COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[StrangeSox]

I'm not exactly up on the PRC's governmental structure, but they're not a federalist government with most police/restrictive powers devolved down to the state/province level, are they?

 

The interesting thing with the international response to COVID is that there's not an obvious overlap you can point to for countries that managed to keep things under control or even nearly completely isolated. Australia and New Zealand are western anglophone/culturally anglo liberal democracies; one is heavily federal like the US and currently run by a conservative government, the other a centralized government run by Labour. Both islands, but many other island countries didn't fair as well. Vietnam is a single-party communist state and pretty poor but has done well. China is a geographically massive communist/state-controlled economy strong central government that did well (even if you want to assume they covered up say 10x the cases and deaths). The others you mentioned are all varying degrees of democracy and liberalized market economies vs. state control, different culturally, and other nations with governments, economics, geographies, and experiences similar in the past did poorly. There's no one magic bullet for why any particular country 'got it right'.

[greg775]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

That China manufactured it as a bio weapon  to take over the world?

Some say YES and the next one will be the big big big one now that they know they have the power to do it and the power to maybe just release something in America. We never thought the USA would be shut down for 15 months. Anything is possible in the future regarding biological warfare and attacks on our grid. Just a thought. Happy Memorial Day all.

[southsider2k5]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

“Here we report the identification of SARS-CoV-2-related coronaviruses in Malayan pangolins (Manis javanica) seized in anti-smuggling operations in southern China. Metagenomic sequencing identified pangolin-associated coronaviruses that belong to two sub-lineages of SARS-CoV-2-related coronaviruses, including one that exhibits strong similarity in the receptor-binding domain to SARS-CoV-2. The discovery of multiple lineages of pangolin coronavirus and their similarity to SARS-CoV-2 suggests that pangolins should be considered as possible hosts in the emergence of new coronaviruses and should be removed from wet markets to prevent zoonotic transmission.”

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2169-0

Is it possible that researchers got sick in the lab, and spread it from there to the hospital/s?

Sure.

Is it possible it spread through the wet market, the original theory?

Sure.

Or that it is somehow connected to the illegal trade of pangolins between China, Vietnam and Cambodia?

Sure.

And bats/caves in southern or southwestern China?

Sure.

That China manufactured it as a bio weapon  to take over the world?

Much less likely?  Why unleash it on their own population?  Why make it highly transmissible but roughly only 3-5x worse than the common flu and something that impacts, what, 0.004-0.006% of world populations?   Why wouldn’t it be manufactured to be more like Ebola, SARs or MERs?   Or like releasing the Bubonic Plague/Black Death again?

The part that makes this is big leap is that they had to correctly ascertain that the right countries wouldn't take this seriously enough, quickly enough, for this to be effective.  Essentially if this was targeted at the west, they had to gamble that the West would value commerce over life, and allow a LOT of people to die in that pursuit.  If they quickly and effectively shutdown and attacked this, it wouldn't have been an effective weapon.

The second part is that to be able to call this a bio-weapon, you also have to accept as fact that COVID was a very deadly pandemic, and that taking precautions against it IS the right thing to do.  Otherwise if it isn't worth being vaccinated, masked, and distanced against, it was a pretty crappy bio weapon.

[bmags]

I think it's been nice to just know the numbers have been gradually going down but today's numbers in IL were just 1.3% positives (897 cases out of 67k specimens). The 7-day positivity rate is now below 2%.

Add to that IL is now up to 67% with first dose and staying pretty close to 70k/day.

[greg775]

20 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Otherwise if it isn't worth being vaccinated, masked, and distanced against, it was a pretty crappy bio weapon.

A devil's advocate would say it was pretty effective disruptor for their first attempt at world wide bio-warfare domination and you ain't seen nothin yet when Round Two hits. Those making the assumption the virus was man made may have a very wary, disdainful view of China and/or Russia. People criticize the USA for many atrocities whereas some feel as if China, while ruthless, is not getting its atrocities talked about enough (kissy relationship with NBA and other businesses that want to do business with China). Just giving the devil's advocate side.

p.s. Did USA officials ever figure out who hacked the pipeline yet and why? 

[Iwritecode]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

p.s. Did USA officials ever figure out who hacked the pipeline yet and why? 

Literally a 2-second google search reveals this...

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57050690

Quote

A number of cyber-security researchers, including firms contacted by the BBC, have speculated that the cyber-criminal gang could be Russian, as their software avoids encrypting any computer systems where the language is set as Russian.

Quote

Sources said the ransomware attack was likely to have been caused by a cyber-criminal gang called DarkSide, who infiltrated Colonial's network and locked the data on some computers and servers, demanding a ransom on Friday.

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

On 5/26/2021 at 1:42 PM, greg775 said:

Of course some people believe that. Some people believe China and Russia are up to no good regarding their rival, the USA and regarding possible world domination. I watch some Australian TV and they have given up on the USA as a superpower friend who will help them if China ever attacks. They say we are no longer a superpower, in fact, we are behind China, Russia and N. Korea. Of course some believe we have enemies. Will I give my opinion? Heck no I won't discuss such issues .... not in 2021. EVER.

So, you watched sky news Australia, AKA another Murdock turd that exists to lead the naive and the stoopud around by the balls?

Greg, we've covered this already. If you really want to make your life better, reduce your intake of outright shit. Stop feeding your brain bullshit. And just reduce your intake of "news."

 

Here's a thought for you:

1. Cut your consumption  of "news" to 1x/day, for less than 30 min/day.

2. Read books, especially non-partisan books, and avoid partisan bullshit.

3. Get some exercise everyday.

4. Meet and connect with people who are different from you, especially successful people who come from a different background from you.

 

If you do this, your life and your mind and your mentality will greatly improve. You won't be able to recognize yourself, and it'll be for the better. I believe there's a happy, well-adjusted, good guy in there somewhere. You just need to unleash this. Good luck.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[Two-Gun Pete]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:48 AM, raBBit said:

I posted about the media's 180 regarding the potential lab leak that was previously debunked by supposed top media orgs but is now being accepted.

Meh, I don't see any evidence of this, at least not outside of fox/oan/other bullshit networks.

 

And even if fox/oan/other bullshit members of "the media" want to criticize "the media," maybe others would take them at their word if they weren't 100% water-carriers for that administration.  Maybe that administration shouldn't have spent 3+ years telling lies. When a person gets a reputation for, like, literally bullshitting about, like, EVERYTHING, it makes it less likely that others will take them at their word.

IOW, maybe there is/was a consequence to lying, "alternative facts," and bullshit. If they'd been more about the truth, then maybe "the media" might have been more willing to accept what they were saying.

YMMV.

[RTC]

28 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Here's a thought for you:

1. Cut your consumption  of "news" to 1x/day, for less than 30 min/day.

2. Read books, especially non-partisan books, and avoid partisan bullshit.

3. Get some exercise everyday.

4. Meet and connect with people who are different from you, especially successful people who come from a different background from you.

 

If you do this, your life and your mind and your mentality will greatly improve. You won't be able to recognize yourself, and it'll be for the better. I believe there's a happy, well-adjusted, good guy in there somewhere. You just need to unleash this. Good luck.

I would add:

5. Never, under any circumstances, turn the tv on after 5pm.  Any “news” channel is no longer news at that point (most BARELY are before that)

6. Delete all your social media accounts 

[CentralChamps21]

33 minutes ago, RTC said:

I would add:

5. Never, under any circumstances, turn the tv on after 5pm.  Any “news” channel is no longer news at that point (most BARELY are before that)

Have you checked out NewsNation (formerly WGN America)? They have a primetime newscast that seems to be pretty straight news.

[raBBit]

1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Meh, I don't see any evidence of this, at least not outside of fox/oan/other bullshit networks.

 

And even if fox/oan/other bullshit members of "the media" want to criticize "the media," maybe others would take them at their word if they weren't 100% water-carriers for that administration.  Maybe that administration shouldn't have spent 3+ years telling lies. When a person gets a reputation for, like, literally bullshitting about, like, EVERYTHING, it makes it less likely that others will take them at their word.

 IOW, maybe there is/was a consequence to lying, "alternative facts," and bullshit. If they'd been more about the truth, then maybe "the media" might have been more willing to accept what they were saying.

 YMMV.

I mean you have the "fact checkers" who ruled out this possibility as a conspiracy theory. Declared it false. They are now updating their "facts" to be different. You don't have to be so partisan about it. The media said one thing and said it emphatically, a year later they're saying the opposite. It's not that hard to follow nor does the media deserve you or anyone defending it. It seems they deliberately deceived the public because lying about the truth was better for their numbers. 

[StrangeSox]

DuPage County is leading the way in Illinois vaccinations, and it's showing in the results:

 

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

I mean you have the "fact checkers" who ruled out this possibility as a conspiracy theory. Declared it false. They are now updating their "facts" to be different. You don't have to be so partisan about it. The media said one thing and said it emphatically, a year later they're saying the opposite. It's not that hard to follow nor does the media deserve you or anyone defending it. It seems they deliberately deceived the public because lying about the truth was better for their numbers. 

Got a link for any of this? (And not some bullshit water-carrier outlet for the previous administration, someone neutral.)

To the bolded, if you've got a non-bullshit link, I'm game. Absent that, I'm more inclined to posit that bullshit artists who lie about everyfuckingthing are unlikely to be believed.

And so, when you try to tell the world that your height and weight matches A Rod's, maybe they wont believe you when you tell the world that it was some conspiracy behind COVID.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 hours ago, RTC said:

I would add:

5. Never, under any circumstances, turn the tv on after 5pm.  Any “news” channel is no longer news at that point (most BARELY are before that)

6. Delete all your social media accounts 

These aren't bad ideas, but to #6:

Forums like Soxtalk are/were the primitive precursors to today's social media.

 

Now, I'll wholeheartedly agree that controlling your social media exposures fall under the idea of "controlling your associations." Like most people, I've had to struggle with an appropriate degree of social media exposures; I've also squandered too much time posting on forums here and there.

 

Now, I don't have farcebook, Twitter, or Instagram. I do keep LinkedIn for business, and am on soxtalk, a board for my motorcycle, and bigsoccer, as these fora match some interests i have. But I still have to choose how much time, and what I post on. (And sometimes, I catch myself on these boards too long.)

 

But someone who is easily led about by "the media" can equally be shackled by the balls by social media. I think for some, your addenda have solid merit.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[StrangeSox]

A tale of two countries:

 

 

 

 

The  B.1.617.2 or "Indian" variant appears to spread even faster the the B.1.17 "UK" variant, and it's currently becoming dominant in the UK. The UK has AZ/Oxford as about half their total vaccinations so far I think. I'm not sure if B.1.617.2 has made its way to Israel yet, but they only used Pfizer/Moderna mRNA vaccines.

[RTC]

5 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

These aren't bad ideas, but to #6:

Forums like Soxtalk are/were the primitive precursors to today's social media.Now, I'll wholeheartedly agree that controlling your social media exposures fall under the idea of "controlling your associations." Like most people, I've had to struggle with an appropriate degree of social media exposures; I've also squandered too much time posting on forums here and there.

Now, I don't have farcebook, Twitter, or Instagram. I do keep LinkedIn for business, and am on soxtalk, a board for my motorcycle, and bigsoccer, as these fora match some interests i have. But I still have to choose how much time, and what I post on. (And sometimes, I catch myself on these boards too long.)

Point taken for sure.  Damn, pesky Sox fans …. 

[greg775]

Facebook is OK for family photos and updates; Yes some political loudmouths on there and some very rude people, but not "that" many cause family members usually come to the rescue to save family members unduly attacked.

Twitter? Twitter is the scourge of the earth. People with fake names for the most part tearing apart those who tweet with their real names. Twitter is a bad, bad place with really no redeeming qualities. Oh it might be good to get a sports update as soon as it happens. Big deal. ESPN.com and mlb.com could serve that purpose. Twitter? Ouch! it's bad.

Edited May 29, 2021 by greg775

[raBBit]

https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/1399932956307771397?s=20

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by raBBit

[caulfield12]

53 minutes ago, raBBit said:

https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/1399932956307771397?s=20

 

So if they were experimenting with a bat-based coronavirus and mutating it...and it got out somehow, what next?

More anti-Asian hate incidents?

Complete isolation of China on the world stage, which would make a war or confrontation likelier?

Breaking off all trade?  So we are going to subsidize Midwestern and Rust Belt farmers for decades?  Cancelling the Olympics?

Public executions of Fauci and Dazsak?

Some of the features potentially look engineered...that’s not exactly going to win most debate tournaments.

[raBBit]

14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

So if they were experimenting with a bat-based coronavirus and mutating it...and it got out somehow, what next?

More anti-Asian hate incidents?

 Complete isolation of China on the world stage, which would make a war or confrontation likelier?

 Breaking off all trade?  So we are going to subsidize Midwestern and Rust Belt farmers for decades?  Cancelling the Olympics?

 Public executions of Fauci and Dazsak?
Some of the features potentially look engineered...that’s not exactly going to win most debate tournaments.

They were saying there was no chance of a lab leak or anything engineered publicly. Privately they had much different positions. That's the point.

Not sure why you're trying to make a case to ignore the truth. Fauci, for one, should be investigated and be held responsible. They should investigate it all. 

[southsider2k5]

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 hours ago, raBBit said:

They were saying there was no chance of a lab leak or anything engineered publicly. Privately they had much different positions. That's the point.

Not sure why you're trying to make a case to ignore the truth. Fauci, for one, should be investigated and be held responsible. They should investigate it all. 

Ok, let me try to understand what you're posting here:

1. You're claiming that all of "The Media" reported that COVID-19 was not lab created.

2. You're now claiming that all of "The Media," both here in the US, and across the Western World, conspired together to "do a 180."

QUESTION: Does that make any sense at all?

Sub-question: Does "The Media" include water carriers for the previous administration, or is this just a ginned-up verbal device to sound as scary as possible to the weak-minded and naive?

 

Now, you're calling for Dr. Fauci to "be investigated." A few quick questions for you:

1. What, exactly, would you "investigate?"

2. What purported offense has occurred here?

3. (Most importantly) Can you spell out what, exactly, would be Dr. Fauci's means/motive/opportunity to offend? (IOW, "Cui Bono?")

4. Do you understand the THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD, and how it works?

 

Thanks in advance.

[raBBit]

4 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ok, let me try to understand what you're posting here:

1. You're claiming that all of "The Media" reported that COVID-19 was not lab created.

-The corporate state media said it was a conspiracy theory that the virus came from a lab leak and declared it unequivocally false via "fact checks" that they have since quietly retracted. They have admitted they were wrong. Several of them. This is not my opinion. Do they all have bad sources? Do they all have bad intelligence? It's very curious.

2. You're now claiming that all of "The Media," both here in the US, and across the Western World, conspired together to "do a 180."

-I did not say anything about any conspiracy or the media groups working together. Please refer me to the quote if you see it otherwise but these seem like your own projections.

QUESTION: Does that make any sense at all?

Sub-question: Does "The Media" include water carriers for the previous administration, or is this just a ginned-up verbal device to sound as scary as possible to the weak-minded and naive?

-I am referring to the media companies (of which there are several) that have recanted on the falsehoods they previously reported. I never said anything about the previous administration. I don't know what you think is ginned up about this recent development nor do I understand why you are throwing out vague insults at swaths of people. Why so angry?

Now, you're calling for Dr. Fauci to "be investigated." A few quick questions for you:

1. What, exactly, would you "investigate?"

-The origin of the virus

-Where groups that Fauci has work with have put their money?

-Facui's relationship to the lab in question, China, etc.? 

-Fauci and his gain of function research, the results of it, where it's been performed, etc.  

2. What purported offense has occurred here?

-I am asking for an investigation to figure that out. I don't think Fauci has been lying and flip-flopping for the past year and a half because of incompetence. He's supposed to be the country's top disease official. Why is lying to the public and why is he wrong so consistently? The country deserves better. 

3. (Most importantly) Can you spell out what, exactly, would be Dr. Fauci's means/motive/opportunity to offend? (IOW, "Cui Bono?")

-This is what the investigation is for. He can't possibly be working in good faith with the track record he has. With just about everything he has said since this has all started, he has either came out and said the opposite later, been subsequently proven false or both. Incompetence broadcasted in his regular briefings for the world to watch. All recorded and a matter of public record. 

4. Do you understand the THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD, and how it works?

-Why do you have to be so condescending? Why are you so angry at the new information being released? Why are you so upset with the facts surrounding Fauci and the origin of COVID? I think if we want to make sure this doesn't happen we should look into the facts. Not refer to the people reading them as naive or weak-minded

Thanks in advance.

If you're going to respond with the same tone, I am not going to respond anymore. You can brag that you got me I don't care. If you seriously wanted to understand, I answered your questions but I think we both know that's not what your post was about. You and I are subjected to different rules and given this post and others from you I realize that you don't respond to my posts because you want to have a conversation or hear a different view point. So if it's going to continue with more of the same, I am done responding.

All I am doing is speaking on the current event that is a result of an official government release as a result of the Freedom of Information Act. This release, among many other happenstances over the last ~16 months cast Mr. Fauci as someone who is either incompetent or consistently lying about significant matters. As an American, I am simply questioning why our government's highest paid employee is, in the best case scenario, completely incompetent. And if that's not the case, I would like to know what's causing him to have different public and private opinions and rotating, ever-evolving public opinions that change given the month, administration or "phase" of the virus. 

I don't understand why you respond to my posts so rudely and why you feel the corporate media entities and the highest paid government employee (a millionaire multiple times over) are in need of you defense? Why are you rude to a fellow American questioning them following the unveiling of their questionable behavior? Do you really think the billion dollar media companies deserve your fervor-filled defense?

[raBBit]

On 5/28/2021 at 12:13 PM, Two-Gun Pete said:

 Meh, I don't see any evidence of this, at least not outside of fox/oan/other bullshit networks.

 

And even if fox/oan/other bullshit members of "the media" want to criticize "the media," maybe others would take them at their word if they weren't 100% water-carriers for that administration.  Maybe that administration shouldn't have spent 3+ years telling lies. When a person gets a reputation for, like, literally bullshitting about, like, EVERYTHING, it makes it less likely that others will take them at their word.

-The media isn't supposed to take the president's word for everything they say. Kind of alarming you look it at that way. They're supposed to investigate, corroborate, confirm, etc. and report their findings. The fact that the majority of the media supposedly did that in an independent fashion and they all came up with the same falsehood should be alarming to people other than those that you look at as naïve, weak-minded and eating bullshit. 

 IOW, maybe there is/was a consequence to lying, "alternative facts," and bullshit. If they'd been more about the truth, then maybe "the media" might have been more willing to accept what they were saying.

YMMV.

Yikes...I am sure Fox has articles on this too but they didn't come up at the top of google. I don't know what oan is. Hopefully these sources and bits of reporting meet your preference.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/30/science/china-covid-origin-wuhan.html 

NYT 5/30/21 - U.S. experts press calls for China to allow deeper inquiries into the pandemic’s origins.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/us/politics/biden-coronavirus-origins.html

NYT 5/29/21 - Biden Orders Intelligence Inquiry Into Origins of Virus

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/facebook-ban-covid-man-made-491053

POLITICO 5/27/21 - Facebook no longer treating 'man-made' Covid as a crackpot idea

https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-wuhan-lab-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228

WSJ 5/23/21 - Intelligence on Sick Staff at Wuhan Lab Fuels Debate on Covid-19 Origin

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/26/democrats-covid-lab-leak-theory-490951

POLITICO 5/26/21 - Dems back growing calls for Congress to probe Covid lab leak theory

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57268111

BBC 5/28/21 - Covid origin: Why the Wuhan lab-leak theory is being taken seriously

 

[Middle Buffalo]

So, if there was a lab leak that caused all of this, does that mean the virus is real? I’d rather go back to it being fake news. Less scary.

In any event, I’m going to run and grab a few cases of toilet paper from the grocery store before all the old people get up from their naps.