COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[StrangeSox]

Stories of overwhelmed hospitals are popping up across the country, and epidemiologists are warning that it's only going to get worse in the coming weeks and months.

 

[NWINFan]

I agree with The Beast says for several reasons. We need more civility in the public debate because it will be easier to find possible solutions by hearing all sides and possibilities. And it just makes for a better society.

So far, we have approached the Pandemic in a political way when it isn't political. We can argue about masks and civil liberties and the whole the rest, but the pandemic is putting an incredible strain on our health system. I really don't think that is debatable. No only are we having trouble providing care for COVID patients, people with other serious illnesses are being neglected, too. There is nothing political about that, and it is much larger than Trump or Biden. The denial game doesn't help, either.

[Balta1701]

28 minutes ago, The Beast said:

I know there are rules in this forum, but your lost was thought provoking and I thought I would mention some of what I have been thinking since I think it adds to the discussion quite nicely.

One of the things I have been thinking of post election is how there’s a certain segment of my race and gender (white male) that chooses to emulate the kind of behavior that the president shows towards people of a different persuasion, posting memes and shared posts that fits their views and ganging up with their tribe on anyone who disagrees with them. If the president gets re-elected, I think we will see more of that and that gets in the way of the progress I want to see with unity in the country.

I was very upset when he won in 2016 and critiqued his every move when he entered office. I had the unique opportunity to talk to some of his supporters in person at a work event and heard how they didn’t like being labeled racist, sexist, etc. and have some sought to understand why the electorate voted and continue to vote for him, whether it is immigration, economic situations, etc. I have also done this by reading news of different persuasions and listening to different podcasts on people who support and vote for him to complement hearing views from people who I know don’t.

I still think that labeling others is dangerous since not everyone fits in the same party and has the same beliefs. At the federal level, I voted democratic because I disapprove of the Senate and the administration, but locally, I voted republican because I don’t approve of how the Illinois Democratic Party handles fiscal policy. What I am getting at is there is more nuance to voters and not everyone votes a straight ticket.

As Americans, we have to find a way to engage in a healthy debate or in productive conversion over policy without being tribal, playing whataboutism games or personally attacking others. I also think it is better to adapt diversity and inclusion for the sake of coming together, having empathy for others and trying to understand others. I hope this is what we see because that will make our nation stronger. It might be aspirational but so is the experiment we have had the privilege to live in for hundreds of years.

I have one important thought I want you to consider in reply. Being able to say “we need to come together without being tribal” is a privilege allowed only to certain tribes. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

I agree with The Beast says for several reasons. We need more civility in the public debate because it will be easier to find possible solutions by hearing all sides and possibilities. And it just makes for a better society.

So far, we have approached the Pandemic in a political way when it isn't political. We can argue about masks and civil liberties and the whole the rest, but the pandemic is putting an incredible strain on our health system. I really don't think that is debatable. No only are we having trouble providing care for COVID patients, people with other serious illnesses are being neglected, too. There is nothing political about that, and it is much larger than Trump or Biden. The denial game doesn't help, either.

Please tell this fairly powerful person how that isn’t debatable.

You can’t tell me how the problem we have is a lack of civil discussion when this is the leader of one political party and the current president. The president literally said that you are wrong about everything you said we can all agree on and that by saying it you are a loser who is just trying to steal the election and saying that should be a crime.

[Quin]

19 hours ago, greg775 said:

The question is how long Americans will be ordered to stay home. It's definitely going to be a wild period in US history.

Going to be?

[StrangeSox]

Public health policy is fundamentally both a scientific and political question. There's no way to strip the politics out of public policy.

[The Beast]

7 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I have one important thought I want you to consider in reply. Being able to say “we need to come together without being tribal” is a privilege allowed only to certain tribes. 

Can you please explain further?

[greg775]

8 hours ago, NWINFan said:

We need more civility in the public debate because it will be easier to find possible solutions by hearing all sides and possibilities. And it just makes for a better society.

I was listening to the Howard Stern show and it is a microcosm of the hatred going on in America. Ralph said flat out that because Ronnie won't reveal who he is voting for Ronnie is scum. He told him that to his face. He said if you are not willing to denounce Trump you are dead to Ralph. ... Whenever I hear stuff like this and read between the lines with some posters, I realize some posters on here and people like Ralph are declaring about half of America scum. Because believe it or not, about half the country prefers Trump over Joe. Just as Hillary had more than half, but Trump got A LOT of votes.

I shudder to think Americans like Ralph on the Stern show DESPISE those who will vote for Trump. Ralph said flat out they are dead to him, no matter how close they were before. "This is too important!!!" Ralph screamed. Cmon people. We don't need to have a Civil War. You know, I voted for Obama twice and some say I'm conservative. I don't despise anybody over politics for gosh sakes. But Ralph has proven many want to bash heads of people just because they vote for Trump. I say WOW.

[Jerksticks]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

I was listening to the Howard Stern show and it is a microcosm of the hatred going on in America. Ralph said flat out that because Ronnie won't reveal who he is voting for Ronnie is scum. He told him that to his face. He said if you are not willing to denounce Trump you are dead to Ralph. ... Whenever I hear stuff like this and read between the lines with some posters, I realize some posters on here and people like Ralph are declaring about half of America scum. Because believe it or not, about half the country prefers Trump over Joe. Just as Hillary had more than half, but Trump got A LOT of votes.

I shudder to think Americans like Ralph on the Stern show DESPISE those who will vote for Trump. Ralph said flat out they are dead to him, no matter how close they were before. "This is too important!!!" Ralph screamed. Cmon people. We don't need to have a Civil War. You know, I voted for Obama twice and some say I'm conservative. I don't despise anybody over politics for gosh sakes. But Ralph has proven many want to bash heads of people just because they vote for Trump. I say WOW.

Greg, that’s just what nice, loving people say these days

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

I was listening to the Howard Stern show and it is a microcosm of the hatred going on in America. Ralph said flat out that because Ronnie won't reveal who he is voting for Ronnie is scum. He told him that to his face. He said if you are not willing to denounce Trump you are dead to Ralph. ... Whenever I hear stuff like this and read between the lines with some posters, I realize some posters on here and people like Ralph are declaring about half of America scum. Because believe it or not, about half the country prefers Trump over Joe. Just as Hillary had more than half, but Trump got A LOT of votes.

I shudder to think Americans like Ralph on the Stern show DESPISE those who will vote for Trump. Ralph said flat out they are dead to him, no matter how close they were before. "This is too important!!!" Ralph screamed. Cmon people. We don't need to have a Civil War. You know, I voted for Obama twice and some say I'm conservative. I don't despise anybody over politics for gosh sakes. But Ralph has proven many want to bash heads of people just because they vote for Trump. I say WOW.

Considering which Presidential candidate is encouraging armed sedition against political figures and leads the world in name calling,  I can't feel bad when someone returns the same attitude that the President is giving them.

[greg775]

35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Considering which Presidential candidate is encouraging armed sedition against political figures and leads the world in name calling,  I can't feel bad when someone returns the same attitude that the President is giving them.

It's sad when lifelong friendships and family relationships end over a person's voting preference. Politics shouldn't cause people to want to punch former best friends. No need for another Civil War.

[southsider2k5]

8 hours ago, greg775 said:

It's sad when lifelong friendships and family relationships end over a person's voting preference. Politics shouldn't cause people to want to punch former best friends. No need for another Civil War.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

This is the current Rt calculated for each state. Above 1 (red) means case rates are growing.

[southsider2k5]

Damn you Mississippi we would have had a perfect score!  Oh wait.

[StrangeSox]

We're rounding the corner. You won't hear anything about COVID after 11/4. It's all a hoax. Clearly, we all want the same thing.

[greg775]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

 

Yep, both sides are ending lifelong friendships and family relationships over politics. So sad. As Ralph said on Stern he wants nothing to do with any family member or friend who will not vote for Biden. And same on the other side. They want to bash heads of anybody who votes against Trump. Then there are the people like me who would NEVER end a friendship over politics or family relationship. I WOULD IGNORE WHAT THEY ARE SAYING and look at why I have developed a relationship with them in the first place. I would never discount an internal war over politics. It could easily be coming.

[southsider2k5]

39 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Yep, both sides are ending lifelong friendships and family relationships over politics. So sad. As Ralph said on Stern he wants nothing to do with any family member or friend who will not vote for Biden. And same on the other side. They want to bash heads of anybody who votes against Trump. Then there are the people like me who would NEVER end a friendship over politics or family relationship. I WOULD IGNORE WHAT THEY ARE SAYING and look at why I have developed a relationship with them in the first place. I would never discount an internal war over politics. It could easily be coming.

 

[Iwritecode]

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is if you really want to be friends with someone that supports and admires a man that makes fun of disabled people, brags about walking into dressing rooms full of underage girls, thinks that nazis are "very fine people" and makes fun of people that wear masks during a national pandemic just to name a few things.

I would hope that I do a better job of picking friends. I have people on FB that support him but they are only "facebook friends". Nobody I really associate IRL. Honestly, there are a couple that I've only stayed friends with because it's sometimes fun countering all the stupid crap they post/believe.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Iwritecode

[Marky Mark]

14 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is if you really want to be friends with someone that supports and admires a man that makes fun of disabled people, brags about walking into dressing rooms full of underage girls, thinks that nazis are "very fine people" and makes fun of people that wear masks during a national pandemic just to name a few things.

I would hope that I do a better job of picking friends. I have people on FB that support him but they are only "facebook friends". Nobody I really associate IRL. Honestly, there are a couple that I've only stayed friends with because it's sometimes fun countering all the stupid crap they post/believe.

 

If you really do view anyone who is voting for Trump in such black and white lenses, then I feel bad for you that you view the world and people around you that way.

[ron883]

24 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is if you really want to be friends with someone that supports and admires a man that makes fun of disabled people, brags about walking into dressing rooms full of underage girls, thinks that nazis are "very fine people" and makes fun of people that wear masks during a national pandemic just to name a few things.

I would hope that I do a better job of picking friends. I have people on FB that support him but they are only "facebook friends". Nobody I really associate IRL. Honestly, there are a couple that I've only stayed friends with because it's sometimes fun countering all the stupid crap they post/believe.

Ah yes, this is exactly what he said. Word for word. 

[Iwritecode]

1 hour ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Ah yes, this is exactly what he said. Word for word. 

Yes, the words I put in quotes were the exact words he said. The 2 "sides" he was talking about were protesters and neo-Nazis. 

 

Quote

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

 

I didn't even bring up the fact that he told the Proud Boys to stand back and stand by. Which they were very fired up about.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Iwritecode

[Jose Abreu]

58 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Ah yes, this is exactly what he said. Word for word. 

I completely agree

[Jose Abreu]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

Yep, both sides are ending lifelong friendships and family relationships over politics. So sad. As Ralph said on Stern he wants nothing to do with any family member or friend who will not vote for Biden. And same on the other side. They want to bash heads of anybody who votes against Trump. Then there are the people like me who would NEVER end a friendship over politics or family relationship. I WOULD IGNORE WHAT THEY ARE SAYING and look at why I have developed a relationship with them in the first place. I would never discount an internal war over politics. It could easily be coming.

Why should I want to be friends with somebody who thinks I deserve fewer rights than they do? Sounds like a bad friend to me

[Quin]

And now, we return to discussing COVID.

[pcq]

2 hours ago, Iwritecode said:

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is if you really want to be friends with someone that supports and admires a man that makes fun of disabled people, brags about walking into dressing rooms full of underage girls, thinks that nazis are "very fine people" and makes fun of people that wear masks during a national pandemic just to name a few things.

I would hope that I do a better job of picking friends. I have people on FB that support him but they are only "facebook friends". Nobody I really associate IRL. Honestly, there are a couple that I've only stayed friends with because it's sometimes fun countering all the stupid crap they post/believe.

The answer is some people like pro-lifers are voting for the team not the captain. There is no way to establish Trump's fitness objectively but many keep trying which is silly.