COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[StrangeSox]

Open'r up

 

 

[caulfield12]

In a statement to CNN, Leanne Stephens of the Tulsa Health Department said, "Our epidemiologists and contact tracers are inundated with following up with Tulsa County residents who are confirmed positive as the numbers have been extremely high in recent days. Yesterday, we set a new single day case high and you can see on our website where the trends are moving."

This coronavirus has a lengthy incubation period -- the time between when someone gets infected to when they start showing symptoms (if they get symptoms at all).The incubation period is about three to 14 days, with symptoms typically appearing "within four or five days after exposure," according to Harvard Medical School.

Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh told CNN, "There were literally no health precautions to speak of as thousands looted, rioted, and protested in the streets and the media reported that it did not lead to a rise in coronavirus cases. Meanwhile, the President's rally was 18 days ago, all attendees had their temperature checked, everyone was provided a mask, and there was plenty of hand sanitizer available for all. It's obvious that the media's concern about large gatherings begins and ends with Trump rallies."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/us/tulsa-covid-trump-rally-contact-tracers-trnd/index.html
 

This is just asinine.  They didn’t require anyone to wear masks in Tulsa, so only about 10-15% actually did.   Just like they zip-tied rows of chairs together at Mount Rushmore to deliberately prevent social distancing (better optics for Fox News), then made an excuse about fire codes...when the danger of a fire was caused by going against the advice of nearly everyone connected with that national park to shoot them in the first place when the fire risk was elevated. Temperature checks are and were almost pointless, as they’re simply not going to catch a virus with a lag time of 14 to as many as 28 days.  At best, they’re roughly 3-5% in terms of general effectiveness.

As far as the protests go, 75-80% of the country is on the side of BLM at the moment, and turning back to 2015-16 and 1968-1972 isn’t going to change a thing.   That type of divisive campaign only works once.

 

 

 Ever since the coronavirus emerged in Europe, Sweden has captured international attention by conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment. It has allowed the world to examine what happens in a pandemic when a government allows life to carry on largely unhindered.

This is what has happened: Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.

“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sweden-become-worlds-cautionary-tale-121752098.html

Edited July 9, 2020 by caulfield12

[pcq]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Everyone who wants a test can have a test, and the tests are beautiful. That was almost 4 months ago, to say testing may be at capacity is fake news obviously.

I was testing people before anybody knew there was testing. We actually have states that want to force people back to work but no masks allowed. We share a country with these people. Wonder if guns will help. 

[greg775]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

"There were literally no health precautions to speak of as thousands looted, rioted, and protested in the streets and the media reported that it did not lead to a rise in coronavirus cases. Meanwhile, the President's rally was 18 days ago, all attendees had their temperature checked, everyone was provided a mask, and there was plenty of hand sanitizer available for all. It's obvious that the media's concern about large gatherings begins and ends with Trump rallies."

At least acknowledge this part is true. Look I'm no brain surgeon but I'm no dummy. I watch livestream of the protests every night (yes they are still going on nightly in Portland, Seattle, Denver; the Portland ones are quite intense nightly). They say we shouldn't be in crowds of more than a handful of people and the protests which have been ongoing for a month are attracting TONS of people during a pandemic.We even had an autonymous zone in Lawrence and our COVID numbers mysteriously are raging now since the zone appeared.  Let's be fair at least. Trump rallies: Bad for pandemic spread. Protests/riots: Bad for pandemic spread. Cmon it doesn't take Einstein to believe my penultimate sentence here is correct as well.

p.s. I don't see why people are so bent out of shape day after day about Trump. He's not gonna win, folks. Just relax. You can voice your displeasure at the ballot box.

Edited July 9, 2020 by greg775

[StrangeSox]

 

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

 

Trump is such a fucking joke.

[The Beast]

8 hours ago, greg775 said:

At least acknowledge this part is true. Look I'm no brain surgeon but I'm no dummy. I watch livestream of the protests every night (yes they are still going on nightly in Portland, Seattle, Denver; the Portland ones are quite intense nightly). They say we shouldn't be in crowds of more than a handful of people and the protests which have been ongoing for a month are attracting TONS of people during a pandemic.We even had an autonymous zone in Lawrence and our COVID numbers mysteriously are raging now since the zone appeared.  Let's be fair at least. Trump rallies: Bad for pandemic spread. Protests/riots: Bad for pandemic spread. Cmon it doesn't take Einstein to believe my penultimate sentence here is correct as well.

p.s. I don't see why people are so bent out of shape day after day about Trump. He's not gonna win, folks. Just relax. You can voice your displeasure at the ballot box.

Are the people protesting wearing masks? Are they protesting outside?

At the president’s rallies, are participants wearing masks or social distancing?

We can complain about Mr. Trump each day if we want to, he is not leading against the virus from the top, is not considering teachers when returning to work this fall, is using schools reopening as a tool to reopen the economy without  regard for lives and he is not for anyone other than his base. He also can’t unilaterally defund public schools, which are primarily funded through local and state taxes. After 2016, there is no way that we can assume he is not going to win.

Edited July 9, 2020 by The Beast

[caulfield12]

Scared for my life,' but needing a salary: Teachers weigh risks as COVID-19 looms

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/07/09/covid-school-reopening-teachers-health/5403160002/

 

The Federal government is responsible for about 8% of school funding.  The bigger issue is supplemental grants and the local/municipal budget crunches that are taking place all over the country.  If 1 in 5 teachers don’t return and also wait to make these decisions at the last second, running a lot of schools around the country under even normal circumstances would have been challenging at best.  Really feel bad for K-5 teachers in particular, whose students who are constantly in close contact with each other by nature.

[Dick Allen]

Trump is having all kinds of problems with fractions on Twitter, but he claims the only reason there are so many cases (little embers) is because there are so many tests. That there wouldn't be Covid 19 without tests. 

So he doesn't know basic fractions, something you learn in grammar school. And has no logic. No tests=no disease? Does that mean we can rid the world of earthquakes if they demolish all Richter Scales?

[hogan873]

20 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Trump is having all kinds of problems with fractions on Twitter, but he claims the only reason there are so many cases (little embers) is because there are so many tests. That there wouldn't be Covid 19 without tests. 

So he doesn't know basic fractions, something you learn in grammar school. And has no logic. No tests=no disease? Does that mean we can rid the world of earthquakes if they demolish all Richter Scales?

Tornadoes and hurricanes could also be eliminated if we got rid of all radars.

It blows my mind that he (and others) believe that if we don't test there won't be more cases.  True we won't have confirmed cases, we'll just have some mystery disease making lots of people sick.

[StrangeSox]

 

[he gone.]

17 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

The massive eviction wave getting underway is going to be absolutely brutal

 

 

 

so much unnecessary pain and suffering and death in this country

the court systems are so backed up that evictions are going to be hard to enforce if the renters know their rights. 

[he gone.]

2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

 

a) i think the situation was mishandled. b) i think that trump deserves a lot of blame c) it's also true that governors and mayors were given the power to enforce their own rules and almost uniformly they dropped the ball too d) yes it's hard to control a mass population against their will especially when there's a head guy trying to divert attention e) you show me a stat, i can show you how to manipulate it -- aka you can't just take a magical calculator and assume all is constant. if you have more people, you have more proximity, aka more spread. it's like taking montana cases and populating until you have 330million people and saying Montana did a great job when probably people from Montana are wearing less masks on a percentage basis than people in downtown Chicago. See what i'm saying?

 

We all sit here casting stones, but it's a lot more complex than that. I had my own idea of Covid in February, March, April, May and today. My viewpoints have evolved a lot. Hell i remember as late as mid-April when companies starting enforcing wearing a mask how I was like no way I'm doing that. By end of April i was mad at those who weren't. Now I'm appalled by people who don't. unfortunately you have a person at the top whose main goal seems to be win at all costs. he doesn't really give a flying f about the health concerns, it's just marketing angles to see what sticks. "freedom" to not wear a mask. "we test more so there's more positives" "why didn't the protestors all wear masks" "deaths are down" etc etc. all just misinformation tactics to control. And the other side does the opposite. Fear. fear. fear. evil man. evil agenda. 

Truth is always somewhere in the middle. Testing = good. deaths down = good - also due to increase of drugs to treat and keep of ventilators. masks = amazing. They allow our economy to get back to normal, to live normal lives, etc. Simple simple simple. be kind. be empathetic. wear a mask. 

[southsider2k5]

8 hours ago, Tony said:

 

It is sooooo true.  The government wants their poor kid baby sitters back so they can force people back to work.

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

a) i think the situation was mishandled. b) i think that trump deserves a lot of blame c) it's also true that governors and mayors were given the power to enforce their own rules and almost uniformly they dropped the ball too d) yes it's hard to control a mass population against their will especially when there's a head guy trying to divert attention e) you show me a stat, i can show you how to manipulate it -- aka you can't just take a magical calculator and assume all is constant. if you have more people, you have more proximity, aka more spread. it's like taking montana cases and populating until you have 330million people and saying Montana did a great job when probably people from Montana are wearing less masks on a percentage basis than people in downtown Chicago. See what i'm saying?

 

We all sit here casting stones, but it's a lot more complex than that. I had my own idea of Covid in February, March, April, May and today. My viewpoints have evolved a lot. Hell i remember as late as mid-April when companies starting enforcing wearing a mask how I was like no way I'm doing that. By end of April i was mad at those who weren't. Now I'm appalled by people who don't. unfortunately you have a person at the top whose main goal seems to be win at all costs. he doesn't really give a flying f about the health concerns, it's just marketing angles to see what sticks. "freedom" to not wear a mask. "we test more so there's more positives" "why didn't the protestors all wear masks" "deaths are down" etc etc. all just misinformation tactics to control. And the other side does the opposite. Fear. fear. fear. evil man. evil agenda. 

Truth is always somewhere in the middle. Testing = good. deaths down = good - also due to increase of drugs to treat and keep of ventilators. masks = amazing. They allow our economy to get back to normal, to live normal lives, etc. Simple simple simple. be kind. be empathetic. wear a mask. 

Not a two sides argument here.

Other than Sweden and Brazil, no country has been worse at this...UK even recovered from their early missteps and have done much better than the US, all things considered.   We spend many multiples per patient or per capita US population on health care compared to any country in the world except for Switzerland and Luxembourg.

So it’s a false equivalency.  Fauci’s “fearful/conservative” science vs. “we just have to live with/muddle through” are not two sides of the same coin.

It doesn’t really matter how much information and advance warning roughly 1/3rd the US population had, they weren’t willing or were simply unable to listen until something dramatic happened to change or completely upend their personal circumstances...sick family member, lost job or house, etc.   I started this thread the first day the world really started taking notice, the morning of the lockdown here in Wuhan.   If you look at all the concerns over those months about accuracy of testing, access to PPE, ventilators, therapeutics, vaccines, hospitals pushed to capacity, contact tracing/public health departments underfunded, nothing has fundamentally changed except doctors and nurses learning through trial and error, then pooled experience, the optimal strategies to minimize the death counts upon hospitalization.

 

And how could we possibly expect mayors and governors to have more expertise than the CDC (muzzled or undercut repeatedly), NIH and HHS/FDA?

Edited July 9, 2020 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

18 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is sooooo true.  The government wants their poor kid baby sitters back so they can force people back to work.

I would be shocked if there aren't widespread strikes over unsafe working conditions at some point this fall.

[he gone.]

13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Not a two sides argument here.

Other than Sweden and Brazil, no country has been worse at this...UK even recovered from their early missteps and have done much better than the US, all things considered.   We spend many multiples per patient or per capita US population on health care compared to any country in the world except for Switzerland and Luxembourg.

So it’s a false equivalency.  Fauci’s “fearful/conservative” science vs. “we just have to live with/muddle through” are not two sides of the same coin.

It doesn’t really matter how much information and advance warning roughly 1/3rd the US population had, they weren’t willing or were simply unable to listen until something dramatic happened to change or completely upend their personal circumstances...sick family member, lost job or house, etc.   I started this thread the first day the world really started taking notice, the morning of the lockdown here in Wuhan.   If you look at all the concerns over those months about accuracy of testing, access to PPE, ventilators, therapeutics, vaccines, hospitals pushed to capacity, contact tracing/public health departments underfunded, nothing has fundamentally changed except doctors and nurses learning through trial and error, then pooled experience, the optimal strategies to minimize the death counts upon hospitalization.

 

And how could we possibly expect mayors and governors to have more expertise than the CDC (muzzled or undercut repeatedly), NIH and HHS/FDA?

Just playing devil's advocate - how can you expect an unwillingly and proud* uneducated group of individuals to follow rules then? You've got individuals who are receiving far less news than mayors and governors, who are way less educated, and who have a general non-trust of government asked to comply with something they don't believe in. Like you said there's about 1/3 of the population that wouldn't believe anything no matter what. I don't get those people at all, but its like herding cats. Those type of people attach themselves to buzz words and tribalism of "freedom"

 

Hopefully we learned something from this for a next time. Maybe we should have had DOCTORS leading the cause here and being the mouthpiece rather than politicians reciting information from doctors. who knows. the whole thing is messed up. there's no easy answer. even in cities like chicago where lightfoot has done a good job (in my opinion) you're going to have a big opposition of people saying she's doing a bad job because businesses are remaining closed, beaches, etc. Truth is that the safest way, but it comes at a cost. 

 

[Jose Abreu]

1 hour ago, BrianAnderson said:

Truth is always somewhere in the middle. Testing = good. deaths down = good - also due to increase of drugs to treat and keep of ventilators. masks = amazing. They allow our economy to get back to normal, to live normal lives, etc. Simple simple simple. be kind. be empathetic. wear a mask. 

Man, if I had a nickel for every time this adage has been incorrectly employed in this thread. Especially given that what you're arguing for isn't really "the middle"

[he gone.]

43 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Man, if I had a nickel for every time this adage has been incorrectly employed in this thread. Especially given that what you're arguing for isn't really "the middle"

*** incorrectly deployed 

Employ is a verb described to hire

[he gone.]

47 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Man, if I had a nickel for every time this adage has been incorrectly employed in this thread. Especially given that what you're arguing for isn't really "the middle"

But seriously dude? Come on. The truth isn't that simple - does that work better for you? it's not black and white. its grey. for every action there's a reaction. What saying do you want me to use? I'm simply trying to convey that the world would be a better place if people listened to both sides and met in the middle. had some empathy. you can go down a rabbit hole with defenses for either side and both sides are going to walk away, dug in more in their views. 

 

What would i do? and again, this is not perfect, i haven't talked to doctors, i am not a doctor, etc. 

1 - each state/city should be able to work together and mandate what best suits their people. What's good for NY isn't necessarily true for North Dakota

2 - i think there should be age considerations given. If you're under 50 and don't have preexisting health conditions I think going back to work should be encouraged. get the economy up and running again

3 - throughout all of this masks should be a mandate inside and where social distancing can't be applied outside

4 - back to point two - i think there should be set aside hours at businesses for senior citizens and those at risk. basically try and limit contact between young and old as much as possible

5 - I personally believe travel bans should be put in place. I am undecided if this should be interstate bans, or regional travel allowed. AKA, midwest, south, NW etc. or just IL, WI, IN etc. the thought process behind this is places like AZ or TX where it explodes. If you dont have people from IL traveling to TX, then you reduce the spread. Likewise if you have outbreak you can control it said region

6 - I think you have to get money into the hands of the people. The actual people. no trickle down ecnoomics. This gives money to poeple who are too afraid to get back to work or who are at risk while propping the economy up. 

7 - continue to limit indoors. 

 

There's probably more, but that's my basic plan. No travel out of country, or out of region/state. Wear a mask. Get younger people back to work. Implement a plan to keep older poeple separated as best as possible. Maintain social distancing, etc. as we have to the best of our ability. 

[Jose Abreu]

1 hour ago, BrianAnderson said:

*** incorrectly deployed 

Employ is a verb described to hire



Deploy might have been a better verb, but employ also means "make use of, use, utilize" so I'm not sure why you're trying to pick grammar fights. Words have multiple definitions

[Jose Abreu]

1 hour ago, BrianAnderson said:

But seriously dude? Come on. The truth isn't that simple - does that work better for you? it's not black and white. its grey. for every action there's a reaction. What saying do you want me to use? I'm simply trying to convey that the world would be a better place if people listened to both sides and met in the middle. had some empathy. you can go down a rabbit hole with defenses for either side and both sides are going to walk away, dug in more in their views. 

 

 What would i do? and again, this is not perfect, i haven't talked to doctors, i am not a doctor, etc. 

1 - each state/city should be able to work together and mandate what best suits their people. What's good for NY isn't necessarily true for North Dakota

2 - i think there should be age considerations given. If you're under 50 and don't have preexisting health conditions I think going back to work should be encouraged. get the economy up and running again

3 - throughout all of this masks should be a mandate inside and where social distancing can't be applied outside

4 - back to point two - i think there should be set aside hours at businesses for senior citizens and those at risk. basically try and limit contact between young and old as much as possible

5 - I personally believe travel bans should be put in place. I am undecided if this should be interstate bans, or regional travel allowed. AKA, midwest, south, NW etc. or just IL, WI, IN etc. the thought process behind this is places like AZ or TX where it explodes. If you dont have people from IL traveling to TX, then you reduce the spread. Likewise if you have outbreak you can control it said region

 6 - I think you have to get money into the hands of the people. The actual people. no trickle down ecnoomics. This gives money to poeple who are too afraid to get back to work or who are at risk while propping the economy up. 

 7 - continue to limit indoors. 

 

There's probably more, but that's my basic plan. No travel out of country, or out of region/state. Wear a mask. Get younger people back to work. Implement a plan to keep older poeple separated as best as possible. Maintain social distancing, etc. as we have to the best of our ability. 

Yeah, I don't have a problem with anything you said in your plan. My issue is just that the idea that there is a "middle ground" that is always right is extremely historically tone deaf. If that were really true, slavery would still exist today, white men would be the only people allowed to vote, etc.

 

Not to mention, the U.S. doesn't really have a "middle", since the area between conservatives and liberals is still extremely to the right of the global or true middle. That said, I agree with your overall idea, but I believe that phrases such as "the truth is always in the middle" and whatnot are extremely reductive and historically false

[StrangeSox]

Can't wait for my wife to have to go back to teaching in a building with over a thousand people in six weeks. Glad we've kept everything super safe and case counts in Illinois continue to drop!

 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, StrangeSox said:

Can't wait for my wife to have to go back to teaching in a building with over a thousand people in six weeks. Glad we've kept everything super safe and case counts in Illinois continue to drop!

 

Professional Sports teams are doing everything they can to get seasons going again. They are testing regularly, social distancing, and they are closed to the general public, yet infection rates are still running around 10%  School systems will get NONE of this precautions.  Gee I wonder what is going to happen here.

[he gone.]

23 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Deploy might have been a better verb, but employ also means "make use of, use, utilize" so I'm not sure why you're trying to pick grammar fights. Words have multiple definitions

I only picked that fight because you picked a fight with "truth is in the middle". It's mincing words and sidetracks what is meant to be a productive conversation. 

No harm meant - more jest to give back what you were giving. 

As with everything, typing on a message board it's hard to convey what you're truly trying to get across and the tone of said message