talking so that people will be healthier. They didn't make handwashing mandatory either.

[caulfield12]

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said more than 7,000 nursing homes across the United States have a Covid-19 patient in them. 

“Over half of the nursing homes in this nation right now, over 7,000 nursing homes in this nation, have a Covid patient in them,” Redfield said as he testified before the House Energy and Commerce Committee on Tuesday.

Nursing homes have been hit hard in the pandemic. 

“Recent data show that approximately 40 percent of all COVID-19 deaths in the United States are residents or workers at nursing homes and other longterm care facilities.”

www.cnn.com

[Chisoxfn]

So we really are just going to stop testing and identifying who is positive?  Is this really what our great nation has came to. We are just going to bury our heads in the sand and give up.  I can't get over how significantly the US has failed relative to the vast majority of developed countries we historically claimed to be superior to.  Unbelievable and just sad. Even if we get lucky and the ignore it and test less strategy works...it will only because of sheer luck of the virus going away. It will not because of any actual skill or strategic insights, it is just because we have demonstrated a clear inability as a nation to come together and actually respond to challenging circumstances.  Instead we have decided that politics matter more than what is right.  

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

So we really are just going to stop testing and identifying who is positive?  Is this really what our great nation has came to. We are just going to bury our heads in the sand and give up.  I can't get over how significantly the US has failed relative to the vast majority of developed countries we historically claimed to be superior to.  Unbelievable and just sad. Even if we get lucky and the ignore it and test less strategy works...it will only because of sheer luck of the virus going away. It will not because of any actual skill or strategic insights, it is just because we have demonstrated a clear inability as a nation to come together and actually respond to challenging circumstances.  Instead we have decided that politics matter more than what is right.  

Welcome to the last six months.

[Iwritecode]

5 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

So we really are just going to stop testing and identifying who is positive?  Is this really what our great nation has came to. We are just going to bury our heads in the sand and give up.  I can't get over how significantly the US has failed relative to the vast majority of developed countries we historically claimed to be superior to.  Unbelievable and just sad. Even if we get lucky and the ignore it and test less strategy works...it will only because of sheer luck of the virus going away. It will not because of any actual skill or strategic insights, it is just because we have demonstrated a clear inability as a nation to come together and actually respond to challenging circumstances.  Instead we have decided that politics matter more than what is right.  

Considering the complete lack of leadership in this country, are you really surprised?

[Chisoxfn]

6 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

Considering the complete lack of leadership in this country, are you really surprised?

I've always said he's a pathetic leader, I've also said the left attacked him for everything he did, vs. focus on the big things that mattered that a dynamic was created that a broader swath of the right could actually believe what Trump says when he leverages the liberal media and the far left conspiracy theory.  That in and of itself was a massive failure of the democratic party and the left which swung so far the other direction they indirectly created a larger pocket than they ever expected which would blindly follow Trump (which has always amazed me - just look at every post I've pretty much made on Trump).  

In the past, he said lots of stupid stuff on CoronaVirus, but it felt more like him trying to say things to detract from the fact that they just couldn't get as much done as they could have or should have. In this case, it really officially sounds like they have totally given up, which I guess as I type this, I don't really know what is worse...neither is good but I always say leadership is a two way street and there is just so little leadership to go around politics these days. Everyone is just using everything to feast on others for their own damn agenda vs. the true good of the people.  

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

So we really are just going to stop testing and identifying who is positive?  Is this really what our great nation has came to. We are just going to bury our heads in the sand and give up.  I can't get over how significantly the US has failed relative to the vast majority of developed countries we historically claimed to be superior to.  Unbelievable and just sad. Even if we get lucky and the ignore it and test less strategy works...it will only because of sheer luck of the virus going away. It will not because of any actual skill or strategic insights, it is just because we have demonstrated a clear inability as a nation to come together and actually respond to challenging circumstances.  Instead we have decided that politics matter more than what is right.  

Let's be honest, no we're not going to stop testing and identifying who is positive. The Federal government is useless, that's the end result of one party's political positions basically my whole lifetime, but that's not going to stop people from getting tests. It will make it harder for poor people or people with limited access to get tests, and that will encourage spreading, but that's again a consequence of believing poor people don't deserve health care.

What's likely to happen is Texas, Arizona, Florida, and the other "open" southern states are going to keep having their outbreaks grow, and even if there are fewer tests among the low-income/minority population, the hospitalizations will keep growing until they all reach crisis levels in a few weeks, at which point those states start having no other choice but second lockdowns. These states will also seed new outbreaks across the country, so every state is going to have a problem to deal with. Then, after the next set of shutdowns, maybe, just maybe, at the state level, this fall, we can get these things under control once they've realized they can't just hope the thing away.

[Balta1701]

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

I've always said he's a pathetic leader, I've also said the left attacked him for everything he did, vs. focus on the big things that mattered that a dynamic was created that a broader swath of the right could actually believe what Trump says when he leverages the liberal media and the far left conspiracy theory.  That in and of itself was a massive failure of the democratic party and the left which swung so far the other direction they indirectly created a larger pocket than they ever expected which would blindly follow Trump (which has always amazed me - just look at every post I've pretty much made on Trump).  

In the past, he said lots of stupid stuff on CoronaVirus, but it felt more like him trying to say things to detract from the fact that they just couldn't get as much done as they could have or should have. In this case, it really officially sounds like they have totally given up, which I guess as I type this, I don't really know what is worse...neither is good but I always say leadership is a two way street and there is just so little leadership to go around politics these days. Everyone is just using everything to feast on others for their own damn agenda vs. the true good of the people.  

Sigh.

What exactly was outside the norm about the 44th president? I can think of specifically 1 thing.

[StrangeSox]

OTOH the state and local governments are facing massive budget shortfalls thanks to cratered tax revenues, and they don't have the financial powers of the federal government. If the federal government remains largely absent, the economic damage will be catastrophic and last for years.

[Chisoxfn]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Sigh.

What exactly was outside the norm about the 44th president? I can think of specifically 1 thing.

When I am referring to swinging far left, I am specifically referring to post Trump. I'm not referring to Obama who, in my opinion, was a relatively moderate democrat.  What I would give to have Obama in office right now.  Are there aspects of Obama's policies I disagreed with, absolutely, but was he a good leader and a solid human being who wanted, in his views, what was best for our country, absolutely.  I feel that way about pretty much every president during my lifetime (Republican & Democrat), the lone exception is the current president.  

[Chisoxfn]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Let's be honest, no we're not going to stop testing and identifying who is positive. The Federal government is useless, that's the end result of one party's political positions basically my whole lifetime, but that's not going to stop people from getting tests. It will make it harder for poor people or people with limited access to get tests, and that will encourage spreading, but that's again a consequence of believing poor people don't deserve health care.

What's likely to happen is Texas, Arizona, Florida, and the other "open" southern states are going to keep having their outbreaks grow, and even if there are fewer tests among the low-income/minority population, the hospitalizations will keep growing until they all reach crisis levels in a few weeks, at which point those states start having no other choice but second lockdowns. These states will also seed new outbreaks across the country, so every state is going to have a problem to deal with. Then, after the next set of shutdowns, maybe, just maybe, at the state level, this fall, we can get these things under control once they've realized they can't just hope the thing away.

This is why we will never see eye to eye on politics. I will not ever point anything squarely on one particular side vs. the other.  Woe is me, it is always entirely the other sides fault, etc.  Not to mention this approach does nothing but alienate the entire country. It is this exact mentality that got us in this situation to begin with (and that mentality has been leveraged by both sides).  

[Soxbadger]

34 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I've always said he's a pathetic leader, I've also said the left attacked him for everything he did, vs. focus on the big things that mattered that a dynamic was created that a broader swath of the right could actually believe what Trump says when he leverages the liberal media and the far left conspiracy theory.  That in and of itself was a massive failure of the democratic party and the left which swung so far the other direction they indirectly created a larger pocket than they ever expected which would blindly follow Trump (which has always amazed me - just look at every post I've pretty much made on Trump).  

In the past, he said lots of stupid stuff on CoronaVirus, but it felt more like him trying to say things to detract from the fact that they just couldn't get as much done as they could have or should have. In this case, it really officially sounds like they have totally given up, which I guess as I type this, I don't really know what is worse...neither is good but I always say leadership is a two way street and there is just so little leadership to go around politics these days. Everyone is just using everything to feast on others for their own damn agenda vs. the true good of the people.  

I dont want to make this political, but the current President has gotten away with more lunacy than arguably every other President. I spent countless hours prior to his election pleading with people that what we have seen in the last 3 years is exactly what we would get if he was elected.

If anything he has not been attacked enough, because there is simply not enough time in the day to go over everything he has done to harm the institutions of our nation. He has harmed even non-political institutions.

There is simply no way to quantify the damage that has been done over the last 3 years and those who have attacked him should be credited.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Soxbadger

[bmags]

2 hours ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

Oh there absolutely need to be safety measures. When I said open up 100%, that was not supposed to mean "go back to 100% exactly the way things were". I just meant, all kids going to school. Clearly there will need to be mask rules, lots of disinfecting of surfaces more often, spacing, avoiding the all-school gatherings and the like, a temporary reduction or removal of certain extra-curriculars that have higher risk, etc. To wit...

 

Yes, in fact the state's school board has already made some recommendations to IDPH, along with saying they think schools should open barring a new and significant outbreak. IDPH will supposedly issue their detailed guidance in the next couple weeks.

 

Is the detailed guidance beyond what the governor released today?

[NorthSideSox72]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

Is the detailed guidance beyond what the governor released today?

I see that the state literally, in the last hour or two, just released a high level guidance description (press release) and a detailed plan for opening school in the fall (the real meat of it).

 

[Balta1701]

44 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

When I am referring to swinging far left, I am specifically referring to post Trump. I'm not referring to Obama who, in my opinion, was a relatively moderate democrat.  What I would give to have Obama in office right now.  Are there aspects of Obama's policies I disagreed with, absolutely, but was he a good leader and a solid human being who wanted, in his views, what was best for our country, absolutely.  I feel that way about pretty much every president during my lifetime (Republican & Democrat), the lone exception is the current president.  

Yup, swinging...far left by...nominating Biden?

[bmags]

38 minutes ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

I see that the state literally, in the last hour or two, just released a high level guidance description (press release) and a detailed plan for opening school in the fall (the real meat of it).

 

Yeah, I think this is good guidance, but definitely a lot of flexibility. I think it makes most sense to provide staggered schedules, but that runs into its recommendations to keep child care in mind. 

It's also just going to be a hell of a job for teachers, admins, and students. Bare minimum here is masks, distance, and a good amount of supplies. But there is a lot that can be deployed within it that I hope is done, like having teachers move classrooms instead of kids where possible.

It was very thoughtful and they clearly took the feedback into account. But some of these recommendations run into each other and I feel for the school districts that are more over crowded.

[StrangeSox]

 

[StrangeSox]

Not sure how schools do lunches.

No more than 50 kids gathered at a time? My wife's school has multiple lunch periods with 350 kids each. 

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Not sure how schools do lunches.

No more than 50 kids gathered at a time? My wife's school has multiple lunch periods with 350 kids each. 

The South Korean model was everyone doing lunch silently in classrooms with plastic dividers between each desk.