COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[Soxbadger]

59 minutes ago, greg775 said:

+If this is too political please kill. I consider it important to a COVID discussion. I am concerned that the government in conjunction with a private company is 'flagging' posts of misinformation regarding the pandemic. Who decides if it's misinformation?? I seem to recall when one was banned for suggesting COVID was created in a lab. Now it's a viable possibility.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/critics-slam-psaki-white-houseconsulting-facebook-flag-misinformation

What is your gain by all of this? The US is trending towards another outbreak, more people are going to die all because a small group of people are too selfish to help everyone else. 

The saddest part of all this:

https://www.si.com/nba/trailblazers/news/jusuf-nurkic-tried-to-buy-covid-19-vaccines-for-all-of-bosnia

 

Quote

 

"They just have donations, but not enough to vaccinate the people," Nurkic told ESPN's Ramona Shelburne of Bosnia-Herzegovina. "I tried to buy it for the whole country. I figured out the money, the plan and everything. But we still can't do it.

"Even if we find vaccines, I guess United States laws say that until the American people are vaccinated, you can't sell it. So, I don't know what else to do. I really tried."

 

 

So here you have someone who wants to buy vaccines to help out people who are dying, and he cant even do it. Yet here in the US we have people who are being offered vaccines for free and are refusing to do it, because they would rather destroy America than admit maybe scientists know more about science than they do.

 

[ron883]

41 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

You're putting up a link from Fox News, the propaganda network? 

Let's stop acting like MSNBC or CNN are any better. If you think any of the big 3 networks are credible, you're eating up a bunch of propaganda. 

[NWINFan]

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

Let's stop acting like MSNBC or CNN are any better. If you think any of the big 3 networks are credible, you're eating up a bunch of propaganda. 

If there is any source I don't believe about the pandemic, it is Fox News. That goes for most other things as well.

[ron883]

5 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

If there is any source I don't believe about the pandemic, it is Fox News. That goes for most other things as well.

Bill hits the nail on the head. We all know Fox News downplays the danger of Covid. Let's not act like networks such as MSNBC and CNN report on it accurately either. They love that people are staying inside more with the opportunity to watch their programming. People on the right underestimate the danger of it, while people on the left overestimate the danger of it. The misinformation put out by both sides is a huge issue.

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, ron883 said:

Bill hits the nail on the head. We all know Fox News downplays the danger of Covid. Let's not act like networks such as MSNBC and CNN report on it accurately either. They love that people are staying inside more with the opportunity to watch their programming. People on the right underestimate the danger of it, while people on the left overestimate the danger of it. The misinformation put out by both sides is a huge issue.

Overall an extra 900,000 people died in the first 14 months of this pandemic more than die in a normal year in this country. A disturbingly large fraction of that death has been unnecessary. Please tell me how exactly this has been overestimated.

I will grant I was wrong about the risk of surfaces early in this thing, if that’s what you want?

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/06/994287048/new-study-estimates-more-than-900-000-people-have-died-of-covid-19-in-u-s

[The Beast]

6 hours ago, ron883 said:

Bill hits the nail on the head. We all know Fox News downplays the danger of Covid. Let's not act like networks such as MSNBC and CNN report on it accurately either. They love that people are staying inside more with the opportunity to watch their programming. People on the right underestimate the danger of it, while people on the left overestimate the danger of it. The misinformation put out by both sides is a huge issue.

What is even more important than arguing about media platforms is people viewing/reading more than one media source and listening to people they don’t agree with. That’s how I think readers “get things straight” as Bill said.

[Soxbadger]

Years from now people are going to look back at us and wonder how we got here. I cant even express how frustrated/annoyed/angry I am that it looks like the sacrifices over the last year are going to be undone because people in the USA cant wear a mask or get a shot. 

70 years ago people were volunteering to go fight in WWII, now we cant even do 2 simple tasks to protect each other.

I seriously cant believe that when I look at other countries I think its possible things are going to get worse again in the US, I thought last year was going to be a wake up call and people were going to get their shit together. 

[The Beast]

8 hours ago, greg775 said:

If this is too political please kill. I consider it important to a COVID discussion. I am concerned that the government in conjunction with a private company is 'flagging' posts of misinformation regarding the pandemic. Who decides if it's misinformation?? I seem to recall when one was banned for suggesting COVID was created in a lab. Now it's a viable possibility.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/critics-slam-psaki-white-houseconsulting-facebook-flag-misinformation

Greg, do you feel there is harm being done if the surgeon general staff is flagging posts for review if it is indeed misinformation? Flagging doesn’t mean automatically removing content, although it might come with a sub content bar directing to a source. What else could be done if misinformation is spread and it is potentially harmful to people?

[ron883]

16 minutes ago, The Beast said:

What is even more important than arguing about media platforms is people viewing/reading more than one media source and listening to people they don’t agree with. That’s how I think readers “get things straight” as Bill said.

100%. I completely agree with you here Beast. 

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, ron883 said:

100%. I completely agree with you here Beast. 

Also, aren’t Fox and OAN and all those networks dramatically up in ratings vis a vis CNN and MSNBC ever since Biden’s inauguration?

If more than half of America is not working already (not greatly affecting ratings one way or the other since Fox viewers are the most loyal), how is CNN possibly going to influence overriding the governors of red states and force all of them to stay at home?  They might have to wear masks or work from home, but there’s probably a stronger correlation between Trump being in office compared to stay at home orders benefitting CNN or MSNBC ratings.

[ron883]

I remember a time when anti vaxxers were severely ridiculed by the masses. They were akin to flat earthers almost. It's incredible how many more there are now a days...

If social media was around in the 50s-60s, would polio ever have gotten eradicated in the US?

[caulfield12]

36 minutes ago, The Beast said:

What is even more important than arguing about media platforms is people viewing/reading more than one media source and listening to people they don’t agree with. That’s how I think readers “get things straight” as Bill said.

But which are middle of the road media sources?  Time, Newsweek and US News & World Report, previously?  Christian Science Monitor?  Wall Street Journal, with editorial leaning to the right?  Al Jazeera?  Watching Chinese Global TV Network?

[The Beast]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But which are middle of the road media sources?  Time, Newsweek and US News & World Report, previously?  Christian Science Monitor?  Wall Street Journal, with editorial leaning to the right?  Al Jazeera?  Watching Chinese Global TV Network?

I’m not sure there are middle of the road sources. I try to read a mix of everything to see what common facts there are in different stories. It’s not perfect and I don’t agree with a lot of what I read, but it’s important to read as much as possible from both persuasions. There are even sites like the Bulwark that also serve as news aggregators with links to click on. I got a different perspective from the Hill from Joe Manchin than I did at CNN on the reconciliation bill, for instance.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

I remember a time when anti vaxxers were severely ridiculed by the masses. They were akin to flat earthers almost. It's incredible how many more there are now a days...

If social media was around in the 50s-60s, would polio ever have gotten eradicated in the US?

Is it anti-vaxxers or just anti-government/libertarians?

At any rate, there should be a chyron on the screen whenever someone’s talking that shows their personal vaccine status (or explanation, like Rand Paul saying he can’t get it or spread it since he was already infected once, which every credible scientist in the world will disagree about the accuracy of such a belief.) 

Otherwise, it’s just hypocrisy to say one thing for political reasons and do the opposite personally…unless we’re going to take away public health rights from an entire community to protect individual/privacy rights.  The argument has already commenced with the fight over vaccine passports.  

(But then that doesn’t exactly square with trying to take away right to choose for women, does it?  They are either both or neither related to the right to privacy, especially in situations where careless actions can actually KILL multiple others.

[The Beast]

9 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I remember a time when anti vaxxers were severely ridiculed by the masses. They were akin to flat earthers almost. It's incredible how many more there are now a days...

If social media was around in the 50s-60s, would polio ever have gotten eradicated in the US?

 

45 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Years from now people are going to look back at us and wonder how we got here. I cant even express how frustrated/annoyed/angry I am that it looks like the sacrifices over the last year are going to be undone because people in the USA cant wear a mask or get a shot. 

70 years ago people were volunteering to go fight in WWII, now we cant even do 2 simple tasks to protect each other.

I seriously cant believe that when I look at other countries I think its possible things are going to get worse again in the US, I thought last year was going to be a wake up call and people were going to get their shit together. 

If COVID had been around pre-Obama and pre-Trump, I wonder how we would have fared in the Bush and Clinton years.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, The Beast said:

I’m not sure there are middle of the road sources. I try to read a mix of everything to see what common facts there are in different stories. It’s not perfect and I don’t agree with a lot of what I read, but it’s important to read as much as possible from both persuasions. There are even sites like the Bulwark that also serve as news aggregators with links to click on. I got a different perspective from the Hill from Joe Manchin than I did at CNN on the reconciliation bill, for instance.

Sure, I alway read articles from Real Clear Politics.  But then the site ownership took a dramatic rightward turn and so did the origin of 90% of the articles.   I don’t think having just Juan Williams because he’s a minority is exactly a representative sample of both sides.  Kind of like the old McLaughlin Group where they had one wishy washy liberal.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, The Beast said:

 

If COVID had been around pre-Obama and pre-Trump, I wonder how we would have fared in the Bush and Clinton years.

Having a hard time those Whitewater/Vince Foster conspiracy followers would have gone anti-vaxx because Newt Gingrich and Dole at least respected science and intellectual expertise.

[The Beast]

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Is it anti-vaxxers or just anti-government/libertarians?

At any rate, there should be a chyron on the screen whenever someone’s talking that shows their personal vaccine status (or explanation, like Rand Paul saying he can’t get it or spread it since he was already infected once, which every credible scientist in the world will disagree about the accuracy of such a belief.) 

Otherwise, it’s just hypocrisy to say one thing for political reasons and do the opposite personally…unless we’re going to take away public health rights from an entire community to protect individual/privacy rights.  The argument has already commenced with the fight over vaccine passports.  

(But then that doesn’t exactly square with trying to take away right to choose for women, does it?  They are either both or neither related to the right to privacy, especially in situations where careless actions can actually KILL multiple others.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around this - what if the FDA gives full approval for the vaccines and states start mandating vaccines to go to school? How are the other illnesses and diseases children get vaccinated for different from COVID? Is the argument just that there’s many more years and lots of research with the mandated vaccines than the vaccines we currently have?

Edit: Did people complain about individual rights this much when the Patriot Act was in play? Not equal by comparison at all, just wondering.

Edited July 17, 2021 by The Beast

[The Beast]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sure, I alway read articles from Real Clear Politics.  But then the site ownership took a dramatic rightward turn and so did the origin of 90% of the articles.   I don’t think having just Juan Williams because he’s a minority is exactly a representative sample of both sides.  Kind of like the old McLaughlin Group where they had one wishy washy liberal.

Politico is my new favorite just because of the data they present and the reporting they get on things that people comment on. They have long articles but they have the most depth out of what I read.

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Having a hard time those Whitewater/Vince Foster conspiracy followers would have gone anti-vaxx because Newt Gingrich and Dole at least respected science and intellectual expertise.

So it would take more leaders to respect science, disregard misinformation and make things less political when it comes to battling the pandemic. I would think things would be different with people like Boehner, Ryan, Pelosi under Bush and some of the other politicians of the past since bipartisanship didn’t seem to be as difficult then. Not having social media in the 90s and early 00s would definitely have helped too. It’s an accelerant that contributes to misinformation.

[Big Hurtin]

44 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Having a hard time those Whitewater/Vince Foster conspiracy followers would have gone anti-vaxx because Newt Gingrich and Dole at least respected science and intellectual expertise.

When did the national (international?) anti-intellectualism start?  The internet age, probably, and then social media grew it exponentially.

[caulfield12]

42 minutes ago, The Beast said:

I’m still trying to wrap my head around this - what if the FDA gives full approval for the vaccines and states start mandating vaccines to go to school? How are the other illnesses and diseases children get vaccinated for different from COVID? Is the argument just that there’s many more years and lots of research with the mandated vaccines than the vaccines we currently have?

Edit: Did people complain about individual rights this much when the Patriot Act was in play? Not equal by comparison at all, just wondering.

Politico, how many have the time and attention span to read long, informative nuanced articles?  3-5% of the country, maybe 10-20% if being charitable, but the majority of that group probably are already vaccinated.

I guess the next argument will be that the Emergency Use authorization and lawsuit protections don’t expire until at least next year…the belief from skeptics everything was rushed and that we’re all essentially human guinea pigs for Big Pharma.  This will be the case especially if boosters for variants or third shots start getting required.

But yeah, as a teacher we just go along with all those tests for measles, mumps/rubella…nobody is fighting those in an organized way, right?  In fact, a student here in China just had TB last semester, they just informed us over the last week or so we had to get a chest X-ray and another test so specialized that only two hospitals in Wuhan have it, and those are being used only for treating Covid patients (for some reason they allowed a plane with 30+ cases in from Afghanistan) so I can’t get that skin reaction test but still a pain.  But you have to provide proof or no teaching job.  

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

When did the national (international?) anti-intellectualism start?  The internet age, probably, and then social media grew it exponentially.

What still amazes me is that nobody on the right has come up with a legitimate health care plan since Mitt Romney in MA.

Trump made no effort whatsoever, to predictable results.

Once upon a time, in the era of Buckley and then George Will, Jack Kemp or even Paul Ryan…there was at least a governing philosophy and policies to represent that belief system on the right.

What does it mean to be a smart Republican now?  It’s called RINO to actually use your brain and question the direction of the party.  Obey, or be run over and left as road kill.

So I will blame Trump, Grover Norquist and Rupert Murdoch, haha.  And it happened everywhere around the world, the Le Pens in France, Brexit, Germany, Scandinavia, anti-immigration beliefs taking over gradually over the last decade or so.  Cult of authoritarian personality in China, Russia, India, Brazil, etc.  All different versions or systems of controlling people.  

I read a lot about Thailand after spending two years there and the military government/junta actively seeks to undermine independent education, preferring the people get addicted to Facebook (but then also following the lead of China in internet censorship) and daily soap operas instead of thinking for themselves.  Covid 19 has only exacerbated this, many of the countries that China sponsors trending in the same direction.  The best European examples are probably Hungary and Turkey.

Edited July 17, 2021 by caulfield12

[Big Hurtin]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

What still amazes me is that nobody on the right has come up with a legitimate health care plan since Mitt Romney in MA.

Trump made no effort whatsoever, to predictable results.

Once upon a time, in the era of Buckley and then George Will, Jack Kemp or even Paul Ryan…there was at least a governing philosophy and policies to represent that belief system on the right.

What does it mean to be a smart Republican now?  It’s called RINO to actually use your brain and question the direction of the party.  Obey, or be run over and left as road kill.

So I will blame Trump, Grover Norquist and Rupert Murdoch, haha.

You can do that if you want, and quite frankly, I wouldn't piss on any of them if they were on fire.  The problem is, they are just a symptom of a much deeper problem.

Ironically, Trump and Murdoch were both vaccinated well before the general populace. (no idea about Grover Norquist)

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

You can do that if you want, and quite frankly, I wouldn't piss on any of them if they were on fire.  The problem is, they are just a symptom of a much deeper problem.

Ironically, Trump and Murdoch were both vaccinated well before the general populace. (no idea about Grover Norquist)

The center right like Biden are the moderate Republicans of the 70’s and 80’s and the progressive left has gotten so lost in the weeds arguing hot button social identity issues that the majority of the country has given up, since pretty much nobody represents them any more.

Only the Top 20% and corporations are winning.  The intellectualism…if you want to call it that or such as it is, is being utilized to make the majority of people apathetic and cynical about change being possible anymore.  Labor or union movements like Corbyn or Sanders can get up to 20-25% but hit their ceilings when they start threatening the careers of politicians, the elite and corporate profits.

[greg775]

3 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

70 years ago people were volunteering to go fight in WWII, now we cant even do 2 simple tasks to protect each other.

Right now, many Americans despise each other. It's the way it is. Did you see that post from the leader of an organization that will go unnamed that in discussing the opposite side of the issue she was commenting on wrote "Let them die" on Twitter. I also read there is a growing percentage of Americans up for succession now because of hatred of the "other side."

Whereas my decision to get vaxxed was for other people more than myself ... there are not that many people who think that way. Hate is rampant and I have my theories but again I will not comment on them on this board.

I wish you and your family well Badger. Peace.

Edited July 17, 2021 by greg775