COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[StrangeSox]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Which brings the question, How can you expect them to protect the country when they  cannot even protect themselves?

Trump campaign aide Erin Perrine on Monday suggested that President Donald Trump is a better leader than Democratic candidate Joe Biden because he has the “firsthand experience” of being infected with COVID-19.

While speaking to Fox News host Sandra Smith, Perrine pointed to Trump’s joyride around Walter Reed Medical Center to wave at supporters as evidence of him continuing with a presidential schedule, which she said was “more rigorous” than Joe Biden’s daily activities.

 

“Firsthand experience is always going to change how someone relates to something that’s been happening,” Perrine opined. “The president has coronavirus right now, he is battling it head on, as toughly, as only President Trump can. And of course that’s going to change the way that he speaks of it because it will be a firsthand experience.”

 

 

“Those firsthand experiences are what are going to get President Trump four more years,” she added. “So of course he talks about it differently now that he has lived through it.”

 

 

 

[StrangeSox]

I'm not sure "Now that the President has been personally affected, he actually gives a shit and takes this seriously" is the winning message they think it is when there are already hundreds of thousands dead.

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Which brings the question, How can you expect them to protect the country when they  cannot even protect themselves?

The answer is they never have, and never will.

[Dick Allen]

34 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Trump campaign aide Erin Perrine on Monday suggested that President Donald Trump is a better leader than Democratic candidate Joe Biden because he has the “firsthand experience” of being infected with COVID-19.

While speaking to Fox News host Sandra Smith, Perrine pointed to Trump’s joyride around Walter Reed Medical Center to wave at supporters as evidence of him continuing with a presidential schedule, which she said was “more rigorous” than Joe Biden’s daily activities.

 

“Firsthand experience is always going to change how someone relates to something that’s been happening,” Perrine opined. “The president has coronavirus right now, he is battling it head on, as toughly, as only President Trump can. And of course that’s going to change the way that he speaks of it because it will be a firsthand experience.”

 

 

“Those firsthand experiences are what are going to get President Trump four more years,” she added. “So of course he talks about it differently now that he has lived through it.”

 

 

 

This is like choosing your pilot based on their experience crashing. At what point do people start holding it against them that they think you are so dumb?

Edited October 5, 2020 by Dick Allen

[StrangeSox]

 

[bmags]

about time

[StrangeSox]

Cuomo has also handled this whole thing very stupidly and continues apace

 

 

[greg775]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Chris Christy can check into the hospital as a precautionary measure. My wife, fully insured, with asthma, doesn’t have Covid but has the “beginnings” of pneumonia, needs a CT scan of her lungs. They have an opening on October 28th.

Can she go to emergency? This is appalling. So now we can't even get emergency medical care? So now as a country we are at the stage we can't get emergency treatment. Yes the world is coming to an end as we once knew it. We're all doomed if we are being left to have to endure a serious medical condition with 3 week waits for treatment.

[greg775]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

A Fox and Friends host posted a picture of himself wearing a mask in a Walmart where masks are mandatory. He was getting blasted in the comments section for wearing a mask. So much so, he had to disable it. 
 

More proof leaving it up to the people is a bad idea.

How many blasted him? One or two or a ton? Here in Kansas people wear masks cause it's the rule. If you are eating and/or drinking you can take it off. Why are people still blasting others for wearing a mask? Doesn't EVERYBODY by now know somebody with covid-19 or who had covid-19? I know up to five people now. Yeah it's real; yeah I don;'t want to get it.

[Iwritecode]

7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

How many blasted him? One or two or a ton?

Enough that he had to turn the comments off.

7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Why are people still blasting others for wearing a mask?

Because as I said before, people are morons. 

 

[Iwritecode]

8 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Doesn't EVERYBODY by now know somebody with covid-19 or who had covid-19?

My daughter's boyfriend's dad's boss tested positive. That's about as close as I've gotten to knowing anyone personally.

[Kyyle23]

My dads best friend died in March of Covid, and my best friend was one of the first 12 reported cases in Illinois, he spent a week in the hospital with pneumonia and a 104 degree fever 

[Quin]

19 minutes ago, Tony said:

In summary, the President of the United States had to be rushed to the hospital for a virus and received care that 99.99% of Americans can’t receive, and is now somehow...endorsing getting Corona Virus as he feels better AFTER he got it. 

1. Experimental antibody
2. Supplemental oxygen
3. Two doses of remdesivir
4. Steroids
5. World class doctors

It's all good fam

[Dick Allen]

23 minutes ago, Tony said:

In summary, the President of the United States had to be rushed to the hospital for a virus and received care that 99.99% of Americans can’t receive, and is now somehow...endorsing getting Corona Virus as he feels better AFTER he got it. 

I love how he gives his administration credit for developing the drugs. Looks like they are all going to need them. Only 210k have died. Nothing to fear. I doubt he is out of the woods either.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

How about we put it this way.  Think of all of the different laws we have.  Almost all of them would not be required if people could handle a basic set of ideals.  But they couldn't so a law and punishment was written to stop them from happening.  Should people be responsible enough to go out and have a drink or two without getting too drunk to be able to drive?  Sure.  Could alcohol serving establishments sell a lot more drinks if they didn't have to worry about over-serving people who drove home?  Where is the personal responsibility on both sides, right?  People were dying in large numbers because people were to irresponsible to not kill each other.  But neither people, nor bars, could handle that, so hence the laws surrounding DUI.   It is the same thing here, except in much larger numbers.  The incentive is to put people into dangerous situations for establishments, and for people to think they can handle this and not endanger people while going out in public.  But 200,000 + dead people is a great statement that both parties are wrong, and that the government should step in to minimize social damage.  We do this all of the time in the US on a much smaller scale.

Or child safety seats in cars... we allow judgement or discretion to be utilized in society, but only to a certain extent. For example, not forcing those in the back seats of a vehicle to be belted. 

[StrangeSox]

 

[NWINFan]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Which brings the question, How can you expect them to protect the country when they  cannot even protect themselves?

This is a very good question. The answer is they can't. They are still in denial and it is the strangest denial I have ever seen. Trump states how well he feels right now ignoring the fact that the Virus can have long-term effects. This is incredible.

[Texsox]

6 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Maybe a lot of this is talking past each other.

 

Some of the irresponsible people are the political leaders who are doing things like opening up bars and restaurants for indoor dining and encouraging other high-risk activities such as that. Without responsible rules in place, which unfortunately include closing a whole lot of places down until things are at a controllable level, personal responsibility doesn't really start factoring in. Because you can be "responsibly" just doing the things all sorts of leaders and officials are telling you are good and safe, like going to bars, opening up schools, etc., and be contributing to the spread.

 

So ultimately, I am looking to the public policy leaders to be officially/publicly responsible here. Because without strong state and national leadership and the willingness to make the tough calls and put in the strict rules, we don't have a chance. Step 1 is putting the responsible rules in place so we stop killing people. Step 2 is the personal, individual responsibility in following those rules we need.

We did an okay job at Step 1 in a lot of places, though not all, early on. Since May in many areas and June in most others, we've seriously failed and we're heading down the wrong road at a steady pace. Without that Step 1, Step 2 doesn't really matter.

It must be we were talking past each other. I felt like I was in this loop

Board: People aren't being responsible.

Me: Yep they should be responsible.

Board: But Tex personal responsibility doesn't work. 

No doubt there are bad plans out there. But a bad plan with people being responsible is better that a great plan that people ignore. 

I will disagree with one point, at least how I define being responsible, it should be step one. Because I believe being responsible is wearing a mask, etc and following all the steps that would be in the plan anyway. The plan just sets penalties for non compliance. But that's splitting hairs.

If you check Gillespie County they have had 321 total cases with 10 deaths. Total.  I feel pretty comfortable with sitting in a chair 25 feet away from anyone and sipping a glass of wine. YMMV

[Texsox]

6 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Will we be banning people for referring to the 1918 pandemic as the Spanish Flu?

No. But if they change the name to something else, probably. What was the Spanish Flu officially called? Widespread usage calls this Covid, Covid19, or the coronavirus. 

[Texsox]

6 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

How about we put it this way.  Think of all of the different laws we have.  Almost all of them would not be required if people could handle a basic set of ideals.  But they couldn't so a law and punishment was written to stop them from happening.  Should people be responsible enough to go out and have a drink or two without getting too drunk to be able to drive?  Sure.  Could alcohol serving establishments sell a lot more drinks if they didn't have to worry about over-serving people who drove home?  Where is the personal responsibility on both sides, right?  People were dying in large numbers because people were to irresponsible to not kill each other.  But neither people, nor bars, could handle that, so hence the laws surrounding DUI.   It is the same thing here, except in much larger numbers.  The incentive is to put people into dangerous situations for establishments, and for people to think they can handle this and not endanger people while going out in public.  But 200,000 + dead people is a great statement that both parties are wrong, and that the government should step in to minimize social damage.  We do this all of the time in the US on a much smaller scale.

I agree. There must be rules and punishments.

I say people need to responsibly follow those rules. You disagree and say that fails.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Texsox said:

I agree. There must be rules and punishments.

I say people need to responsibly follow those rules. You disagree and say that fails.

They need to, but they don't.  We know this.  It is human behavior.  People are dying because of it.  It is an empty platitude.

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

In summary, the President of the United States had to be rushed to the hospital for a virus and received care that 99.99% of Americans can’t receive, and is now somehow...endorsing getting Corona Virus as he feels better AFTER he got it. 

And my fears have been realized - was worried this is exactly how he would handle this (if it is even real).  

[Texsox]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They need to, but they don't.  We know this.  It is human behavior.  People are dying because of it.  It is an empty platitude.

And when they don't they need to be held accountable not told that personal responsibility doesn't matter.

 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

And when they don't they need to be held accountable not told that personal responsibility doesn't matter.

 

But thy aren't, so now what?

[StrangeSox]

58 minutes ago, Texsox said:

It must be we were talking past each other. I felt like I was in this loop

Board: People aren't being responsible.

Me: Yep they should be responsible.

Board: But Tex personal responsibility doesn't work. 

No doubt there are bad plans out there. But a bad plan with people being responsible is better that a great plan that people ignore. 

I will disagree with one point, at least how I define being responsible, it should be step one. Because I believe being responsible is wearing a mask, etc and following all the steps that would be in the plan anyway. The plan just sets penalties for non compliance. But that's splitting hairs.

If you check Gillespie County they have had 321 total cases with 10 deaths. Total.  I feel pretty comfortable with sitting in a chair 25 feet away from anyone and sipping a glass of wine. YMMV

Personal responsibility as the primary mechanism very clearly does not work. A bad plan with people being "responsible," aka doing the things officials say is okay like going to bars and restaurants, is a bad plan that leads to 200,000+ dead. A good plan is one people can't ignore because these sorts of public places aren't open in the first place. We can again look all over the world to find examples of good and bad plans. The good plans don't rely on opening everything up but hoping people are responsible enough to not go do these things.

That you're focused on penalties and punishment rather than proactive prevention really shows that you're still missing the key element, imo. You're focused on indivuals rather than institutions, venues, businesses. 

It all comes down to probabilities and risk assessments. Many people base their risk perception on what leaders and officials say and do. If officials are telling them things like indoor dining are safe, they'll be "responsible" and go do these things. That's why "personal responsibility" can never be step 1 in a public health crisis. People do need to be responsible and follow the rules, but thoes rules need to be responsible. Currently, they are very far from responsible. As a result, we have 40,000 more people every day catching this virus, 500-1000 of which will be killed by it, and 8k or so who will be hospitalized. Every. Single. Day. We've failed. We're still failing.

Maybe you're 99% safe every time you go out, 3-4 times a week. Do that enough, though, and your risk of catching or spreading is going to climb to appreciable numbers. Now have everyone else in the community doing the same. Oops, now you've got yet another hotspot raging uncontrolled. The same story in community after community after community throughout the country. It's pretty clear evidence that we cannot rely on atomized risk assessment and instead must have strong top-down policy and coordination to handle this. 

 

By the way, those numbers in Gillespie County are actually not great. 10 deaths from a population of 25k would be pretty high up there on the deaths/1M if it were it's own country. Like Top-20-Worst-Countries bad. Cases would be Top 30.

 

At the end of the day, we're all living in a country that's still suffering from an unchecked pandemic. Going to eat outdoors is much safer than going indoors, or to bars, or to family gatherings and other higher risk activities. But it's still a higher risk than simply staying home; you know, the personally responsible thing to do. It's a risk that you or someone else will get infected and the pandemic will continue to spread and we'll all keep suffering the consequences indefinitely.

14 minutes ago, Texsox said:

And when they don't they need to be held accountable not told that personal responsibility doesn't matter.

 

Holding people accountable after the fact doesn't bring 200,000 people and counting back to life.

 

Personal responsibility is necessary but very clearly far from sufficient. The key to this is and always has been and will always be public policy.

Edited October 5, 2020 by StrangeSox