COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[Jack Parkman]

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

That's fine if you have chemists and doctors in your family, but at a certain point we all have to make informed decisions based on research of all the available up to date information. 

Very few governments around the world have consistently distinguished themselves throughout the pandemic. It's arguably a number less than you can count on your fingers out of 200+. 

South Korea, New Zealand and Taiwan did the best, but they're all isolated or semi-isolated countries. NZ and Taiwan are small islands and it's pretty easy to keep people out there. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

South Korea, New Zealand and Taiwan did the best, but they're all isolated or semi-isolated countries. NZ and Taiwan are small islands and it's pretty easy to keep people out there. 

And now Australia is a disaster impacting NZ and Taiwan is caught in a political tug of war between Chinese mainland and American vaccines.

Vietnam, maybe.  Germany and Israel...relatively.

Edited June 29, 2021 by caulfield12

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

On 6/27/2021 at 3:44 PM, Tony said:

No they aren't. If you want to play "I don't have any facts, but I'll just go with my gut." then I'll play as well. 

People are full of shit. They aren't suddenly "afraid" of the vaccine, they are following what their friends and favorite politicians say on Facebook. I'm willing to bet there is a large swath of people who are "afraid to take the vaccine" are also spilling cigarette ash on their keyboard while they share their thoughts on social media about how they won't put something potentially harmful into their bodies. 

Saw this yesterday as well. Terribly sad as this guy should still be alive, but Fox News and Facebook killed him. 

 

My father believes in all of this right-wing nutball shit. I had to drive to his home and drag him kicking and screaming (he actually cried) to both his shots or he was never getting it. He has several underlying conditions and multiple doctors told him he was 100% gone if he caught COVID. Yet he'd rather listen to conspiracy theorists than doctors.

I have tried talking sense into him over and over and it just turns into a blow-up everytime. These people are delusional. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by IWokeUpLikeThis

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:46 PM, Quin said:

I learned that one of my friends has never gotten a vaccine of any kind because he thinks it'll turn people into zombies.

I kept explaining to him how the benefits of getting it, downsides of not getting it (other than, well, death), and why he won't actually turn into a zombie, but I might need to go with him to get the shot for him to actually be willing to get it.

When he told me that was the reason it blew my mind.

I have a childhood friend who runs social media accounts where he gives his "wisdom" on how to treat psoriasis. On these accounts, he touts how you have to strengthen your immune system and warns against the dangers of vaccines. The scary part is he has 16k followers on IG eating this up. 

He wasn't even right-wing growing up either - him falling off the rocker into alt-right conspiracies is a recent development. His IG account is naturalpsoriasishealing for those morbidly curious. 

[raBBit]

16 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

Ill let you answer your own question:

Everybody is aware of why someone would want to limit risk in business.

 

Pharmaceutical companies are a business, their primary objective is to make money. If their legal team feels that they can leverage a crisis for immunity, which will give them an economic advantage, they are going to do it. 

 And I dont support the govt giving anyone immunity, but the pharmaceutical companies had a lot of leverage in this specific example. 

This isn't what happened. They received immunity under the PREP act. If they remove the public health emergency designation from COVID Americas have protections from the experimental vaccines. The PREP Act was created to encourage the creation of the treatments in case of emergency. We now have the treatments already and there is no emergency currently in the states related to COVID. Everyone that is in favor of the individual over the corporations would support this.

 

[Soxbadger]

31 minutes ago, raBBit said:

This isn't what happened. They received immunity under the PREP act. If they remove the public health emergency designation from COVID Americas have protections from the experimental vaccines. The PREP Act was created to encourage the creation of the treatments in case of emergency. We now have the treatments already and there is no emergency currently in the states related to COVID. Everyone that is in favor of the individual over the corporations would support this.

 

As arguably the most vocal person against tort caps and tort immunity on this board, I am glad we both agree that legislatures should not be writing laws that cap torts or create immunity. If someone has a case, let a judge/jury decide if there is a cause of action. 

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

As arguably the most vocal person against tort caps and tort immunity on this board, I am glad we both agree that legislatures should not be writing laws that cap torts or create immunity. If someone has a case, let a judge/jury decide if there is a cause of action. 

Let's make this clear...they receive immunity except in the case of "willful misconduct". 

With any vaccine, there are going to be allergic responses and other issues that are difficult to predict. For those issues - the vaccine manufacturer cannot be sued. However, the 1988 law that created this rule also created federally funded programs that pay out settlements in those cases. That liability waiver means that the government is going to deal with paying for any issues, not the vaccine manufacturer, as long as there is no misconduct. That's how it works for literally every covered vaccine.

The rule was created after lawsuits in the 1970s and 1980s were pushing many companies to leave vaccine manufacturing and design entirely, because "one or two doses of an easily manufactured shot" is not particularly profitable in medicine - the 2019 vaccine market was only half the market for insulin alone, for example.  https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123535050056344903 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/21/coronavirus-brings-light-to-the-35-billion-vaccine-market.html

That rule was not created in any way specifically for the COVID vaccines.

[raBBit]

26 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

As arguably the most vocal person against tort caps and tort immunity on this board, I am glad we both agree that legislatures should not be writing laws that cap torts or create immunity. If someone has a case, let a judge/jury decide if there is a cause of action. 

This doesn't align with other things you have said.

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Let's make this clear...they receive immunity except in the case of "willful misconduct". 

With any vaccine, there are going to be allergic responses and other issues that are difficult to predict. For those issues - the vaccine manufacturer cannot be sued. However, the 1988 law that created this rule also created federally funded programs that pay out settlements in those cases. That liability waiver means that the government is going to deal with paying for any issues, not the vaccine manufacturer, as long as there is no misconduct. That's how it works for literally every covered vaccine.

 The rule was created after lawsuits in the 1970s and 1980s were pushing many companies to leave vaccine manufacturing and design entirely, because "one or two doses of an easily manufactured shot" is not particularly profitable in medicine - the 2019 vaccine market was only half the market for insulin alone, for example.  https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123535050056344903 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/21/coronavirus-brings-light-to-the-35-billion-vaccine-market.html

That rule was not created in any way specifically for the COVID vaccines.

https://www.phe.gov/emergency/events/COVID19/COVIDvaccinators/Pages/PREP-Act-Immunity-from-Liability-for-COVID-19-Vaccinators.aspx

COVID-19 vaccine creators immunity is a direct result of the PREP act. 

People's limited recourse below.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html

The little-known government program has been around for a decade, and it is managed by an agency under HHS. This fund typically only deals with vaccines you probably would never get, like the H1N1 and anthrax vaccines. 

If a case for compensation through the CICP is successful, the program provides up to $50,000 per year in unreimbursed lost wages and out-of-pocket medical expenses. It won’t cover legal fees or anything to compensate for pain and suffering. 

It is also capped at the death benefit of $370,376, which is the most a surviving family member receives in the event that a Covid vaccine proves to be fatal.

But experts specializing in vaccine law say it is difficult to navigate. “This government compensation program is very hard to use,” said Reiss. “The bar for compensation is very high.”

Also worrisome to some vaccine injury lawyers is the fact that the CICP has rejected a majority of the compensation requests made since the program began 10 years ago. Of the 499 claims filed, the CICP has compensated only 29 claims, totaling more than $6 million.

---

The pharmaceutical companies have to be thrilled how many Americans are so willing to shill for them. Regular people Americans want the government covering for the Pharmaceutical giants. I guess that's why they pay the big cash for all those ads in the corporate media. 

[Soxbadger]

5 minutes ago, raBBit said:

This doesn't align with other things you have said.

Align with what exactly?

 

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, raBBit said:

This doesn't align with other things you have said.

https://www.phe.gov/emergency/events/COVID19/COVIDvaccinators/Pages/PREP-Act-Immunity-from-Liability-for-COVID-19-Vaccinators.aspx

COVID-19 vaccine creators immunity is a direct result of the PREP act. 

People's limited recourse below.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html

The little-known government program has been around for a decade, and it is managed by an agency under HHS. This fund typically only deals with vaccines you probably would never get, like the H1N1 and anthrax vaccines. 

If a case for compensation through the CICP is successful, the program provides up to $50,000 per year in unreimbursed lost wages and out-of-pocket medical expenses. It won’t cover legal fees or anything to compensate for pain and suffering. 

It is also capped at the death benefit of $370,376, which is the most a surviving family member receives in the event that a Covid vaccine proves to be fatal.

But experts specializing in vaccine law say it is difficult to navigate. “This government compensation program is very hard to use,” said Reiss. “The bar for compensation is very high.”

Also worrisome to some vaccine injury lawyers is the fact that the CICP has rejected a majority of the compensation requests made since the program began 10 years ago. Of the 499 claims filed, the CICP has compensated only 29 claims, totaling more than $6 million.

---

The pharmaceutical companies have to be thrilled how many Americans are so willing to shill for them. Regular people Americans want the government covering for the Pharmaceutical giants. I guess that's why they pay the big cash for all those ads in the corporate media. 

"The 2005 law empowers..."

[greg775]

I hope the vaccines work. Should be interesting to see how the USA handles this predicted wave of cases. Too bad I've run out of my cloth masks that I liked. I forget where I ordered them. Looks like masks ain't going anywhere. 

So let's summarize where we are in the fight against COVID 16 months in ... Full attendance is being allowed at sporting events with no masks needed; Broadway is opening soon; Vegas is open; concerts are returning or have returned; even my church next Sunday is allowing full capacity and no masks required; our grocery stores are not requiring masks; our bars and coffee shops no masks needed. .... Any bets this will still be the case in a month? I sure hope so. Not confident tho. Covid is still in the headlines and the news isn't positive. (new variant is contagious; only have the country willing to be vaxxed; hospitals filling already again in some U.S. cities; yikes baby!)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bringing-back-mask-mandate-is-a-good-idea-doctor-on-delta-variant-135926196.html

Edited June 29, 2021 by greg775

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I hope the vaccines work. Should be interesting to see how the USA handles this predicted wave of cases. Too bad I've run out of my cloth masks that I liked. I forget where I ordered them. Looks like masks ain't going anywhere. 

So let's summarize where we are in the fight against COVID 16 months in ... Full attendance is being allowed at sporting events with no masks needed; Broadway is opening soon; Vegas is open; concerts are returning or have returned; even my church next Sunday is allowing full capacity and no masks required; our grocery stores are not requiring masks; our bars and coffee shops no masks needed. .... Any bets this will still be the case in a month? I sure hope so.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bringing-back-mask-mandate-is-a-good-idea-doctor-on-delta-variant-135926196.html

All you have to do is look the correlation between vaccine rates and cases, as well as between the non-vaccinated and who is being hospitalized and dying from COVID.  If people want data, there are some great numbers there.

[caulfield12]

As Delta Variant Surges, Outbreaks Return in Many Parts of the World (NY Times)

 

On Wednesday, Bangladesh recorded its highest-ever daily case count. The numbers look set to climb higher as migrant workers return to their villages ahead of a July 1 nationwide lockdown, potentially exposing those communities to the virus.

The nationwide shutdown means that all domestic public transportation networks will be suspended and all shops closed for at least a week. But with Bangladesh’s export-driven economy battered by the pandemic, the government has refrained from idling garment factories and mills.

“They are hardworking people,” said Mohammed Nasir, the former vice president of the Bangladesh Garment Manufacturers and Exporters Association. “Their immune systems are stronger.”

If pandemic history is any precedent, such crowded quarters, just like prisons or mass religious gatherings, can turn into petri dishes of infection. Many garment workers, though, are desperate to keep their jobs, especially with annual bonuses due soon.

Despite promises from various countries and international organizations, vaccine deliveries to Bangladesh have been underwhelming. Fewer than 3% of Bangladeshis have been fully vaccinated.

“We are working to make a balance,” Nasir said, “between lives and livelihoods.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/delta-variant-surges-outbreaks-return-121753569.html

[pcq]

On 6/29/2021 at 9:18 AM, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

My father believes in all of this right-wing nutball shit. I had to drive to his home and drag him kicking and screaming (he actually cried) to both his shots or he was never getting it. He has several underlying conditions and multiple doctors told him he was 100% gone if he caught COVID. Yet he'd rather listen to conspiracy theorists than doctors.

I have tried talking sense into him over and over and it just turns into a blow-up everytime. These people are delusional. 

National vax rate is 55%. Vegas is open and Delta is thriving. This country is seriously too effing Stoopid to survive. The enemy is 45% of us which seems to match the 2020 polling as well. These people are unable to understand that a vaccine might save their lives cuz social media. 

[CentralChamps21]

11 hours ago, pcq said:

National vax rate is 55%. Vegas is open and Delta is thriving. This country is seriously too effing Stoopid to survive. The enemy is 45% of us which seems to match the 2020 polling as well. These people are unable to understand that a vaccine might save their lives cuz social media. 

If the 45% who aren't getting vaccinated were only putting themselves at risk, I wouldn't care, but the longer we take to reach herd immunity, the higher the chance that we get a new variant that is more resistant to the vaccine than the delta variant, thereby putting all the vaccinated people back at risk.

[Middle Buffalo]

On 6/29/2021 at 1:17 PM, greg775 said:

Full attendance is being allowed at sporting events. Broadway…concerts…church…grocery stores…bars…coffee shops no masks needed. .... Any bets this will still be the case in a month? I sure hope so.

The success of all of these scenarios depends on people doing the right thing. Unfortunately, I think we know too many people have been determined to act selfishly for the entirety of this pandemic.

Here in AZ, vaccination rate is a little less than 50% fully vaccinated. Today, my wife and I donated platelets. The policy at the blood bank is masks required unless fully vaccinated. Both my wife and I are fully vaccinated. Of the other nine people donating while we were there, only one was wearing a mask. If we assume everyone was following the posted policy, that means only one of the eleven people seated in the building was not fully vaccinated. Seems kind of unlikely statistically.

My wife and I chose to wear our masks.

[caulfield12]

On 7/4/2021 at 9:28 PM, pcq said:

National vax rate is 55%. Vegas is open and Delta is thriving. This country is seriously too effing Stoopid to survive. The enemy is 45% of us which seems to match the 2020 polling as well. These people are unable to understand that a vaccine might save their lives cuz social media. 

And young people, those living in rural areas, libertarians, etc.

[caulfield12]

On 7/5/2021 at 8:44 AM, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

If the 45% who aren't getting vaccinated were only putting themselves at risk, I wouldn't care, but the longer we take to reach herd immunity, the higher the chance that we get a new variant that is more resistant to the vaccine than the delta variant, thereby putting all the vaccinated people back at risk.

See the so-called Lambda variant in Peru might be the worst of all.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/gop-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-071335457.html

https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1412201898829135873?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1412201898829135873|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yahoo.com%2Fhuffpost%2Fgop-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-071335457.html

Edited July 6, 2021 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

delta fucking sucks

 

 

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

38 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

delta fucking sucks

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you correct for population, the UK is 10x worse than US and gap widening with AZ only 60% efficacy against Delta.

Plague Island.

[Soxbadger]

On 7/4/2021 at 8:23 PM, Middle Buffalo said:

The success of all of these scenarios depends on people doing the right thing. Unfortunately, I think we know too many people have been determined to act selfishly for the entirety of this pandemic.

Here in AZ, vaccination rate is a little less than 50% fully vaccinated. Today, my wife and I donated platelets. The policy at the blood bank is masks required unless fully vaccinated. Both my wife and I are fully vaccinated. Of the other nine people donating while we were there, only one was wearing a mask. If we assume everyone was following the posted policy, that means only one of the eleven people seated in the building was not fully vaccinated. Seems kind of unlikely statistically.

My wife and I chose to wear our masks.

We wear our masks for the most part when we are indoors or around a lot of people. 

Its really just such a low bar for trying to make sure people are safe. 

[greg775]

On 7/4/2021 at 8:28 AM, pcq said:

National vax rate is 55%. Vegas is open and Delta is thriving. This country is seriously too effing Stoopid to survive. The enemy is 45% of us which seems to match the 2020 polling as well. These people are unable to understand that a vaccine might save their lives cuz social media. 

I watched a video of a woman and her kid. The kid was healthy before the vaccine and now a physical mess after the vaccine, Johnson and Johnson. So I still think some people are not effing Stoopid, but scared. Understandably so they do not trust the scientists or politicians so they will not be vaccinated. Is that true 100,000 cases a day in England?? That seems insane. If that's true, won't England pretty much be in a total crisis soon? 100,000 new cases a day??

[Kyyle23]

36 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I watched a video of a woman and her kid. The kid was healthy before the vaccine and now a physical mess after the vaccine, Johnson and Johnson. So I still think some people are not effing Stoopid, but scared. Understandably so they do not trust the scientists or politicians so they will not be vaccinated. Is that true 100,000 cases a day in England?? That seems insane. If that's true, won't England pretty much be in a total crisis soon? 100,000 new cases a day??

I wish you wouldn't lead posts with talking about videos you don't cite or share that are at best anecdotal proof 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I watched a video of a woman and her kid. The kid was healthy before the vaccine and now a physical mess after the vaccine, Johnson and Johnson. So I still think some people are not effing Stoopid, but scared. Understandably so they do not trust the scientists or politicians so they will not be vaccinated. Is that true 100,000 cases a day in England?? That seems insane. If that's true, won't England pretty much be in a total crisis soon? 100,000 new cases a day??

Did you watch videos of the 600,000 people in the United States who died?

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I watched a video of a woman and her kid. The kid was healthy before the vaccine and now a physical mess after the vaccine, Johnson and Johnson. So I still think some people are not effing Stoopid, but scared. Understandably so they do not trust the scientists or politicians so they will not be vaccinated. Is that true 100,000 cases a day in England?? That seems insane. If that's true, won't England pretty much be in a total crisis soon? 100,000 new cases a day??

OK, this begs a few questions:

 

1. WHERE did you see this "video?" Can you link it here? [Otherwise, be prepared to be called a "bullshitter."]

2. WHY do you insist on grouping "the scientists or politicians" together? Did some fuck-stick who has no scientific bona fides on your favorite networks tell you to group them together?

3. WHAT are you watching these days? [On TV, internet, etc...] And how much of each are you watching? [I'm legitimately curious.]

 

Thanks in advance for answering these specific questions, BEFORE trying to turn the discussion elsewhere. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete