COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[Heads22]

13 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Yawn.

Literally, some folks here step up and defend Fox News with "whattabout" more than they defend this country, since they never served. OTOH, you never see anyone "whattabout" from the other side. 

Trying to "whattabout," and then trying to make it about "main stream media companies" is a limp straw man argument. YOU bring up the "whattabout" bullshit at any opportunity, not me.

it gets really tired being accused of being a "water carrier" or whatever for big pharma or the mainstream media or whatever when you simply want to see people get vaccinated because it's literally the best way to prevent needless death. i'm not in the pocket of pfizer. i could give two shits about cnn's ratings. vaccination is the best way to keep people from dying. just because people have diabetes or are overweight or whatever doesn't mean their deaths are more acceptable. shit, i can even understand vaccine hesitancy. my brother is vaccinated, my sister in law is not because she is pregnant and was concerned about possible complications from that. i get it. what i don't get are the q-style arguments against it, like its all for fauci, or that this is all intentional or whatever. fuck that. there's been thousands upon thousands of needless deaths and we have a tool to fight that

[greg775]

A betting person would not like the odds of the Olympics going off without a lot of problems re. Covid. a.) That part of the world has a lot of COVID cases. b.) The Olympic Village will be full of people from all over in close proximity to each other. Maybe the fact there will be no fans will negate all the signs of a COVID-ridden Olympics.

https://sports.yahoo.com/first-positive-covid-tests-athletes-035539672.html

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, Heads22 said:

it gets really tired being accused of being a "water carrier" or whatever for big pharma or the mainstream media or whatever when you simply want to see people get vaccinated because it's literally the best way to prevent needless death. i'm not in the pocket of pfizer. i could give two shits about cnn's ratings. vaccination is the best way to keep people from dying. just because people have diabetes or are overweight or whatever doesn't mean their deaths are more acceptable. shit, i can even understand vaccine hesitancy. my brother is vaccinated, my sister in law is not because she is pregnant and was concerned about possible complications from that. i get it. what i don't get are the q-style arguments against it, like its all for fauci, or that this is all intentional or whatever. fuck that. there's been thousands upon thousands of needless deaths and we have a tool to fight that

Until 2016, this would have been really obvious.  But even pandemics have been politicized.

[Two-Gun Pete]

7 hours ago, Heads22 said:

it gets really tired being accused of being a "water carrier" or whatever for big pharma or the mainstream media or whatever when you simply want to see people get vaccinated because it's literally the best way to prevent needless death. 

Agreed.

When the other guy starts with "whattabout," then tried to shift to "main stream media," then grasps for straws with "water carrying," its really weak fucking sauce.

From a lab or not, with or without Fauci, it still leads to the same end: get your fucking vaccine. Everything else is noise, really.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[Iwritecode]

On 7/17/2021 at 2:32 AM, greg775 said:

Yes harm is being done if the government is flagging posts for review. The government IMO has no right to comment on social media posts of citizens.

 I do not want Big Brother reading our facebook posts and tweets at all. Like I said before, many months ago, they would remove tweets about the virus being started in a lab. What is misinformation anyway? If somebody writes "Do not get vaxxed because down the line you could have medical problems caused by the vax" that probably would be flagged. It should not be flagged. It's somebody's opinion. Free speech, baby.

How can we get more people vaxxed? I would do a little bit of what they are doing now. Free commercial time for athletes and famous young people and regular people, too, imploring folks to get vaccinated so we can get rid of COVID once and for all. Just flood the airwaves with free ads. But DO NOT spy on people and do creepy things. An ad campaign has to be done to offset the fear people have of politicians in all this. 

Joe saying they'll go door to door and Kamala just saying "get vaccinated" on Twitter does not help. We need to kill the skeptical with kindness and beg them to get vaxxed for the good of all.

There are some people that aren't going to get the vaccine no matter what. It doesn't matter who says they should get it or what the facts say. They'd rather die instead.

Quote

 

MOUNTAIN HOME, Ark. — When the boat factory in this leafy Ozark Mountains city offered free coronavirus vaccinations this spring, Susan Johnson, 62, a receptionist there, declined the offer, figuring she was protected as long as she never left her house without a mask.

Linda Marion, 68, a widow with chronic pulmonary disease, worried that a vaccination might actually trigger Covid-19 and kill her. Barbara Billigmeier, 74, an avid golfer who retired here from California, believed she did not need it because “I never get sick.”

Last week, all three were patients on 2 West, an overflow ward that is now largely devoted to treating Covid-19 at Baxter Regional Medical Center, the largest hospital in north-central Arkansas. Mrs. Billigmeier said the scariest part was that “you can’t breathe.” For 10 days, Ms. Johnson had relied on supplemental oxygen being fed to her lungs through nasal tubes.

Ms. Marion said that at one point, she felt so sick and frightened that she wanted to give up. “It was just terrible,” she said. “I felt like I couldn’t take it.”

Yet despite their ordeals, none of them changed their minds about getting vaccinated.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/17/us/arkansas-covid-19-vaccine.html

[CentralChamps21]

https://www.counterhate.com/disinformationdozen

Quote

Just twelve anti-vaxxers are responsible for almost two-thirds of anti-vaccine content circulating on social media platforms. This new analysis of content posted or shared to social media over 812,000 times between February and March uncovers how a tiny group of determined anti-vaxxers is responsible for a tidal wave of disinformation - and shows how platforms can fix it by enforcing their standards.

What this is essentially saying: while your Facebook feed might have friends sharing false vaccine information from dozens, perhaps hundreds, of people, just 12 people are generating all the false information that are getting shared, and then shared, and then shared, etc.

It's outrageous that social media platforms aren't willing to voluntarily deplatform these people, and even if they don't, I think the government is within its rights to force their hands.

The old first amendment adage is, "you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater". Well, the crowded theater is on fire and these 12 people are yelling "There's no fire" so as to drown out the fire alarms.

[NWINFan]

15 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Agreed.

When the other guy starts with "whattabout," then tried to shift to "main stream media," then grasps for straws with "water carrying," its really weak fucking sauce.

From a lab or not, with or without Fauci, it still leads to the same end: get your fucking vaccine. Everything else is noise, really.

You are right about the stupid noise. There is absolutely no proof that Fauci is benefiting from the pandemic. Was it created in a lab? I could care less. The main objective should be to get things under control and taking the vaccine is one way to do that. And no, those ailing patients in hospitals are not actors. For god's sake.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

https://www.counterhate.com/disinformationdozen

What this is essentially saying: while your Facebook feed might have friends sharing false vaccine information from dozens, perhaps hundreds, of people, just 12 people are generating all the false information that are getting shared, and then shared, and then shared, etc.

It's outrageous that social media platforms aren't willing to voluntarily deplatform these people, and even if they don't, I think the government is within its rights to force their hands.

The old first amendment adage is, "you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater". Well, the crowded theater is on fire and these 12 people are yelling "There's no fire" so as to drown out the fire alarms.

 

[greg775]

14 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

https://www.counterhate.com/disinformationdozen

What this is essentially saying: while your Facebook feed might have friends sharing false vaccine information from dozens, perhaps hundreds, of people, just 12 people are generating all the false information that are getting shared, and then shared, and then shared, etc.

It's outrageous that social media platforms aren't willing to voluntarily deplatform these people, and even if they don't, I think the government is within its rights to force their hands.

The old first amendment adage is, "you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater". Well, the crowded theater is on fire and these 12 people are yelling "There's no fire" so as to drown out the fire alarms.

Wrong (with all due respect). This is a free country. Let's see what those 12 people are saying. My guess is it's nothing worth banning and violating the precepts of free speech.

This vaccine stuff is very complicate and NOBODY KNOWS what some of the repercussions of getting vaccinated might be down the road. This is unacceptable if the government is trying to censor people through big business. That's a police state, a communist state and communism is horrific no matter what some people say. 

[greg775]

14 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Was it created in a lab? I could care less. 

Holy cow. You are not worried about our enemies? You are not worried about possible germ warfare down the line? If so, fine. I am worried about such.

[CentralChamps21]

Just now, greg775 said:

Wrong (with all due respect). This is a free country. Let's see what those 12 people are saying. My guess is it's nothing worth banning and violating the precepts of free speech.

This vaccine stuff is very complicate and NOBODY KNOWS what some of the repercussions of getting vaccinated might be down the road. This is unacceptable if the government is trying to censor people through big business. That's a police state, a communist state and communism is horrific no matter what some people say. 

Really? Here's another analogy for you. These twelve people are Jim Jones and they are getting millions to drink the kool-aid.

Obviously we don't know the effects of the vaccine beyond a year because nobody has been vaccinated for more than a year, though we have vaccines for plenty of other things so we have reasonable theories.

What these people are saying falls into one of two categories (1) saying the vaccine isn't effective, which has proven to be false and (2) saying definitively that bad things will happen if you get the vaccine, which isn't true.

The first amendment isn't absolute. People are literally dying because they are believing what these people say. That puts this beyond the small-minded "police state" argument.

[Tony]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Really? Here's another analogy for you. These twelve people are Jim Jones and they are getting millions to drink the kool-aid.

Obviously we don't know the effects of the vaccine beyond a year because nobody has been vaccinated for more than a year, though we have vaccines for plenty of other things so we have reasonable theories.

What these people are saying falls into one of two categories (1) saying the vaccine isn't effective, which has proven to be false and (2) saying definitively that bad things will happen if you get the vaccine, which isn't true.

The first amendment isn't absolute. People are literally dying because they are believing what these people say. That puts this beyond the small-minded "police state" argument.

Always love when greg uses a "my guess" to really shake things up. 

I mean, it goes back to the "harm principle" in a lot of ways. Everyone in this country, or world, getting vaccinated with help speed up the process of COVID-19 becoming a non-threat (hopefully). The vaccine also poses a very low threat of serious side effects based on the data we currently have. 

If the link above was accurate, those 12 people spreading mass amounts of dis-information is absolutely 100% harmful to the country and world and it isn't nearly as simple as screaming "FREE SPEECH!" 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

Always love when greg uses a "my guess" to really shake things up. 

I mean, it goes back to the "harm principle" in a lot of ways. Everyone in this country, or world, getting vaccinated with help speed up the process of COVID-19 becoming a non-threat (hopefully). The vaccine also poses a very low threat of serious side effects based on the data we currently have. 

If the link above was accurate, those 12 people spreading mass amounts of dis-information is absolutely 100% harmful to the country and world and it isn't nearly as simple as screaming "FREE SPEECH!" 

Especially because the right to free speech isn't absolute, and it doesn't exist at all in the private sector.

[KipWellsFan]

Just get everyone their first and second shot as soon as humanly possible. Or more people will die. This isn't complicated.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Holy cow. You are not worried about our enemies? You are not worried about possible germ warfare down the line? If so, fine. I am worried about such.

Ooh, goody!

What, exactly would you like, ACTUALLY FUCKING DO about such worries?

Would you actually modify your behavior? Or would you keep on doing the same stoopid shit? Would you actually serve your country if there was a threat, or would you, ya know, leave it to braver patriots than yourself?

 

Armchair warriors: what exactly would you do IF the coronavirus came from a lab? Would you run down to your local recruiter and enlist, or wuss out?

 

Armchair physicians: what exactly would you do differently than Fauci? Would your armchair doctorate help us protect this nation and the world?

 

(And remember, posting in the third person makes you a turd.)

Edited July 19, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[The Beast]

20 minutes ago, KipWellsFan said:

Just get everyone their first and second shot as soon as humanly possible. Or more people will die. This isn't complicated.

I still want to understand the rationale behind not getting the second dose from people who only got the first dose. 

P.S. What do people make of the Dow drop today as it relates to the Delta variant? Will it continue?

Edited July 19, 2021 by The Beast

[NWINFan]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

Holy cow. You are not worried about our enemies? You are not worried about possible germ warfare down the line? If so, fine. I am worried about such.

Don't misconstrue what I said. One thing at a a time. Besides, I don't believe in chasing after red-baiting conspiracy theories. It's funny how some didn't worry about Russian interference in the 2016 election but worry about unproven paranoia. Meanwhile, people should take the vaccine.

[greg775]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Especially because the right to free speech isn't absolute, and it doesn't exist at all in the private sector.

My contention is a.) let's see what the 12 people are posting. I don't think any of their statements should be taken off FB or Twitter because all opinions about this unknown vaccine could wind up being true. We.Don't.Know.For.Sure.

Now if some wacko is saying, "I am 100 percent sure there are devices in the vaccine meant to track your movements the rest of your life," or "I 100 percent will tell you the vaccine will shut down your organs within two years," I guess I might go for those sentences to be banned. I said "might." I do think most Americans don;'t need that, however, they can read it and determine for themselves that person is a wacko.

A post that says "my concern is vaccines will shut down my organs within a year or two," or "my concern is the vaccine has a honing device in it that will let Big Brother control my movements," I 100 percent am in favor of allowing this type of speech. Without freedom, we are nothing. I feel anybody trying to take away our freedom of speech is wrong, wrong wrong. That is my opinion. I am not trying to convince anybody to join me on this.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ooh, goody!

What, exactly would you like, ACTUALLY FUCKING DO about such worries?

Would you actually modify your behavior? Or would you keep on doing the same stoopid shit? Would you actually serve your country if there was a threat, or would you, ya know, leave it to braver patriots than yourself?

 

Armchair warriors: what exactly would you do IF the coronavirus came from a lab? Would you run down to your local recruiter and enlist, or wuss out?

  

Armchair physicians: what exactly would you do differently than Fauci? Would your armchair doctorate help us protect this nation and the world?

 

(And remember, posting in the third person makes you a turd.)

I think you are over-reacting to my response to his post about not caring about whether or not it came from a lab. I think it's important to know cause this all might have been intentional by our enemies. Yes China is our enemy for many reasons but most because of their brutal treatment of their own.

In answer to your question. Yes I would hope I would have the guts to enlist rather than wait for what I feel would happen."

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

My contention is a.) let's see what the 12 people are posting. I don't think any of their statements should be taken off FB or Twitter because all opinions about this unknown vaccine could wind up being true. We.Don't.Know.For.Sure.

Now if some wacko is saying, "I am 100 percent sure there are devices in the vaccine meant to track your movements the rest of your life," or "I 100 percent will tell you the vaccine will shut down your organs within two years," I guess I might go for those sentences to be banned. I said "might." I do think most Americans don;'t need that, however, they can read it and determine for themselves that person is a wacko.

A post that says "my concern is vaccines will shut down my organs within a year or two," or "my concern is the vaccine has a honing device in it that will let Big Brother control my movements," I 100 percent am in favor of allowing this type of speech. Without freedom, we are nothing. I feel anybody trying to take away our freedom of speech is wrong, wrong wrong. That is my opinion. I am not trying to convince anybody to join me on this.

Facebook and twitter can set whatever policy they want to set as private sector entities.  Unless you failed Civics, this has nothing to do with free speech.

[CentralChamps21]

53 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Facebook and twitter can set whatever policy they want to set as private sector entities.  Unless you failed Civics, this has nothing to do with free speech.

My argument is that it does have something to do with free speech, in that the speech that Facebook and Twitter is allowing is even more dangerous than yelling fire in a crowded theater and the government should force that content off social media if the sites won't do it themselves.

[CentralChamps21]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

My contention is a.) let's see what the 12 people are posting. I don't think any of their statements should be taken off FB or Twitter because all opinions about this unknown vaccine could wind up being true. We.Don't.Know.For.Sure.

Go read the link I posted to see exactly what these 12 people are posting. There is a clear difference between wild speculation and statements that are flatly contradicted by medical science, and what these 12 people are posting is overwhelmingly in the latter category.

There are a lot of things that we know for sure that these 12 people are trying very hard (and very successfully) to convince you aren't actually for sure.

[Soxbadger]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

My contention is a.) let's see what the 12 people are posting. I don't think any of their statements should be taken off FB or Twitter because all opinions about this unknown vaccine could wind up being true. We.Don't.Know.For.Sure.

Now if some wacko is saying, "I am 100 percent sure there are devices in the vaccine meant to track your movements the rest of your life," or "I 100 percent will tell you the vaccine will shut down your organs within two years," I guess I might go for those sentences to be banned. I said "might." I do think most Americans don;'t need that, however, they can read it and determine for themselves that person is a wacko.

A post that says "my concern is vaccines will shut down my organs within a year or two," or "my concern is the vaccine has a honing device in it that will let Big Brother control my movements," I 100 percent am in favor of allowing this type of speech. Without freedom, we are nothing. I feel anybody trying to take away our freedom of speech is wrong, wrong wrong. That is my opinion. I am not trying to convince anybody to join me on this.

 

6 hours ago, greg775 said:

Wrong (with all due respect). This is a free country. Let's see what those 12 people are saying. My guess is it's nothing worth banning and violating the precepts of free speech.

This vaccine stuff is very complicate and NOBODY KNOWS what some of the repercussions of getting vaccinated might be down the road. This is unacceptable if the government is trying to censor people through big business. That's a police state, a communist state and communism is horrific no matter what some people say. 

 

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, greg775 said:

Wrong (with all due respect). This is a free country. Let's see what those 12 people are saying. My guess is it's nothing worth banning and violating the precepts of free speech.

This vaccine stuff is very complicate and NOBODY KNOWS what some of the repercussions of getting vaccinated might be down the road. This is unacceptable if the government is trying to censor people through big business. That's a police state, a communist state and communism is horrific no matter what some people say. 

Why were the American people so willing to fight back against polio?  Mumps, measles, smallpox, rubella, yellow fever? Tuberculosis?   Why do high school athletes even need to get physicals?
 

Why follow rules at all, like needing to get a driver’s license, wearing seat belts, NOT driving while drunk or buzzed and adhering to speed limits?

Let everyone have a gun that wants one.  Heck, might as well let everyone be issued an AR-15 by the American government upon turning 16 or 18 to satisfy those 2nd Amendment strict constructionists.

Freedom!

 

To me, not getting vaccinated or even caring about others around you is basically the same as likely having an STD (think AIDS/HIV or herpes), stubbornly refusing to be checked or tested, and simultaneously not informing any of your partners or simply lying about it “because using protection isn’t fun or the same feeling.”

How is it not selfishness?  It’s a newly protected freedom, apparently…and yet how many times do we hear about lawsuits against celebrities or athletes in these situations?

With Covid, it’s very challenging legally to prove who gave it to you, so perhaps that’s at least 50% of the challenge for governments as well as employers.

Edited July 20, 2021 by caulfield12

[greg775]

27 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why were the American people so willing to fight back against polio?  Mumps, measles, smallpox, rubella, yellow fever? Tuberculosis?   Why do high school athletes even need to get physicals?

I have no idea. Did the people accept these vaccines in good faith right away? Was there any concern at all? Were those vaxxes deemed safe right away? I mean have you seen the clips of Kamala and Joe being asked about the vax when Trump was in office? Both said it'd be hard to take it. I just saw those clips again yesterday. 50 percent of America is rebelling and nobody should blame them. This thing has been very political like everything else. I can't blame people for not trusting the government and hence the vax. I just can't. Yes I wish they'd all get vaxxed, but it's still their choice and their choice to speak out against vaxxes.

p.s. I had to laugh when Joe said "my friends in the Republican party ... have you no shame?" Cmon it works both ways. Politicians on one side are 100 percent against politicians on the other side and people aren't dumb. They won't play along. They are worried about the vaccine. Some people like greg put aside political differences and still assume the best about those who developed the vaxxes and recommend i get vaxxed. So I get vaxxed.

Surprised some of you aren't buying the "freedom" issue in this. Folks if we lose our rights we are doomed if we are not already doomed. Freedom baby.

Edited July 20, 2021 by greg775