COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[greg775]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The government can ASK all they want, and that is still not an impingement of free speech.   You also understand that you have no right to damage other people and call it freedom of speech, right? 

 You want to talk about offensive, let's talk about your Soxtalk act.

You said 'stay on topic' and I was right in the middle of the topic. Boom. You can't see why I'd be offended?

But you won't apologize, you'll just think of another sentence as you are very very good at posting. Your last sentence is very defensive/silly IMO. Nice deflection.

I tried to solve this by putting you on ignore, but it doesn't let us ignore mods. Or if it does I can't figure out how. 

In answer to your question, "You also understand that you have no right to damage other people and call it freedom of speech, right?" I don't really understand the question. You are referring to the spreaders of "misinformation" on FB I guess. My contention is who decides if it is "misinformation?" So I say let people post what they want and let reasonable minds decide if it's true or not. Freedom means everything to me.

[he gone.]

2 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

 

Im vaccinated, but my children are not because they are too young. My child will go to school next year and be surrounded by other children. If they get covid and we have no idea what the long term impact is. I cant potentially take them on a trip because maybe a sub 3 year old wont wear a mask. I cant plan things for the future, because who knows if we are going to have another lockdown and we wont be able to go anywhere. 

That isnt even getting into the potential economic disaster that is on the horizon if there is another lockdown and if we cant put covid in the background. Who knows how many people will lose their jobs again, etc.

This isnt even getting into the societal argument that I dont want people to unnecessarily die over stupidity.

But yes, if I want to be extremely selfish and only think about my personal health, I am probably fine. Too bad I actually worry about other people. Sympathy is such a character flaw. 

be as you are. the whole response there is wrought with some pretty heavy implied tones towards my response, mostly that I am unsympathetic i guess? 

My angle is not one that is unsympathetic, more so, i dont get why people continue to try and get frustrated on things out of their control. Covid life is not stopping anytime soon. The view should be a pragmatic one. 

• There will be variants. Some will be worse than others. Some will be protected by first vaccines, some will not. 
• There will be booster shots. The only reason the government is shying away from the Pfizer booster is again, to save face 
  • That's an overreaching theme. Its hard to steer a large ship forward. The government continues to try and toe the line like they did with masks and lockdowns, however it's tough. I think they fear that if they say a booster is needed that those without a vaccine are even more unlikely to get a vaccine. That said, we're at the point of stragglers. Those who wanted it, got it. You may convince on the fringes here out, but I find it very unlikely that they're doing anybody any good by not moving forward with the booster. i have a feeling they'll let some time pass, really ratchet up the delta talk in the media, and poof! boosters will be recommmended.
• This will take time to burn out. Lots of time. Again, you're talking global economy. When you're talking countries like Nigeria where 0.7% of the population is vaccinated? There's way too many of those countries. There are so many underdeveloped countries and those will continue to spread the virus and mutations of the virus. Rinse and repeat, there will be a cocktail of new vaccines that protect better against some variants and those will be recommended. 

The rest is weighing the positives and negatives of any policy or decision. Those should generally be left up to the individual in my opinion. So in your case it seems as if you'd like to be cautious. And that's fine and your call. If you feel the risk of travel is too great, then you should be free to operate within your own guidelines. In general the part of the government is to steer the conversation to the best outcome. That may mean mask mandates again. I think you'd be hard pressed to shut down things again though. With where the country is in regards to vaccine and herd immunity (especially vaccines among the elderly) I think the upside/downside of where were at as a country probably leans towards keeping everything running. That may not be true for all countries, but for ours, I'd guess that's the path. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, greg775 said:

You said 'stay on topic' and I was right in the middle of the topic. Boom. You can't see why I'd be offended?

But you won't apologize, you'll just think of another sentence as you are very very good at posting. Your last sentence is very defensive/silly IMO. Nice deflection.

I tried to solve this by putting you on ignore, but it doesn't let us ignore mods. Or if it does I can't figure out how. 

In answer to your question, "You also understand that you have no right to damage other people and call it freedom of speech, right?" I don't really understand the question. You are referring to the spreaders of "misinformation" on FB I guess. My contention is who decides if it is "misinformation?" So I say let people post what they want and let reasonable minds decide if it's true or not. Freedom means everything to me.

Pretty sure this thread isn't about "communism" but nice try.

It also isn't about your seeming to misunderstand what "freedom of speech" actually is.

One has NEVER been able to say or do whatever they want.  That's why we have libel and slander laws.  You have never been able to yell fire in a crowd, and escape legal consequences.

But you know through your profession already.

[greg775]

3 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

There will be booster shots. The only reason the government is shying away from the Pfizer booster is again, to save face 

If true, that's scary. Bring on the boosters if that's the way to go. "Saving face" is scary stuff. Are we doing what's best for people or not?

[greg775]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Pretty sure this thread isn't about "communism" but nice try.

 It also isn't about your seeming to misunderstand what "freedom of speech" actually is.

One has NEVER been able to say or do whatever they want.  That's why we have libel and slander laws.  You have never been able to yell fire in a crowd, and escape legal consequences.

 But you know through your profession already.

I still personally think my position is right on the FB controversy. I'd say "agree to disagree" but I've found that response hasn't worked for me on here in the past. Oh well, I'll just respond with emojis on any futher posts on this topic. Peace and avoid COVID.

[Dick Allen]

8 minutes ago, greg775 said:

You said 'stay on topic' and I was right in the middle of the topic. Boom. You can't see why I'd be offended?

But you won't apologize, you'll just think of another sentence as you are very very good at posting. Your last sentence is very defensive/silly IMO. Nice deflection.

I tried to solve this by putting you on ignore, but it doesn't let us ignore mods. Or if it does I can't figure out how. 

In answer to your question, "You also understand that you have no right to damage other people and call it freedom of speech, right?" I don't really understand the question. You are referring to the spreaders of "misinformation" on FB I guess. My contention is who decides if it is "misinformation?" So I say let people post what they want and let reasonable minds decide if it's true or not. Freedom means everything to me.

What I don't understand is the selective outrage. Why aren't people outraged they have to wear a seat belt driving their own car? Why are they not outraged people next to them in a crowded bar cannot smoke? Why are they outraged you are expected to wear pants in public? It's a serious question. What is the line? Is it where you favorite politicians or media figures want to draw it?

[raBBit]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Pretty sure this thread isn't about "communism" but nice try.

It also isn't about your seeming to misunderstand what "freedom of speech" actually is.

 One has NEVER been able to say or do whatever they want.  That's why we have libel and slander laws.  You have never been able to yell fire in a crowd, and escape legal consequences.

 But you know through your profession already.

Is this thread about you alluding to a poster's profession that you've found out using your administrative powers? Seems like an abuse of power to me but I don't want to interrupt you from defending our corporations colluding with the government. 

[greg775]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What I don't understand is the selective outrage. Why aren't people outraged they have to wear a seat belt driving their own car? Why are they not outraged people next to them in a crowded bar cannot smoke? Why are they outraged you are expected to wear pants in public? It's a serious question. What is the line? Is it where you favorite politicians or media figures want to draw it?

I find those good questions. I just thought the FB stuff is merely information being presented and reasonably intelligent people can accept it or deem it false. You make fair points, however IMO.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Is this thread about you alluding to a poster's profession that you've found out using your administrative powers? Seems like an abuse of power to me but I don't want to interrupt you from defending our corporations colluding with the government. 

Nice try, but no.  He outed himself years ago.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What I don't understand is the selective outrage. Why aren't people outraged they have to wear a seat belt driving their own car? Why are they not outraged people next to them in a crowded bar cannot smoke? Why are they outraged you are expected to wear pants in public? It's a serious question. What is the line? Is it where you favorite politicians or media figures want to draw it?

Or drug restrictions.  Or immigration restrictions.  Or the draft. Or voting restrictions.  Or prisons in general...  So on and so on.

[Dick Allen]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Or drug restrictions.  Or immigration restrictions.  Or the draft. Or voting restrictions.  Or prisons in general...  So on and so on.

Partisan politics has trumped( pun intended, although it was heading this way long before him, he just took it to the finish line) common sense. And a vaccine to protect people during a pandemic is controversial. Good thing they haven't come up with a cure for cancer yet. People might be pissed off they can't just get chemo and die. But this is even worse. You only kill yourself with that. Covid, you can wipe out several. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Dick Allen

[chitownsportsfan]

How bout that Tom Brady!

[Balta1701]

6 hours ago, raBBit said:

 

The scene in Paris for the vaccine passport protests. 

 

[caulfield12]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/flushing-10-times-what-s-really-behind-trump-s-tirades-n1111691

Our former president spent more time going on rants about water pressure in showers, restrictions on the volume of water per flush of a toilet, difficulties with dishwaters not cleaning well enough (not that he ever did them in his lifetime)…than simply telling Americans to get vaccinated, or that 99.9% of the deaths or intubations for much of this year are coming from the unvaccinated.  Just selfishness and lack of empathy.  

It’s all about that me-first culture.  Not caring about how others around us are affected.  And it has been a part of the American zeitgeist since at least the 1980’s.   But there was still a certain amount of civility and respect for others, including presidents of opposing parties…now it’s just an all out war today, with no quarter given.

 

Greg, do you really think Jesus if he was around today would be an anti-vaxxer?

[Soxbadger]

7 hours ago, greg775 said:

Ten years ago we'd all trust the government and we'd all be vaxxed. I feel your pain. I do. I want us all to be vaxxed via a safe vaccine that will do its job, not cause problems down the line. Today, only half of us are vaxxed because of many reasons, mainly distrust of those in charge. Think about how divided we will be 10 years from now if this continues. Sorry you are going through this, Badger. I can tell you are very frustrated/upset. We did our part you and me. We are vaxxed. Let's hope a charismatic leader, in my mind a John Kennedy or Reagan, can emerge that we can all get behind in the future before we are doomed. We are obviously on a path that will lead to secession at best; civil war at worst.

In the meantime, let's hope the unvaxxed realize it's not too late. Get vaxxed and hopefully in a month if they can avoid Delta strain they'll be protected. Surely the unvaxxed are a little bit scared about hospitalizations via the Delta strain.

 

Greg,

 

All I  can say is "be the change you want to see in the world." If we dont want things to get worse, then we need to be the ones to do our part to make it better. Many other generations of Americans faced difficult tasks and they had to rise to the occasion. This will likely be my generations greatest test, we have to come together and beat this.

 

 

7 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

be as you are. the whole response there is wrought with some pretty heavy implied tones towards my response, mostly that I am unsympathetic i guess? 

My angle is not one that is unsympathetic, more so, i dont get why people continue to try and get frustrated on things out of their control. Covid life is not stopping anytime soon. The view should be a pragmatic one. 

• There will be variants. Some will be worse than others. Some will be protected by first vaccines, some will not. 
• There will be booster shots. The only reason the government is shying away from the Pfizer booster is again, to save face 
  • That's an overreaching theme. Its hard to steer a large ship forward. The government continues to try and toe the line like they did with masks and lockdowns, however it's tough. I think they fear that if they say a booster is needed that those without a vaccine are even more unlikely to get a vaccine. That said, we're at the point of stragglers. Those who wanted it, got it. You may convince on the fringes here out, but I find it very unlikely that they're doing anybody any good by not moving forward with the booster. i have a feeling they'll let some time pass, really ratchet up the delta talk in the media, and poof! boosters will be recommmended.
• This will take time to burn out. Lots of time. Again, you're talking global economy. When you're talking countries like Nigeria where 0.7% of the population is vaccinated? There's way too many of those countries. There are so many underdeveloped countries and those will continue to spread the virus and mutations of the virus. Rinse and repeat, there will be a cocktail of new vaccines that protect better against some variants and those will be recommended. 

The rest is weighing the positives and negatives of any policy or decision. Those should generally be left up to the individual in my opinion. So in your case it seems as if you'd like to be cautious. And that's fine and your call. If you feel the risk of travel is too great, then you should be free to operate within your own guidelines. In general the part of the government is to steer the conversation to the best outcome. That may mean mask mandates again. I think you'd be hard pressed to shut down things again though. With where the country is in regards to vaccine and herd immunity (especially vaccines among the elderly) I think the upside/downside of where were at as a country probably leans towards keeping everything running. That may not be true for all countries, but for ours, I'd guess that's the path. 

 

Where I disagree is that its out of my control. Maybe no one will ever read a word I say, but maybe they will. Maybe I can convince 1 person, who convinces 1 more person and it makes a difference. Its simply not acceptable to live through a catastrophic event and not ask yourself "What can I do?". Im not a doctor, Im not a scientist, Im not anyone that can make a direct impact, but every once in a while I can write something that maybe makes a little sense to someone. So why wouldnt I try? 

There is nothing "pragmatic" about your approach. The pragmatic approach is to go to whatever lengths possible to keep convincing people to get the vaccine. Being complacent has never accomplished anything.

This makes no sense with what I was saying. I want to go on an airplane, Im fine taking the risk that he will be okay sitting in a row that I pay for. The problem is that right now airlines are enforcing a mask possible, which means I cant operate in my own guidelines. So since the govt is going to interfere with my life until we get through this, I am going to do my best to make it happen as quickly as possible.

You can window dress any argument, but its really simple: Vaccines will mean we get our lives back faster. As long as that is true, I am going to try and convince people to get vaccines. 

 

 

[The Beast]

12 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

I still don't get why vaccinated v unvaccinated would evoke any type of anger at this point. if you're vaccinated, you should be generally protected from getting very sick/dying. So if you're vaccinated, then you should be at peace. 

If your angle is you're concerned about variants - then take a math and science class. variants will continue to run through the alphabet. delta, gamma, iota, etc. etc. You're not going to get all of India and Africa vaccinated and mutations will continue to occur. It's a global economy and it will continue to spread across the globe. You see it in places like Israel where they are very vaccinated and it's still occurring. So, to get mad at unvaccinated people? Don't understand it, nor will it change anything. It's like yelling at traffic on the Ike at 5pm ... just learn to live in it. If those people get sick? that's their choice. hospitals should have the capacity. 

If you're angry now, imagine the conversation on the booster shots over the next few years? You think it was hard to get 50% of the population vaccinated, then wait until you can only get 35-40% of the population to line up for boosters. The delta variant is already poking holes in the double vaccinated ... so what happens when there's a more prevalent strand? 

 

At the end of the day there's several ways to reach heard immunity and a whole bunch of science, math and case studies to look back into as we learn more about what has happened, is going on, and what will happen in the future. Herd immunity is likely to be met via a combo of vaccinations and catching covid. I think the key is the higher transmission rate is happening in those under 40. This is a positive thing. 

 

11 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

 

Im vaccinated, but my children are not because they are too young. My child will go to school next year and be surrounded by other children. If they get covid and we have no idea what the long term impact is. I cant potentially take them on a trip because maybe a sub 3 year old wont wear a mask. I cant plan things for the future, because who knows if we are going to have another lockdown and we wont be able to go anywhere. 

That isnt even getting into the potential economic disaster that is on the horizon if there is another lockdown and if we cant put covid in the background. Who knows how many people will lose their jobs again, etc.

This isnt even getting into the societal argument that I dont want people to unnecessarily die over stupidity.

But yes, if I want to be extremely selfish and only think about my personal health, I am probably fine. Too bad I actually worry about other people. Sympathy is such a character flaw. 

I am vaccinated and so is my wife. We had our son last year on Election Day. He can’t be vaccinated yet and probably won’t until next year. For the moment and until at least 2022 when I am able to change jobs and switch our insurance back to hers, I work from home. She is going back to teach after nine months and he is going to daycare. 

While I am okay working from home, I am concerned about what could happen at my wife’s school since the debate right now is either an honor system where if you aren’t vaccinated you have to wear a mask and if you are you do not have to or they will start the year with masks and assess how things are going before removing the mask mandate. Without wearing masks and knowing how many kids have gotten vaccinated, we remain concerned that it is possible that she could potentially bring the virus home and it could impact our son. We are also concerned that Covid could break out at daycare because of unvaccinated parents but we don’t have much control over that, we have to work.

More nationally, I remain concerned that the unvaccinated and vaccine hesitant won’t get the vaccine and variants will emerge that will get through vaccines and eventually we will have lockdowns, economic impacts, overwhelming deaths and hospitalizations and not be able to have a normal life like we couldn’t for much of last year. I am also concerned that many people can’t be convinced to get the vaccine and instead believe in misinformation.

Getting the vaccine makes more sense than getting a virus that may have long term impacts. People’s stupidity and stubbornness really makes me angry, especially if it is because of a political motive (2022 and 2024), individual rights or if it is because of believing conspiracy theories. 

[greg775]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

 Just selfishness and lack of empathy.  

It’s all about that me-first culture.  Not caring about how others around us are affected.

Greg, do you really think Jesus if he was around today would be an anti-vaxxer?

First part: selfishness and lack of empathy? Yeah but I think the VAST MAJORITY of those who won't get vaxxed have CONCERN (for their own health down the line; the vaccine isn't even approved yet) and ANGER AT POLITICIANS and scientists who have turned into TV stars and book deal stars. Caulfield do you disagree with me on this? It's not JUST selfishness and lack of empathy, many are concerned they will face problems down the road if they get vaxxed and they DO NOT TRUST anybody in politics or science on this.

The Jesus question ... well, my honest answer, Jesus who is all knowing would know whether or not the vaccines are safe now and down the line. Hence whatever he said would be the way I'd go with this. Being a loving God I am convinced he would let us know whether or not the vaxxes were safe. If they were safe of course he'd be a vaxxer not an anti vaxxer. 

Caulfield you are a smart person. I'm curious why you blindly disregard the opinion of the anti vaxxers that the vaxxes might cause problems down the road in our bodies. Peace out. Frankly even though I was a willing vaxxer and was poked twice, I can't tell you FOR SURE that I might be hosed down the road. I feel an educated person "should" come to the conclusion it is smart to get vaxxed. Just my take.

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by greg775

[greg775]

49 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Getting the vaccine makes more sense than getting a virus that may have long term impacts.

I agreed and sympathized with almost all of your post. I do agree with this sentence especially. That's why I got double vaxxed, although I also was worried about the virus' immediate impact. I don't want to be gasping for breath and die in the hospital.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Soxbadger said:

 

Greg,

 

All I  can say is "be the change you want to see in the world." If we dont want things to get worse, then we need to be the ones to do our part to make it better. Many other generations of Americans faced difficult tasks and they had to rise to the occasion. This will likely be my generations greatest test, we have to come together and beat this.

 

 

 

Where I disagree is that its out of my control. Maybe no one will ever read a word I say, but maybe they will. Maybe I can convince 1 person, who convinces 1 more person and it makes a difference. Its simply not acceptable to live through a catastrophic event and not ask yourself "What can I do?". Im not a doctor, Im not a scientist, Im not anyone that can make a direct impact, but every once in a while I can write something that maybe makes a little sense to someone. So why wouldnt I try? 

There is nothing "pragmatic" about your approach. The pragmatic approach is to go to whatever lengths possible to keep convincing people to get the vaccine. Being complacent has never accomplished anything.

This makes no sense with what I was saying. I want to go on an airplane, Im fine taking the risk that he will be okay sitting in a row that I pay for. The problem is that right now airlines are enforcing a mask possible, which means I cant operate in my own guidelines. So since the govt is going to interfere with my life until we get through this, I am going to do my best to make it happen as quickly as possible.

You can window dress any argument, but its really simple: Vaccines will mean we get our lives back faster. As long as that is true, I am going to try and convince people to get vaccines. 

 

 

I enjoyed your post. As far as your last sentence, I think once the FDA approves the vaccines I'll be more forceful in asking people to get vaxxed at church and in society that I come across. At this present time I feel that even though I believe in the vaccine I can't be emphatic that others get vaxxed because I understand their concerns. Even though they seem as if they are selfish, some like this lady at church I conversed with, truly are scared of the vax.

[ron883]

24 minutes ago, greg775 said:

First part: selfishness and lack of empathy? Yeah but I think the VAST MAJORITY of those who won't get vaxxed have CONCERN (for their own health down the line; the vaccine isn't even approved yet) and ANGER AT POLITICIANS and scientists who have turned into TV stars and book deal stars. Caulfield do you disagree with me on this? It's not JUST selfishness and lack of empathy, many are concerned they will face problems down the road if they get vaxxed and they DO NOT TRUST anybody in politics or science on this.

The Jesus question ... well, my honest answer, Jesus who is all knowing would know whether or not the vaccines are safe now and down the line. Hence whatever he said would be the way I'd go with this. Being a loving God I am convinced he would let us know whether or not the vaxxes were safe. If they were safe of course he'd be a vaxxer not an anti vaxxer. 

Caulfield you are a smart person. I'm curious why you blindly disregard the opinion of the anti vaxxers that the vaxxes might cause problems down the road in our bodies. Peace out. Frankly even though I was a willing vaxxer and was poked twice, I can't tell you FOR SURE that I might be hosed down the road. I feel an educated person "should" come to the conclusion it is smart to get vaxxed. Just my take.

 

I thought you always referred to him as G*d on here?

[greg775]

50 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I thought you always referred to him as G*d on here?

I've called people god, small g. But I spell out God for the real God.

[CentralChamps21]

7 hours ago, greg775 said:

I enjoyed your post. As far as your last sentence, I think once the FDA approves the vaccines I'll be more forceful in asking people to get vaxxed at church and in society that I come across. At this present time I feel that even though I believe in the vaccine I can't be emphatic that others get vaxxed because I understand their concerns. Even though they seem as if they are selfish, some like this lady at church I conversed with, truly are scared of the vax.

The only difference between Emergency Use Authorization, which is what we have now, and full FDA approval, is time. The EUA we have now required a rigorous testing process. If you are hearing people say that waiting for FDA approval is important, they either don't understand what they are talking about, or deliberately obfuscating, and the ones who are deliberately obfuscating will latch on to something different over which to obfuscate once the FDA approval comes.

I can't find it right now to link to it for you, but I saw a poll that asked unvaccinated people why they hadn't gotten vaccinated and 45% said it was because of the lack of full FDA approval. It asked the same group of people if they w It's discriminatory if they were going to get vaccinated after full FDA approval and only 20% said yes. So 25% of the people said that approval was the reason they aren't getting vaccinated but don't plan to get vaccinated after approval.

[raBBit]

13 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

 

Not sure why you quoted me with a link irrelevant to mine. 

[Balta1701]

59 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Not sure why you quoted me with a link irrelevant to mine. 

"Look, everyone thinks vaccine passports are terrible!"

"Except Fox News, who are using a vaccine passport in their own business while their hosts are saying how bad vaccine passports would be."

[Tony]

29 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

"Look, everyone thinks vaccine passports are terrible!"

"Except Fox News, who are using a vaccine passport in their own business while their hosts are saying how bad vaccine passports would be."

Fox News has been pro vax....I was told that by someone who doesn't watch the network, but still. You're wrong.