COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[greg775]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Only the Top 20% and corporations are winning. 

I would agree. Personally I'd amend this to say only the corporations and politicians of the majority party are winning.

[greg775]

3 hours ago, The Beast said:

Greg, do you feel there is harm being done if the surgeon general staff is flagging posts for review if it is indeed misinformation? Flagging doesn’t mean automatically removing content, although it might come with a sub content bar directing to a source. What else could be done if misinformation is spread and it is potentially harmful to people?

Yes harm is being done if the government is flagging posts for review. The government IMO has no right to comment on social media posts of citizens.

 I do not want Big Brother reading our facebook posts and tweets at all. Like I said before, many months ago, they would remove tweets about the virus being started in a lab. What is misinformation anyway? If somebody writes "Do not get vaxxed because down the line you could have medical problems caused by the vax" that probably would be flagged. It should not be flagged. It's somebody's opinion. Free speech, baby.

How can we get more people vaxxed? I would do a little bit of what they are doing now. Free commercial time for athletes and famous young people and regular people, too, imploring folks to get vaccinated so we can get rid of COVID once and for all. Just flood the airwaves with free ads. But DO NOT spy on people and do creepy things. An ad campaign has to be done to offset the fear people have of politicians in all this. 

Joe saying they'll go door to door and Kamala just saying "get vaccinated" on Twitter does not help. We need to kill the skeptical with kindness and beg them to get vaxxed for the good of all.

Edited July 17, 2021 by greg775

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, greg775 said:

Yes harm is being done if the government is flagging posts for review. The government IMO has no right to comment on social media posts of citizens.

 I do not want Big Brother reading our facebook posts and tweets at all. Like I said before, many months ago, they would remove tweets about the virus being started in a lab. What is misinformation anyway? If somebody writes "Do not get vaxxed because down the line you could have medical problems caused by the vax" that probably would be flagged. It should not be flagged. It's somebody's opinion. Free speech, baby.

How can we get more people vaxxed? I would do a little bit of what they are doing now. Free commercial time for athletes and famous young people and regular people, too, imploring folks to get vaccinated so we can get rid of COVID once and for all. Just flood the airwaves with free ads. But DO NOT spy on people and do creepy things. An ad campaign has to be done to offset the fear people have of politicians in all this. 

Joe saying they'll go door to door and Kamala just saying "get vaccinated" on Twitter does not help. We need to kill the skeptical with kindness and beg them to get vaxxed for the good of all.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/olivia-rodrigo-is-helping-president-biden-and-dr-fauci-convince-young-adults-to-give-covid-19-vaccines-a-shot-11626193151

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/16/tech/misinformation-covid-facebook-twitter-white-house/index.html

12 people online are responsible for majority of Covid/vaccine misinformation 

Edited July 17, 2021 by caulfield12

[Two-Gun Pete]

16 hours ago, ron883 said:

Let's stop acting like MSNBC or CNN are any better. If you think any of the big 3 networks are credible, you're eating up a bunch of propaganda. 

The "whattabout" defense. The race to the bottom. The last "defense," when others fail.

 

Looking back, I didn't see the other poster bring MSNBC or CNN into the convo. Why do you have to do so?

 

How about: if Fox pulls some bullshit, call THEM out on it, without bringing up "whattaboutism." At the same time, if MSNBC pulls some bullshit, call THEM out on it, without "whattaboutism" and bringing the others into it. And yes, if CNN pulls some bullshit, "whattaboutism" is stoopid, too.

 

There's really no need to instinctively "defend the colors" of one or the other with "whattaboutism." If you're truly about the truth, you don't need to "whattabout" everyfuckingthing.

 

Cool? Carry on, then.

[pcq]

17 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

The "whattabout" defense. The race to the bottom. The last "defense," when others fail.

 

Looking back, I didn't see the other poster bring MSNBC or CNN into the convo. Why do you have to do so?

 

How about: if Fox pulls some bullshit, call THEM out on it, without bringing up "whattaboutism." At the same time, if MSNBC pulls some bullshit, call THEM out on it, without "whattaboutism" and bringing the others into it. And yes, if CNN pulls some bullshit, "whattaboutism" is stoopid, too.

 

There's really no need to instinctively "defend the colors" of one or the other with "whattaboutism." If you're truly about the truth, you don't need to "whattabout" everyfuckingthing.

 

Cool? Carry on, then.

Lol when you have to report on Covid but half your viewers don't support vaccines. 

[ron883]

28 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

The "whattabout" defense. The race to the bottom. The last "defense," when others fail.

 

Looking back, I didn't see the other poster bring MSNBC or CNN into the convo. Why do you have to do so?

 

How about: if Fox pulls some bullshit, call THEM out on it, without bringing up "whattaboutism." At the same time, if MSNBC pulls some bullshit, call THEM out on it, without "whattaboutism" and bringing the others into it. And yes, if CNN pulls some bullshit, "whattaboutism" is stoopid, too.

 

There's really no need to instinctively "defend the colors" of one or the other with "whattaboutism." If you're truly about the truth, you don't need to "whattabout" everyfuckingthing.

 

Cool? Carry on, then.

Keep carrying water for your precious main stream media companies, Pete. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by ron883

[The Beast]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Politico, how many have the time and attention span to read long, informative nuanced articles?  3-5% of the country, maybe 10-20% if being charitable, but the majority of that group probably are already vaccinated.

I guess the next argument will be that the Emergency Use authorization and lawsuit protections don’t expire until at least next year…the belief from skeptics everything was rushed and that we’re all essentially human guinea pigs for Big Pharma.  This will be the case especially if boosters for variants or third shots start getting required.

But yeah, as a teacher we just go along with all those tests for measles, mumps/rubella…nobody is fighting those in an organized way, right?  In fact, a student here in China just had TB last semester, they just informed us over the last week or so we had to get a chest X-ray and another test so specialized that only two hospitals in Wuhan have it, and those are being used only for treating Covid patients (for some reason they allowed a plane with 30+ cases in from Afghanistan) so I can’t get that skin reaction test but still a pain.  But you have to provide proof or no teaching job.  

That’s the tough part, too many people don’t take time to understand the context of things and just read the headlines or the opening paragraphs and fail to understand the context. For example, the other day Fauci said that booster shots aren’t needed and that was the headline. What was left out of that headline is that he said they aren’t needed at this time with the data they have and that could change.

I probably overconsume the news with reading Politico, The Bulwark, CNN, the Chicago Tribune, sampling what is up at Fox News and even Breitbart, as well as listen to “Hacks on Tap,” “The Daily,” “Punchbowl News,” “The Rundown with Hugh Hewitt,” “Politico: Dispatch” and “The Axe Files.” But I find that varying what I read can help me understand people better especially when I am reading Facebook conversations with conservative folks.

I still can’t fully understand people who don’t do vaccines because they don’t want anything in their body, the people who are anti-vaccine or the vaccine hesitant, but I am fairly interested in their excuses and arguments against getting them. I think you’re right in what will happen next with their reasons, they  may shift the arguments and continue to not get vaccinated. 

My wife and I were discussing how it is that schools know if kids are vaccinated or not for the required vaccines to attend schools. Is it documentation and a physical from a physician? She said that there’s a flagging for kids who haven’t gotten the vaccine at the high school but I’m not sure administratively and also in terms of privacy how information is managed to determine who is admitted or not. I would think the states would determine what vaccines are required to attend schools and that they would make the call on the Covid vaccine too.

8 hours ago, Big Hurtin said:

You can do that if you want, and quite frankly, I wouldn't piss on any of them if they were on fire.  The problem is, they are just a symptom of a much deeper problem.

Ironically, Trump and Murdoch were both vaccinated well before the general populace. (no idea about Grover Norquist)

What is interesting is even though many Trump supporters know he got the vaccine, they aren’t going to get it and fall into their excuses. I know people think independently of him but if they drink the koolaid on other things, it’s surprising they won’t follow his lead with getting the vaccine.

8 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The center right like Biden are the moderate Republicans of the 70’s and 80’s and the progressive left has gotten so lost in the weeds arguing hot button social identity issues that the majority of the country has given up, since pretty much nobody represents them any more.

Only the Top 20% and corporations are winning.  The intellectualism…if you want to call it that or such as it is, is being utilized to make the majority of people apathetic and cynical about change being possible anymore.  Labor or union movements like Corbyn or Sanders can get up to 20-25% but hit their ceilings when they start threatening the careers of politicians, the elite and corporate profits.

Yep, this is why more moderate candidates win in elections. They represent more people than progressives or the far right.

7 hours ago, greg775 said:

Right now, many Americans despise each other. It's the way it is. Did you see that post from the leader of an organization that will go unnamed that in discussing the opposite side of the issue she was commenting on wrote "Let them die" on Twitter. I also read there is a growing percentage of Americans up for succession now because of hatred of the "other side."

Whereas my decision to get vaxxed was for other people more than myself ... there are not that many people who think that way. Hate is rampant and I have my theories but again I will not comment on them on this board.

I wish you and your family well Badger. Peace.

Greg, why are you so vague with what you say on the board? Without having to Google what company and leader you are talking about, why not just say it?

7 hours ago, greg775 said:

Yes harm is being done if the government is flagging posts for review. The government IMO has no right to comment on social media posts of citizens.

 I do not want Big Brother reading our facebook posts and tweets at all. Like I said before, many months ago, they would remove tweets about the virus being started in a lab. What is misinformation anyway? If somebody writes "Do not get vaxxed because down the line you could have medical problems caused by the vax" that probably would be flagged. It should not be flagged. It's somebody's opinion. Free speech, baby.

How can we get more people vaxxed? I would do a little bit of what they are doing now. Free commercial time for athletes and famous young people and regular people, too, imploring folks to get vaccinated so we can get rid of COVID once and for all. Just flood the airwaves with free ads. But DO NOT spy on people and do creepy things. An ad campaign has to be done to offset the fear people have of politicians in all this. 

Joe saying they'll go door to door and Kamala just saying "get vaccinated" on Twitter does not help. We need to kill the skeptical with kindness and beg them to get vaxxed for the good of all.

Do you think the government isn’t already doing something with reviewing posts? Big brother is probably watching whether you like it or not. I don’t see the government commenting on people’s posts as much as I think medical staff is assisting with flagging to show why things are misinformation instead of Facebook’s staff just making the call on these kinds of posts. 

When I think of posts that get flagged I am thinking of the memes people share rather than their posts. Memes come from a source or individual with followers and misinformation is spread. The average person posting the statement you said probably isn’t who they are looking at.

I doubt people who are hesitant or anti vaccine are wanting to listen to athletes or politicians. They need to hear from medical personnel and more specifically their own doctor, rather than be swayed by media, social media or famous people. The door to door idea isn’t for all areas, it’s a targeted approach that focuses on underserved regions. It’s probably better that people be given information spoken to them at their door rather than funneled through whatever media or social media they consume, especially if they only review one source. But I don’t think much outreach will get people to get the vaccine.

Lastly, and this is for everyone here, I really wish I understood why a good percentage of the people with one dose just stopped there and didn’t get the second dose. What happened? 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Keep carrying water for your precious main stream media companies, Pete. 

Okay Ron, which are acceptable sources of fair and balanced, objective infirmation?
 

AP News

Reuters

ABC/CBS News

NPR (probably will disagree)

Newsy?

PBS (probably will disagree)

Bloomberg (owned by conservative centrist Dem)

WSJ (editorial leans right)

Axios

Politico

NY Times (no conservative will agree there)

Washington Post (see above)

Financial Times (very few free articles)

The Economist 

BBC

The Hill

The Christian Science Monitor

CNN is shown in two places…maybe CNN Headline News or International

Business Insider

OZY

The Atlantic

Quartz

https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/media-bias-chart?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2

[ron883]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Okay Ron, which are acceptable sources of fair and balanced, objective infirmation?
 

AP News

Reuters

ABC/CBS News

NPR (probably will disagree)

Newsy?

PBS (probably will disagree)

Bloomberg (owned by conservative centrist Dem)

WSJ (editorial leans right)

Axios

Politico

NY Times (no conservative will agree there)

Washington Post (see above)

Financial Times (very few free articles)

The Economist 

BBC

The Hill

The Christian Science Monitor

CNN is shown in two places…maybe CNN Headline News or International

Business Insider

OZY

The Atlantic

Quartz

https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/media-bias-chart?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2

The South China Morning Post is the only news source to be trusted

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, ron883 said:

The South China Morning Post is the only news source to be trusted

They’re a much better source of information for Covid-19 than 90-95% of world newspapers, but they’re going to be forced to slant even more to mainland government positions with the independent Apple Daily shuttered.

Knew you couldn’t come up with a serious answer…oh, well.

Back to Fox News I guess.

[ron883]

8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They’re a much better source of information for Covid-19 than 90-95% of world newspapers, but they’re going to be forced to slant even more to mainland government positions with the independent Apple Daily shuttered.

Knew you couldn’t come up with a serious answer…oh, well.

Back to Fox News I guess.

Lol, sure they are. China has been completely transparent about Covid. I'm sure their newspapers have been totally accurate and straightforward about it as well. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by ron883

[StrangeSox]

media literacy is more than just reading a bunch of different sources

 

suffice it to say, all cable news is extremely bad, each channel in its own way

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Lol, sure they are. China has been completely transparent about Covid. I'm sure their newspapers have been totally accurate and straightforward about it as well. 

You’re forgetting they are based out of Hong Kong.

Nobody has ever claimed mainland China press is objective…CGTN doesn’t even come close, but are perhaps the most benign example in terms of propaganda.

 

Honestly, I think the fact that more and more nations are becoming leery about Chinese vaccines means we will never pull out of this Covid-19 mess, globally.  Too many variants, moving way too fast, and with the rest of the world basically waiting on Pfizer and Moderna, and not 100% trusting AZ, it’s going to take years and years to catch up unless China or India can start to mass produce mRNA vaccines.

We are at least six months at the earliest from that happening…that’s being overly optimistic.

[greg775]

3 hours ago, The Beast said:

  Greg, why are you so vague with what you say on the board? Without having to Google what company and leader you are talking about, why not just say it?

Do you think the government isn’t already doing something with reviewing posts? Big brother is probably watching whether you like it or not.\

Lastly, and this is for everyone here, I really wish I understood why a good percentage of the people with one dose just stopped there and didn’t get the second dose. What happened? 

1. I am trying to abide by board rules and not get suspended. In the past when I get specific, it riles people up who disagree with me and I got accused of trolling and inciting and ultimately it leads to my suspension. My position differs from "most" people on the board so I feel I need to be extra cognizant of the rules so I don't get suspended.

2. Man I hope not. 

3. That's' a good question. That's where some "misinformation" maybe could be rectified through ads, not Big Brother censorship. Perhaps some people who got the first shot really fear No. 2. That's the one that caused a lot of problems (albeit just for 2-5 days) for some friends of mine. I do know some people "afraid" to take dose 2. they truly think that down the line they will pay for it with blood clots, and other nasty symptoms. And yes they think the government and media are supressing info on problems people have had after getting vaxxed.

Peace.

[StrangeSox]

I sincerely hope the source in this NBC News report is wrong. Public statements for months now have been "Pfizer submits EUA data for 5-12 in September, 0-5 a few weeks later" with the expectations that it'd follow the same timeline as previous EUA submittals, i.e. shots starting late September or October. Pushing this back to "midwinter" means those of us with young children are looking at closer to another year before they are fully vaccinated.

 

Covid vaccines for kids under 12 expected midwinter, FDA official says

 

 

Quote

 

Emergency authorization for Covid-19 vaccines in children under 12 could come in early to midwinter, a Food and Drug Administration official said Thursday, a move that could bring relief to many parents who have been unable to vaccinate their children. The agency hopes to then move quickly to full approval of the vaccine for this age group.

One sticking point for some families who remain hesitant, the official said, is that the vaccines currently in use are administered under emergency use authorization and have not been given full approval by the FDA. Full approval, if it comes quickly after the emergency round, could alleviate that concern.

 

Quote

 

Pfizer said in a statement to NBC News it anticipates results on its clinical trials in kids ages 5 to 11 sometime in September, and then could apply for emergency use authorization. "Data for kids 2 and under 5 could arrive soon after that," the company said, adding that results on kids ages 6 months up to 2 years may not be released until October or November.

Dr. Buddy Creech, one of the primary researchers for the Moderna KidCOVE clinical trials, which includes children as young as 6 months, predicted a rollout of pediatric data similar to Pfizer's.

"I can't imagine, except maybe for the 6- to 11-year-olds, that we're going to have too much data before the late fall," Creech, also a pediatric infectious disease expert and director of the Vanderbilt Vaccine Research Program at the Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, Tennessee, said.

Results on kids 5 years old and younger may take longer, he added. "There is still a lot of work left to be done."

 

Quote

 

"Given that children are one of the groups that is unvaccinated, we will see more cases in children," said Dr. Richard Besser, a pediatrician and former acting director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "We will see more hospitalizations in children, and unfortunately we will see more deaths in children."

Besser, who is the current president of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, said he hopes the FDA will quickly move to full approval of the vaccines.

"Quite a number of people are saying that that will influence their decision to get vaccinated," he said.

Some pediatric infectious diseases doctors are not convinced full approval, rather than an EUA, would have much of an impact on vaccine hesitancy.

"In terms of how vaccines get approved, there isn't much of a functional difference" between emergency use authorization and full approval, said Dr. Sean O'Leary, vice chair of the Committee on Infectious Diseases for the American Academy of Pediatrics.

As of July 8, more than 4 million children had been diagnosed with Covid-19, representing 14.2 percent of all cases, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics. At least 335 children, ages 17 and younger, have died from Covid-19, according to the latest data from the CDC.

 

[greg775]

8 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

media literacy is more than just reading a bunch of different sources

 

suffice it to say, all cable news is extremely bad, each channel in its own way

If you keep an open mind about media corruption and Big Brother, etc., there is a fun exercise I partake in. I read CNN and FOX websites daily to compare what they are covering and what they think is newsworthy. It's pretty humorous. When I do read a story my pet peeve is how they throw opinion in the stories without the designation that the story is "opinion" or a "column." Sickening at the bias shown in sentences written in these "news stories." But try it, it's funny to see. An example would be FOX with a huge piece on Hunter Biden and CNN nothing on the story. ... Or CNN going after Trump for something new and Fox having nothing. ... Or Fox attacking Psaki for her Big Brother is good statement and CNN having nothing. it's a wild exercise to conduct.

[StrangeSox]

 

 

Cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are trending in the wrong direction again. Peak of this next wave isn't expected until late August or September.

[Balta1701]

5 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

 

 

Cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are trending in the wrong direction again. Peak of this next wave isn't expected until late August or September.

Serious Q, how does someone project the time of this peak with this many unknowns?

[StrangeSox]

23 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Serious Q, how does someone project the time of this peak with this many unknowns?

Epidemiological models? They provide a somewhat broad projection but it's not so unknown that it's impossible to make reasonable estimates.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, StrangeSox said:

Epidemiological models? They provide a somewhat broad projection but it's not so unknown that it's impossible to make reasonable estimates.

That IHME model/Murray/University of Washington was always based on 3 if not 5 different levels of mitigation, best-case/worst-case/medium, etc.

[StrangeSox]

The ihme model was always obviously trash, though. It was a pure mathematical curve that kept projecting the whole thing would be over in 60 days.

[caulfield12]

51 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

The ihme model was always obviously trash, though. It was a pure mathematical curve that kept projecting the whole thing would be over in 60 days.

Then go with Imperial College if you prefer the more academic ones…

[Balta1701]

56 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

The ihme model was always obviously trash, though. It was a pure mathematical curve that kept projecting the whole thing would be over in 60 days.

Somewhere in September in this thread there is a post by me saying f*** this model is predicting 300k cases a day in the US by Christmas and that is such an insane number of deaths that we have to avoid it. We decided it was fine.

[Two-Gun Pete]

13 hours ago, ron883 said:

Keep carrying water for your precious main stream media companies, Pete. 

Yawn.

Literally, some folks here step up and defend Fox News with "whattabout" more than they defend this country, since they never served. OTOH, you never see anyone "whattabout" from the other side. 

Trying to "whattabout," and then trying to make it about "main stream media companies" is a limp straw man argument. YOU bring up the "whattabout" bullshit at any opportunity, not me.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[caulfield12]

To those who accept the findings of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other national experts, the response to vaccine skeptics is: the polio vaccine. It eradicated a debilitating disease. But to a certain cadre of Americans determined to believe anything but science, the coronavirus vaccine is a fascist, world-order, takeover drug created by the Chinese to speed things along. Even if further investigation finds that the novel coronavirus escaped through a lab accident in Wuhan, as some have long suspected, wouldn’t one still wish to inoculate oneself against such a potentially deadly disease?

Let’s just say, logic isn’t exactly humming along these days.

Fiscus, who is a pediatrician, knows this deeply. In interviews following her firing, she has said that her dismissal is symptomatic of a trend around the country that has resulted, as of May, in more than 250 public health officials leaving their jobs — either by firing or through protest resignations. She says Tennessee, which initially boasted one of the highest vaccination rates, is bowing to “saber-rattling of some of our legislators who felt that it was inappropriate to share the Mature Minor Doctrine that has been Tennessee Supreme Court case law since 1987.”

Thanks, surely, to political rhetoric, Tennessee’s fully vaccinated rate is about 38 percent, compared with roughly 48 percent nationwide, just as the more transmissible delta variant is sweeping the nation. To deal with this looming crisis, Tennessee has halted all vaccine outreach to adolescents, not only those related to covid-19.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/07/16/when-we-run-off-our-health-experts-we-get-what-we-deserve/