FS: Jake Burger: Forgotten, but not (yet) gone

[ptatc]

13 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

JJ Watt is 500% on steroids.

Of course he is. He has all the signs. Increasing helmet size, awful acne, baldness and of course violent mood swings. By all accounts he's a total jerk and few people can tolerate the guy. And it's not like genetics could be involved look at his brothers they are tiny thin guys.

[Dominikk85]

There are fat good mlb Players and some even had a long career (many declined early though) but the majority of mlb players is not fat especially if you look at non 1b/dh guys.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

It's really difficult to get your heart rate up consistently doing only upper body activity.  His lower extremity restrictions had to be very conservative after 2 tears.  His career could very well be over but to assume it's because he is lazy and doesnt care anymore is a big leap.

Thanks for sharing that patc!

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 hours ago, ptatc said:

Of course he is. He has all the signs. Increasing helmet size, awful acne, baldness and of course violent mood swings. By all accounts he's a total jerk and few people can tolerate the guy. And it's not like genetics could be involved look at his brothers they are tiny thin guys.

JJ Watt was a 200 pound tight end out of high school at central Michigan. 

His brother was a 175 pound safety. 

He's now a 290 pound DE. I'm sure it's just his genetics changed at 20 years old, though. 

A majority of nFL players are on some form of performance enhancing drugs. Not sure why that's breaking news. I dont even care; I'm not even saying its cheating or anything.

[ptatc]

43 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

JJ Watt was a 200 pound tight end out of high school at central Michigan. 

His brother was a 175 pound safety. 

He's now a 290 pound DE. I'm sure it's just his genetics changed at 20 years old, though. 

A majority of nFL players are on some form of performance enhancing drugs. Not sure why that's breaking news. I dont even care; I'm not even saying its cheating or anything.

You are wrong about the majority of the  NFL players being on PEDs. Are there some, sure. Could JJ, sure. But the idea that majority are and JJ is just because of his muscle bulk are antiquated stereotypes.  

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

10 minutes ago, ptatc said:

You are wrong about the majority of the  NFL players being on PEDs. Are there some, sure. Could JJ, sure. But the idea that majority are and JJ is just because of his muscle bulk are antiquated stereotypes.  

Lol ok.

Bulk lol. He gained 70 pounds of muscle mass in like 24 months.  

The nfl is riddled with PED use and I have no idea how you could call me "wrong." You were likely one telling people the majority of big leaguers weren't juicing. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Dick Allen]

30 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Lol ok.

Bulk lol. He gained 70 pounds of muscle mass in like 24 months.  

The nfl is riddled with PED use and I have no idea how you could call me "wrong." You were likely one telling people the majority of big leaguers weren't juicing. 

A friend of mine played C at U of I. He was a 215 lb. LB his senior year in HS. He was a 285 lb.  C starting his freshman year in Champaign. I can guarantee you he didn't do steroids. He is a huge human being with an abnormally large frame. They had him eating different and lifting his ass off. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

A friend of mine played C at U of I. He was a 215 lb. LB his senior year in HS. He was a 285 lb.  C starting his freshman year in Champaign. I can guarantee you he didn't do steroids. He is a huge human being with an abnormally large frame. They had him eating different and lifting his ass off. 

Sure, and when JJ Watt is walking around as a 225 pound person again post-retirement we'll hear about the "lifting and eating programs" and how just shifting off of them caused him to return to go back. Or we'll here about his "cardio" efforts post football.

Your buddy wasn't 6'5 295 pounds running 4.8 40 yard dash with a 37 inch vertical.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[ptatc]

44 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Lol ok.

Bulk lol. He gained 70 pounds of muscle mass in like 24 months.  

The nfl is riddled with PED use and I have no idea how you could call me "wrong." You were likely one telling people the majority of big leaguers weren't juicing. 

No, I just don't make wild assumptions based on no facts. Back in the 70's ,80's and 90's PEDS were rampant because none of the leagues especially the NFL cared about them. They made the sports more exciting. Everyone involved with the tams knew what was going. If the same were happening today, we would all know what was going on, if it was the majority of players.

Here are reason why it's different today:

1. I know you don't acknowledge the science of blood testing but it's very difficult to cheat a test that just for levels not specific substances. Not impossible but very difficult.

2. Having worked in the NFL and MLB during the time of rampant PEDs, the look is very different.

3. The leagues now are more mindful of allowing things like PEDs and concussions and such that will bring lawsuits costing millions of dollars.

4. The players of today are very different. The attitude of I will do everything to play and stay in the NFL is gone. Players now are qutting as early as college because of what a concussion may do to their life after football, rightfully so. Are these the same players that will take the risk of brain, heart, liver and kidney issues in their life after football? No, it's not.

 

You can continue to blindly say that the majority are on PEDs based on your personal beliefs. However, the data of the blood tests and even the eye test show that majority are not. Some probably have figured something out but it would be very difficult for it to be wide spread.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, ptatc said:

No, I just don't make wild assumptions based on no facts. Back in the 70's ,80's and 90's PEDS were rampant because none of the leagues especially the NFL cared about them. They made the sports more exciting. Everyone involved with the tams knew what was going. If the same were happening today, we would all know what was going on, if it was the majority of players.

Here are reason why it's different today:

1. I know you don't acknowledge the science of blood testing but it's very difficult to cheat a test that just for levels not specific substances. Not impossible but very difficult.

2. Having worked in the NFL and MLB during the time of rampant PEDs, the look is very different.

3. The leagues now are more mindful of allowing things like PEDs and concussions and such that will bring lawsuits costing millions of dollars.

4. The players of today are very different. The attitude of I will do everything to play and stay in the NFL is gone. Players now are qutting as early as college because of what a concussion may do to their life after football, rightfully so. Are these the same players that will take the risk of brain, heart, liver and kidney issues in their life after football? No, it's not.

 

You can continue to blindly say that the majority are on PEDs based on your personal beliefs. However, the data of the blood tests and even the eye test show that majority are not. Some probably have figured something out but it would be very difficult for it to be wide spread.

Yes, and players are bigger, faster and stronger than they were in the 1990's in the NFL.

I'm sure it's just natural supplements.

1. Chemists will ALWAYS be ahead of testers.

2. You have absolutely no idea what players do away from your observation or view.

3. I'm using my two eyes to say people are using rampantly because they were using rampantly in college in 2005-2009 and I am 100% sure everyone didn't just stop.

The Eye Test? hahahahahahaha my goodness. Again, players are bigger, faster and stronger than ever; certainly than the 90's when usage was rampant according to you.

Just like Usain Bolt and the entire Jamacain sprinting team is clean because they didn't test positive for PED's; Bolt just happens to be faster than every PED laced athlete. 

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, and players are bigger, faster and stronger than they were in the 1990's in the NFL.

I'm sure it's just natural supplements.

1. Chemists will ALWAYS be ahead of testers.

2. You have absolutely no idea what players do away from your observation or view.

3. I'm using my two eyes to say people are using rampantly because they were using rampantly in college in 2005-2009 and I am 100% sure everyone didn't just stop.

The Eye Test? hahahahahahaha my goodness. Again, players are bigger, faster and stronger than ever; certainly than the 90's when usage was rampant according to you.

Just like Usain Bolt and the entire Jamacain sprinting team is clean because they didn't test positive for PED's; Bolt just happens to be faster than every PED laced athlete. 

The entire population of the world is bigger and stronger than it ever has been.

1. Chemists don't matter as much when you don't have to test for a specific substance.

2. It doesn't matter what they do away from observation. Players talk, especially to the medical personnel, they want to know about the weird things happening to their bodies. The results are obvious when it changes.

3. They don't have the same testing in the NCAA. They can't get away with what they did in college. If this discussion was about the college game, I would have a different view.

You may think that the best athletes in all sports can't do it unless they are cheating, however other than personal opinion and cynicism they mean nothing.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The entire population of the world is bigger and stronger than it ever has been.

1. Chemists don't matter as much when you don't have to test for a specific substance.

2. It doesn't matter what they do away from observation. Players talk, especially to the medical personnel, they want to know about the weird things happening to their bodies. The results are obvious when it changes.

3. They don't have the same testing in the NCAA. They can't get away with what they did in college. If this discussion was about the college game, I would have a different view.

You may think that the best athletes in all sports can't do it unless they are cheating, however other than personal opinion and cynicism they mean nothing.

So they stopped when they got to the NFL? Got it. Man, we can just agree to disagree. I couldn't disagree with you more.

So Usain Bolt is clean; he's just outrunning a shit ton of dirty athletes because he's so good. Just like Lance Armstrong; he was just so great and he was beating a ton of cheaters, it wasn't that he was cheating too. 

If everyone is doing it, it's not even cheating to me... but to say that PED use isn't rampant is just flat out wrong. 

You know who players talk to more than their doctors? Fellow friends/teammates/athletes.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

Neither do you. 

Well actually, I do. But thanks for checking in.

I don't know what JJ Watt does, sure, but I certainly know what plenty of athletes have done away from their doctor supervision. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

But that won't stop you from making wild accusations about his life, and being 100% sure of something you have no idea about. 

 

Keep on keeping on. 

Fair enough; I don't think JJ Watt cares what I think about his PED use though.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

He doesn't. I think we can both agree that is a fact. 

That also doesn't mean it's OK to make claims as 100% fact when you admit you don't know what you're talking about, and it's simply your opinion. It doesn't matter if it's a message board. 

I actually said 500%, not 100%.

And I'll post as I please, thanks.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

For now. 

What does this even mean? LOL

Are you going to ban me for stating an opinion on a football players PED use? Go right ahead, bud. Nothing I enjoy more than internet threats from forum moderators. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

For now. 

If you're going to ban people for speculating about PED (or for that matter any sort of cheating in MLB/sports) you're not going to have a good message board.  This site is quite regressive when it comes to freedom of expression from the posters compared to most other communities.  I would suggest if you want to curtail certain discussions rather than banning posters you simply lock threads.

There's not much moderation here until the SHTF and then it's imo often over the top.

Just my 2 cents on that I'm done talking about jake burger until dude is seen on a baseball field in Sox or an affiliate's gear.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

If you're going to ban people for speculating about PED (or for that matter any sort of cheating in MLB/sports) you're not going to have a good message board.  This site is quite regressive when it comes to freedom of expression from the posters compared to most other communities.  I would suggest if you want to curtail certain discussions rather than banning posters you simply lock threads.

There's not much moderation here until the SHTF and then it's imo often over the top.

Just my 2 cents on that I'm done talking about jake burger until dude is seen on a baseball field in Sox or an affiliate's gear.

This guy has had a hard on for me since I started posting here; then he gets hyper defensive and sensitive when I respond to him, disagree with him, or call him out on his weird infatuation. 

Nothing more comical than someone waving their e-moderator powers around as some threat to curtail an opinion or discussion they don't approve of; as if my life would change or be altered if I was banned from Soxtalk. Maybe he should try responding to the post and not the poster. That's usually a good strategy. Usually moderators want to promote discussion and site growth but not at Soxtalk; in some cases, they want to push quality posters away; because they don't like them "personally."

Edited March 6, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This guy has had a hard on for me since I started posting here; then he gets hyper defensive and sensitive when I respond to him, disagree with him, or call him out on his weird infatuation. 

Nothing more comical than someone waving their e-moderator powers around as some threat to curtail an opinion or discussion they don't approve of; as if my life would change or be altered if I was banned from Soxtalk. Maybe he should try responding to the post and not the poster. That's usually a good strategy. Usually moderators want to promote discussion and site growth but not at Soxtalk; in some cases, they want to push quality posters away; because they don't like them "personally."

I'd suggest moving on it's not worth it and personally I'd like to see you continue posting here there are few new posters in the last few years that stir the drink.  You are one of them so we don't want to lose you.

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

You last month:

You this week: 

"Lolz, I have no proof of anything other than my eyes, but JJ Watt and his entire family use PEDS, along with most NFL Players. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot."

 

Yes, I'm the bad guy. 

Where did I call anyone an idiot? Where did I call anyone a name in general? 

I made a joke about flinstone vitamins and steroids, and then I laughed at the premise that gaining 80 pounds of muscle mass in 24 months is normal/achievable naturally. 

What does freedom, equality and fairness for all have to do with JJ Watt using PED's to become an awesome football player? What does human decency have to do with using a PED to run a faster 40 and be a DPOY?

I'm not really sure where you're going with that post; I'm not sure how they're at all related. Have a good one, big guy.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

Ah, now I get it. You're the guy on Twitter who replies to players on Twitter, calling them names, making accusations without a shred of evidence, and when you get called on your bullshit, it's "It's just Twitter bro, I'm not being serious..." 

Makes sense now. Don't have to show any human decency or fairness to athletes or public figures, it's just the internet! 

Ummmm, I don't call people names or attack people. Thanks for trying though. You insinuated that I called people idiots in this thread - wrong and not true. You insinuated that I call players and people names; 100% wrong based on the fact that I don't do that here, and certainly haven't called Watt a name. I even said he wasn't cheating by any means. 

I have never been one to attack people on the internet hiding behind anonymity, and that fact is supported by 4000 posts here in which I do not call people names or attack people just because their opinions differ from mine. You on the other hand? You very clearly make up things that people never said, and you respond to posters instead of their posts; turning things from opinion based discussions revolving around context, to personal interpretations of ones words based on your preconceived notions of who they are personally.

[ptatc]

56 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So they stopped when they got to the NFL? Got it. Man, we can just agree to disagree. I couldn't disagree with you more.

So Usain Bolt is clean; he's just outrunning a shit ton of dirty athletes because he's so good. Just like Lance Armstrong; he was just so great and he was beating a ton of cheaters, it wasn't that he was cheating too. 

If everyone is doing it, it's not even cheating to me... but to say that PED use isn't rampant is just flat out wrong. 

You know who players talk to more than their doctors? Fellow friends/teammates/athletes.

So your view is that anyone who is the best in the world or the best at what they do must be cheating to accomplish it? That is your evidence for Usain Bolt. I have no idea if he is cheating or not. The odds are against it based on the testing and protocols but it could happen. 

You cannot say that my view is wrong as you have no evidence. I have evidence of the validity and reliability of the blood test. 

You are correct that players talk to other players about what they do. You know where they discuss that? in the training room where no one but the players and medical staff are allowed, coaches are as well but they rarely venture in there. This is why we all knew what was going on long before it became public.

If all it takes for you to be convinced that someone is taking PEDs is that they need to be the best does that include Tom Brady, Drew Brees. Does it include Eluid Kipoge?

You have zero evidence that the majority of athlete are cheating. Zero other than your opinion based on them being the best and not getting caught. 

You are of course entitled to your opinion but if you are so convinced show me how they can beat the tests on a large scale. 

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

JJ Watt was a 200 pound tight end out of high school at central Michigan. 

His brother was a 175 pound safety. 

He's now a 290 pound DE. I'm sure it's just his genetics changed at 20 years old, though. 

A majority of nFL players are on some form of performance enhancing drugs. Not sure why that's breaking news. I dont even care; I'm not even saying its cheating or anything.

Hmmmm, but I said he was "cheating." 

My goodness man; read the posts and respond to them, or ignore them. Don't make up things I never said.

I don't even view PED use in the NFL as cheating - they need faster recovery times from fatigue and injury to maintain some degree of health. I don't blame a single player for using in the NFL.

[ptatc]

28 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This guy has had a hard on for me since I started posting here; then he gets hyper defensive and sensitive when I respond to him, disagree with him, or call him out on his weird infatuation. 

Nothing more comical than someone waving their e-moderator powers around as some threat to curtail an opinion or discussion they don't approve of; as if my life would change or be altered if I was banned from Soxtalk. Maybe he should try responding to the post and not the poster. That's usually a good strategy. Usually moderators want to promote discussion and site growth but not at Soxtalk; in some cases, they want to push quality posters away; because they don't like them "personally."

If you are referring to me, that is not my intention. I don't think we really have had much of a disagreement other than with your stance that PEDs are rampant in sports. I don't think I'm being defensive or sensitive, I just disagree with the issue when it's all opinion.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

So your view is that anyone who is the best in the world or the best at what they do must be cheating to accomplish it? That is your evidence for Usain Bolt. I have no idea if he is cheating or not. The odds are against it based on the testing and protocols but it could happen. 

You cannot say that my view is wrong as you have no evidence. I have evidence of the validity and reliability of the blood test. 

You are correct that players talk to other players about what they do. You know where they discuss that? in the training room where no one but the players and medical staff are allowed, coaches are as well but they rarely venture in there. This is why we all knew what was going on long before it became public.

If all it takes for you to be convinced that someone is taking PEDs is that they need to be the best does that include Tom Brady, Drew Brees. Does it include Eluid Kipoge?

You have zero evidence that the majority of athlete are cheating. Zero other than your opinion based on them being the best and not getting caught. 

You are of course entitled to your opinion but if you are so convinced show me how they can beat the tests on a large scale. 

 

I have said in the past here that if you told me in college that if I took PED's I would have been a professional baseball player I would have taken them like they were tic tacs. The good news for me is no amount of PED's was going to raise my average from 220 to 380. 

And yes, I don't think all athletes suddenly stopped after college. I also don't think usage suddenly ended the year after I graduated.

As for Bolt, come on. Track and Field is riddled with more users than anywhere else. He is dominating those users. Science tells me that what he is doing is unnatural; given that everyone uses though, I wouldn't even view it as cheating. 

How naive can we continue to be? These are the same excuses I heard about Lance Armstrong before it became a fact that he was using; oh, he has an enlarged heart! That's why he's able to beat all these users without using.