COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[Balta1701]

5 hours ago, bmags said:

Would be nice if there was a competent group that could make a program to take advantage of the college student population who is now taking online courses, and use them as a daycare resource. Create grants for the families to pay for it, students get grants for tuition, and Schools would be required to create schedule flexibility for these students in the program. Schools have easier time getting paid full tuition.

childcare/stimulus/higher ed bailout.

Are you thinking of some sort of online daycare? Because I've looked through the 5 or so posts on this and I'm not sure. 

If you're thinking of in person, the obvious problem is that college students are in general a group who are extremely likely to pick up this virus in the current wave, so sending them into people's homes would make it extremely likely that they'd be spreading the virus around as they did so.

[caulfield12]

In other ways, the spread of COVID-19 is keeping Americans from going back to work. The perception of public transit as unsafe, for example, makes it expensive and tough for commuters to get to their jobs. Schools and day-care centers are struggling to figure out how to reopen safely, meaning millions of parents are facing a fall juggling work and child care. This is a disaster. “The lingering uncertainty about whether in-person education will resume isn’t the result of malfeasance, but utter nonfeasance,” the former Department of Homeland Security official Juliette Kayyem has argued in The Atlantic. “Four months of stay-at-home orders have proved that, if schools are unavailable, a city cannot work, a community cannot function, a nation cannot safeguard itself.”

International comparisons are enlightening. Countries that successfully countered the virus seem to have enjoyed better financial recoveries; countries that did not shut down saw major hits to their economy anyway. In Sweden, authorities declined to enact strict public-health measures as the virus took hold. It has seen significantly higher case counts and more deaths than its neighbors, such as Norway, and its economy tanked. Or consider South Korea. With aggressive contact tracing and mass testing, it kept many of its commercial and educational facilities open as it quashed the pandemic. (The country has tallied just 288 deaths from COVID-19, compared with roughly 135,000 in the United States.) The unemployment rate there is 4.2 percent, and the economy is expected to contract just a small amount this year, due in part to falling exports.

In New Zealand, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern did a “little dance” to celebrate the country’s reopening one full month ago. In Taiwan, thousands of fans cheered from the stands at a baseball game last week, unafraid of disease. In France, one of the hardest-hit countries in Europe, families are back to going on vacation, eating in cafés, and visiting loved ones in hospitals. In the United States, outbreaks are shutting everything down yet again.

The United States can still contain the spread of COVID-19 and save lives, epidemiologists argue. The country can still flatten the curve and lower the death toll. Simple, low-cost measures like requiring masks in public would preserve as much as 5 percent of GDP, economists haveestimated, as well as preventing thousands from getting sick. The supposed trade-off between public health and the economy doesn’t exist. And right now, the country is choosing not to save either.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/the-terrifying-next-phase-of-the-coronavirus-recession/ar-BB16KRlD

 

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, Hawkfan said:

My proposed Idea is to send the kids back to school. But Betsy Devos has presented the perfect option of having school choice, so if you are willing to send your child to school, do it. And if not, use a different option you find appropriate.  Common sense.  Be American, do what's best for your family and don't oppress others with communist democrat ideas.

 

I think it is funny you put "common sense" and that description of "communist" in the same paragraph.  I think you might need to research one or both of them, especially with our propaganda controlling President that we have now fitting the description of a fascist.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

My proposed Idea is to let people drive drunk. But Betsy Devos has presented the perfect option of having drunk driving choice, so if you are willing to drive drunk, do it. And if not, use a different option you find appropriate.  Common sense.  Be American, do what's best for your family and don't oppress others with communist democrat ideas.

And they will only kill like 0.02% of kids, so it is cool!

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, turnin' two said:

Dude.  Not sure wishing death on other people is a good way to demonstrate that you "give a fuck about people".

 

Isn't that exactly what he's doing?

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Hawkfan said:

Most people agree with Betsy Devos, partisanship aside. She has been a great advocate for improvement in our education system.  

No.  Not even close.  She is the enemy of public education and is only trying to drain public sector funds to the corporate schooling arena.

[southsider2k5]

38 minutes ago, Hawkfan said:

Yes, there is a demand for restaurants to be open, there is a demand for schools to be open, demand for air travel, but it can't be met due to unnecessary restrictions (the uneducated would call them protections). I believe there is definitely some cause for concern when you see the Government trying to "protect" us so much.  If you think them doling out money to citizens is a good thing, that's fine, but I can't believe that is a good strategy.

I think someone should open a nuclear waste dump next to your house and see how quickly you turn into a "communist".

[Hawkfan]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think someone should open a nuclear waste dump next to your house and see how quickly you turn into a "communist".

Covid protections are the nuclear waste, it's already happening.  But I'll keep fighting, I expect others will too.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Hawkfan said:

Covid protections are the nuclear waste, it's already happening.  But I'll keep fighting, I expect others will too.

I have to laugh at people who think like this.  All of the science and  common sense in the world can't stop a good cult leader from marching people into danger.

[StrangeSox]

Another good episode of TWiV

 

Michael Mina of Harvard comes on to discuss the idea of using cheap, quick, less accurate tests but at a much higher volume to test everyone regularly (as frequently as daily). The current PCR tests are very sensitive and very specific-they can detect the virus at very low levels and be highly confident in the results, limiting false positives.

This is fantastic, but these are the "cadillac" of COVID tests and we're seeing big and growing backlogs. Over a week now from Quest/LabCorp, and not enough people getting tested anyway. 

He defends the Abbott ID NOW tests that were touted early but then found to have low sensitivity on the grounds that we don't actually need to detect virus at super low levels. At higher viral loads, they're perfectly fine. It's at the detection limits that they're marginal. If everyone could have a research-grade PCR test frequently, that'd be great! But we're not there, maybe can never be there, and it'd be hugely expensive. So use the less-sensitive tests on everyone over and over and over again, and you're going to be able to catch true spread much more accurately and, importantly, very quickly. He estimates you could get the tests down to $1/test pretty easily with huge production numbers.

If we were testing every student and teacher every day, heck even every few days, we could instantly smother outbreaks.

Edited July 16, 2020 by StrangeSox

[Hawkfan]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have to laugh at people who think like this.  All of the science and  common sense in the world can't stop a good cult leader from marching people into danger.

Exactly, finally someone who agrees with me.

[Dick Allen]

Canada, UK and US allege Russian cyber attacks on Covid 19 research centers. I guess if Putin denies it, it will be considered fake news.

[StrangeSox]

Unless they're messing with the data, not sure why I should care. Make all COVID data fully publicly available to every researcher everywhere.

 

[southsider2k5]

45 minutes ago, Hawkfan said:

Exactly, finally someone who agrees with me.

Yes, wearing masks is going to kill people.  Do you realize how absurd you sound.

[Dick Allen]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Mask_League_of_San_Francisco

[Hawkfan]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yes, wearing masks is going to kill people.  Do you realize how absurd you sound.

Who said that?

[Hawkfan]

The mask is just the flag you wave that says I'm willing to watch people die while I do nothing but ask for more porridge.

[The Beast]

5 hours ago, Hawkfan said:

My proposed Idea is to send the kids back to school. But Betsy Devos has presented the perfect option of having school choice, so if you are willing to send your child to school, do it. And if not, use a different option you find appropriate.  Common sense.  Be American, do what's best for your family and don't oppress others with communist democrat ideas.

 

What is communist about Democratic ideas? Why is Devos in the position she is in? Why does she mention school choice instead of finding solutions during a pandemic?

[southsider2k5]

16 minutes ago, Hawkfan said:

The mask is just the flag you wave that says I'm willing to watch people die while I do nothing but ask for more porridge.

You are telling people that their lives just aren't important, and you are perfectly willing to kill someone to prove it.

[Hawkfan]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You are telling people that their lives just aren't important, and you are perfectly willing to kill someone to prove it.

That's what the mask symbolizes, yes I agree.  

[greg775]

8 hours ago, bmags said:

Would be nice if there was a competent group that could make a program to take advantage of the college student population who is now taking online courses, and use them as a daycare resource. Create grants for the families to pay for it, students get grants for tuition, and Schools would be required to create schedule flexibility for these students in the program. Schools have easier time getting paid full tuition.

childcare/stimulus/higher ed bailout.

problem is in 2020 some of the students that are untrained at day care could harm the kids. And not be patient. Also there'd need to be testing on a regular basis to protest both the students and kids. Where are all these tests going to come from? 

[StrangeSox]

 

[StrangeSox]

7 minutes ago, Tony said:

This is the problem when people complain “oh this place is just full of liberals, it’s just an echo chamber, you guys won’t listen to anyone else.” 

I wonder why. Instead of actually having a discussion and sharing information, data, or even an informed opinion...you’re just a troll. 

It's such an absurd argument when you consider the risks of the different paths. Let's say that the covid denialists are right, this thing is completely overblown, nearly every government around the world has been hoodwinked along with the overwhelming majority of the world's virology and epidemiology experts. Democrats in this country are intentionally hamstringing the economy and overhyping this in order to damage Trump/GOP.

So in that case, what possible harm does wearing the mask actually do? Best case, you wore an extra piece of clothing while out in public for a little bit as a show of consideration for your fellow citizens who were naively scared. This whole thing would be under control without masks, but they didn't cause any harm. Worst case, you're wrong, the actual experts are right, and you wearing the mask helped get this thing under control that much quicker!

Or, you don't wear a mask, and you're right. Ok, what did you gain? Smug satisfaction, but not much else. Or you don't wear a mask, and you're wrong, and now you've increased the danger for everyone's health and our economic capabilities that much more. Maybe you even directly kill someone by spreading the infection to them.

It's the ultimate display of a completely selfish ideology. Minimal personal inconvenience for very high potential reward (greatly reduced illness/death/economic damage), or selfishness with very high potential negative consequences. 

[bmags]

30 minutes ago, greg775 said:

problem is in 2020 some of the students that are untrained at day care could harm the kids. And not be patient. Also there'd need to be testing on a regular basis to protest both the students and kids. Where are all these tests going to come from? 

were students trained in daycare in 1990 or something

[southsider2k5]

52 minutes ago, Hawkfan said:

That's what the mask symbolizes, yes I agree.  

How is that?  how is taking a protection the symbol of death.  I asked you that and you ducked it quicker than the President ducking his own words.  Let's hear it.  How is people taking scientifically proven protections, which have been used by medical professionals for as long as standards have existed in modern medicine killing people.  I want to see yoru scientifically studied and peer reviewed paper that states masks are kiling people.