COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[Middle Buffalo]

Guys, the election is over. We can stop pretending COVID is a thing.

[Balta1701]

The data presented by AstraZeneca is of substantially lower quality than that of the other two drug makers and it is entirely likely that their permit request for emergency use will be turned down in the US. 

https://www.wired.com/story/the-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-data-isnt-up-to-snuff/

[pcq]

The Astra detail is booster first then regular dose second got a 90. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

The Astra detail is booster first then regular dose second got a 90. 

Read the article. They actually didn't test that method in a significant amount and weren't even planning to originally, it started as an accident when they made a dosing mistake. The other 2 methodologies from Pfizer and Moderna have been constant and tested tens of thousands of times, the AstraZeneca one they tested a couple different methodologies, varied the procedure for the placebo rather than keeping it constant, and didn't present a full plan for the vaccination campaign beforehand (which you should do if you want to evaluate your test - set the standards you will use to evaluate success first).

Based on that, AstraZeneca should submit a full, detailed plan to test a 1/2 dose first followed by a full dose, go into the field in the US, and do a full retest over the next 3 months. There are plenty of cases here to try that. If that Wired description is right, then it should not be used here and I would not take it without additional data collection.

[Dick Allen]

Do they have any idea how long the vaccines keep you safe?

[mqr]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Do they have any idea how long the vaccines keep you safe?

I’ll try to find it, but there was recently a study that said immunity will last a lot longer than we initially thought. Like several years. 

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Do they have any idea how long the vaccines keep you safe?

 

2 hours ago, mqr said:

I’ll try to find it, but there was recently a study that said immunity will last a lot longer than we initially thought. Like several years. 

On 11/17/2020 at 1:48 PM, mqr said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/health/coronavirus-immunity.html

 

That study suggests "T Cell immunity hasn't gone away in 8 months and isnt likely to go away any time soon." That could mean 12 months, 18 months, 20 years, they have some reason for hope but there's still issues.  I think there's good reason to suspect that a person with T Cell immunity might still be able to acquire and transmit this thing, even if they don't show strong symptoms. Deep down, I'm guessing we're seeing that right now.

Furthermore, the vaccine immunity and the viral immunity aren't required to work the same way. 

From a personal perspective, "hope for the best, but have a plan for the worst" seems reasonable. If you get the vaccine, still act like you can transmit it until you're sure the virus is dead in the human population, and wait for professional health guidance next year.

[Balta1701]

 

Congrats! I’m sure the Bible says something about dying of a disease.

[greg775]

On 11/24/2020 at 9:58 PM, Balta1701 said:

FWIW, standing in crowds at a terminal waiting for security/boarding is likely notably worse. On the plane, there is a controlled airflow path with fairly high air movement rates. In a crowd, anything you breathe out just settles on the rest of the crowd.

I don't know if they are allowing 3 to sit in a row (I think they are). If so ... case closed it's about the most dangerous place you could be re. COVID. Why? My gosh, I'd say half the time I fly SW, the person in the middle is all over me during the flight. THERE'S NOT ENOUGH SPACE. Somebody lets out a cough, cmon. COVID! I do agree the hurried packed security lines also would be bad. People are fumbling for their stuff trying to hurry and yes people are in their personal space spreading GERMS. I tell you you hear nothing about air travel. If they ever shutdown cities again and make us stay in for 2 weeks, it's insane to allow air travel. Insane.

Edited November 26, 2020 by greg775

[greg775]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 

Congrats! I’m sure the Bible says something about dying of a disease.

Trust me, you'd feel safe in our church on Sunday. 3 to a pew max and it's a long pew. About 30-50 people total for 45 minute Mass (masks required) in a HUGE church. This folks is not a problem. Just is not.

[Stinky Stanky]

On 11/24/2020 at 9:58 PM, Balta1701 said:

FWIW, standing in crowds at a terminal waiting for security/boarding is likely notably worse. On the plane, there is a controlled airflow path with fairly high air movement rates. In a crowd, anything you breathe out just settles on the rest of the crowd.

Sounds like one is You Catch It and the other is It Catches You.  Same difference, IMO

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Stinky Stanky said:

Sounds like one is You Catch It and the other is It Catches You.  Same difference, IMO

The question is how many people get an infectious dose from a single sick person. Planes have to have thought through an air flow path because otherwise people suffocate from CO2 buildup. It’s not perfect but they do move a fair amount of air. One person might infect the people around them but hopefully not the next 20 people. In a line indoors, without ventilation, the air just hangs out and gets everyone around an infected person, and if several people have it the concentration may go up over time.

[Danny Dravot]

12 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

 

Congrats! I’m sure the Bible says something about dying of a disease.

I saw a summary of this injunction as banning authorities from requiring fewer people in a church than they would in a restaurant and from treating the right to protest as more important than the right to worship. I’m all for restrictions but they have to treat everyone equally. Do you see a reason why this shouldn’t be the case?

[Kyyle23]

12 hours ago, greg775 said:

Trust me, you'd feel safe in our church on Sunday. 3 to a pew max and it's a long pew. About 30-50 people total for 45 minute Mass (masks required) in a HUGE church. This folks is not a problem. Just is not.

All you have to do is google "church COVID deaths" to disprove this bullshit.  This is absolutely a problem 

 

not that you would actually do research 

[Kyyle23]

52 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

I saw a summary of this injunction as banning authorities from requiring fewer people in a church than they would in a restaurant and from treating the right to protest as more important than the right to worship. I’m all for restrictions but they have to treat everyone equally. Do you see a reason why this shouldn’t be the case?

In high infection rate zones it should be equal, they both get no attendees until you can get the infection rate down.  Buh buh masks buh buh religious liberty

 

people just don't care about other people anymore.  It's bullshit, things are getting worse and people want to just allow open spread and say it's fine because of these fucking morons filling their heads with anti science shit

[Balta1701]

52 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

I saw a summary of this injunction as banning authorities from requiring fewer people in a church than they would in a restaurant and from treating the right to protest as more important than the right to worship. I’m all for restrictions but they have to treat everyone equally. Do you see a reason why this shouldn’t be the case?

Rather the opposite. Religion had less restrictive rules than anything else, even less than in home gatherings. 

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/covid/covid-19-localized-restrictions.pdf

Under an orange zone, all indoor restaurants were closed and limited to outdoor dining or takeout, gyms and hair salons are closed, schools are remote unless they meet a testing standard, and you could face a $15,000 fine for a private gathering with more than 10 people. Churches, however, could have up to 25 people.

Under a red zone, outdoor dining is banned, all private gatherings of people are banned and subject to a $15,000 fine, but churches could still have up to 10 people.

In both cases, churches were allowed larger crowds than anything else, and yet that was too restrictive. By your standard you should strongly disagree with this ruling.

[Danny Dravot]

29 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Rather the opposite. Religion had less restrictive rules than anything else, even less than in home gatherings. 

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/covid/covid-19-localized-restrictions.pdf

Under an orange zone, all indoor restaurants were closed and limited to outdoor dining or takeout, gyms and hair salons are closed, schools are remote unless they meet a testing standard, and you could face a $15,000 fine for a private gathering with more than 10 people. Churches, however, could have up to 25 people.

Under a red zone, outdoor dining is banned, all private gatherings of people are banned and subject to a $15,000 fine, but churches could still have up to 10 people.

In both cases, churches were allowed larger crowds than anything else, and yet that was too restrictive. By your standard you should strongly disagree with this ruling.

Thanks. I didn’t read the entire opinion and I don’t live anywhere near NY. If that’s the case, then yes, I disagree.

[Danny Dravot]

@Balta1701

“In a red zone, while a synagogue or church may not admit more than 10 persons, businesses categorized as “essential” may admit as many people as they wish. And the list of “essential” businesses includes things such as acupuncture facilities, camp grounds, garages, as well as many whose services are not limited to those that can be regarded as es- sential, such as all plants manufacturing chemicals and mi- croelectronics and all transportation facilities. See New York State, Empire State Development, Guidance for De- termining Whether a Business Enterprise is Subject to a Workforce Reduction Under Recent Executive Orders, https://esd.ny.gov/guidance-executive-order-2026. The disparate treatment is even more striking in an orange zone. While attendance at houses of worship is limited to 25 per- sons, even non-essential businesses may decide for them- selves how many persons to admit.”

I can’t quite square this description from the actual decision with what you sent me, but I don’t imagine SCOTUS would lie about factual details of a case...

[greg775]

12 hours ago, Danny Dravot said:

I saw a summary of this injunction as banning authorities from requiring fewer people in a church than they would in a restaurant and from treating the right to protest as more important than the right to worship. I’m all for restrictions but they have to treat everyone equally. Do you see a reason why this shouldn’t be the case?

Until they treat everyone the same, the churches have every right to responsibly hold services. You will never convince me what my church is doing isn't proper. Have you folks seen a huge church? Put 3 people max in a row every 4th row. Masks required; hand cleanser used by priest and everybody in church. 50 people max in a church that holds 1000. Cmon. If everything gets shut down, fine, shut down the churches. If everything is not shut down, let people of faith have their ONE outlet. Prayer and worship in their churches. You think suicide is rampant without community? I do.

I saw a picture of a church service in an article that said church services are dangerous. I'll agree. The church was packed in the photo I saw, JUST LIKE airplanes and airport terminals. Responsible churches are not packed and totally socially distanced. The protests?? Superspreaders baby. The liquor stores? Cmon. Crowded. Superspreaders. BE FAIR or let us go to church if the church leaders limit the nos of people!!

Edited November 27, 2020 by greg775

[Kyyle23]

Be fair and let us all kill each other is quite a hill 

[Dick Allen]

7 hours ago, greg775 said:

Until they treat everyone the same, the churches have every right to responsibly hold services. You will never convince me what my church is doing isn't proper. Have you folks seen a huge church? Put 3 people max in a row every 4th row. Masks required; hand cleanser used by priest and everybody in church. 50 people max in a church that holds 1000. Cmon. If everything gets shut down, fine, shut down the churches. If everything is not shut down, let people of faith have their ONE outlet. Prayer and worship in their churches. You think suicide is rampant without community? I do.

I saw a picture of a church service in an article that said church services are dangerous. I'll agree. The church was packed in the photo I saw, JUST LIKE airplanes and airport terminals. Responsible churches are not packed and totally socially distanced. The protests?? Superspreaders baby. The liquor stores? Cmon. Crowded. Superspreaders. BE FAIR or let us go to church if the church leaders limit the nos of people!!

Did you read the thing SCOTUS shot down?  You should probably read it, then read what you are preaching. It’s basically the same thing. You are arguing against what you are preaching. Are you Terry Bevington?

Edited November 27, 2020 by Dick Allen

[NWINFan]

Had Thanksgiving with friends and family on Zoom. Actually worked pretty well, even better than when people were sitting around a table. There are ways to cope with this thing.

[Quin]

Greg supports 7,000 person weddings.

[Harry Chappas]

I have not attended church since  March but give online.  Every service should just be online with a manner of giving to local organization.  We do not need to go in person at this point.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

Greg supports 7,000 person weddings.

Just wondered, am I allowed to post how they celebrated Thanksgiving on the Portland streets?