CWSpalehoseCWS Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: And exactly how was any of that worse than credibly-accused child sex assaulted, wife beaters, steroid cheats, or video sign stealers? (I also note that you had to go back 2 years to gin up a story about Puig, and not within the past 6-12 months, as I'd stipulated. ) I never said it was worse - don't twist my response. If you don't think that proves that he has issues being a professional, then I don't what else to say regarding the matter. You obviously have your mind made up about him. He's a problematic personality with incredibly replacement-level production. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said: Yeah, and at this point it’s obvious he won’t be expensive. And he is also playing for the rest of his career. If he acts up this time, good luck getting another job. Apparently he only thinks about the rest of his career when he really has to, not realizing the rest of your career is dependent on everything you do up to that point. He's his own worst enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: And exactly how was any of that worse than credibly-accused child sex assaulted, wife beaters, steroid cheats, or video sign stealers? (I also note that you had to go back 2 years to gin up a story about Puig, and not within the past 6-12 months, as I'd stipulated. ) Just because he hasn’t cheated or done something criminal does not prevent him from being a selfish prick who created drama within the clubhouse. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) I'd only sign him if Abreu signs off on it and only after Abreu has an in-person one-on-one with Puig. May sound ridiculous but I think Jose knows the personalities and clubhouse hierarchy better than even Renteria and would be able to properly evaluate the risk/reward of signing him. No offense to Grandal but dude should probably spend at least a week in the clubhouse before his endorsement counts for shit. Edited February 10, 2020 by mmmmmbeeer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: They only want him if they can launch him easily if he acts like a dick. He's cheap enough that it shouldn't matter. If he's going to be an asshat, they just tell him to go away, and he goes to Japan next year. So what's the amount where he is expendable ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: So what's the amount where he is expendable ? They paid Jon Jay $4M last year, so I'd say that's the upper limit. I think he could sign for the $3M that Pence just got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: I never said it was worse - don't twist my response. If you don't think that proves that he has issues being a professional, then I don't what else to say regarding the matter. You obviously have your mind made up about him. He's a problematic personality with incredibly replacement-level production. Which goes to show that you're overblowing what he is. I've stated that he's had his issues. And, I believe that men can evolve as they mature. (Which is why I stipulated the past 6-12 months for a citation from Puig's critics.) But, has he been a criminal, either alleged or convicted? Not to my knowledge. If AJ helped this team despite having had personality issues, other players can, too. 15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Just because he hasn’t cheated or done something criminal does not prevent him from being a selfish prick who created drama within the clubhouse. If you trust ricky to lead the team, and if you've paid Abreu to be a leader, then let them do so. If Grandal vouched for Puig (which he has, BTW), that seems to be a good enough endorsement as any. Full stop, he's a better defender than Mazara. Given that Robert will have Jimenez in LF, I'd rather have a better defensive RF than Mazara. And Puig is a better overall hitter than Mazara as well. Not saying he's a great player, because he isn't. And he's not without his issues. But his issues aren't as big a deal as many are purporting them to be. Certainly, there are ways to bridge them. I'm just not sure there are ways to bridge Mazara's 59 career wrc+ vs LHP, or Encarnacion's 37 years of age, by comparison. Edited February 10, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said: I'd only sign him if Abreu signs off on it and only after Abreu has an in-person one-on-one with Puig. May sound ridiculous but I think Jose knows the personalities and clubhouse hierarchy better than even Renteria and would be able to properly evaluate the risk/reward of signing him. No offense to Grandal but dude should probably spend at least a week in the clubhouse before his endorsement counts for shit. Abreu and Grandal have both vouched for Puig, BTW. Given that both have been his team mate, I'm pretty confident that they know what Puig is all about, for better or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: They paid Jon Jay $4M last year, so I'd say that's the upper limit. I think he could sign for the $3M that Pence just got. If the Sox have any interest at all in Puig or Puig in the Sox they both will wait He's still probably looking for more playing time and at least $5M a year . Highly unlikey the Sox want to pay him $3M or that he wants to be the weak side of a platoon to start the season. This will end with another team signing him like the Cards, Rays or Giants for more than the Sox were willing to pay or it will end up with him signing in March . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: If the Sox have any interest at all in Puig or Puig in the Sox they both will wait He's still probably looking for more playing time and at least $5M a year . Highly unlikey the Sox want to pay him $3M or that he wants to be the weak side of a platoon to start the season. This will end with another team signing him like the Cards, Rays or Giants for more than the Sox were willing to pay or it will end up with him signing in March . The Giants recent signings of Pence and Hamilton have likely ended their interest in Puig, but I agree that the Cardinals and Rays would still make sense. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/source-giants-free-agency-talks-yasiel-puig-all-dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: If the Sox have any interest at all in Puig or Puig in the Sox they both will wait He's still probably looking for more playing time and at least $5M a year . Highly unlikey the Sox want to pay him $3M or that he wants to be the weak side of a platoon to start the season. This will end with another team signing him like the Cards, Rays or Giants for more than the Sox were willing to pay or it will end up with him signing in March . Rays even have a lot of OF now so I'm not sure they are even a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) I don't know why we'd want Puig after acquiring that young RF'er Mazara. If we got Puig I'd think we'd trade Mazara or send him to minors. I guess we'd have some excess bodies if we get the Cuban outfield superstar candidate Colas and Puig. Maybe we'd trade EE or Jose or Puig for another very good starting pitcher. Edited February 10, 2020 by greg775 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 5 hours ago, greg775 said: I don't know why we'd want Puig after acquiring that young RF'er Mazara. If we got Puig I'd think we'd trade Mazara or send him to minors. I guess we'd have some excess bodies if we get the Cuban outfield superstar candidate Colas and Puig. Maybe we'd trade EE or Jose or Puig for another very good starting pitcher. Greg, Colas has nothing to do with it. If they sign him he will be in the low minors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I love how easy it is to cast stones. None of us know Puig personally but a lot of us are acting like we know how he acts in a closed clubhouse for a 180 games (ST included). I have a feeling if he signed here that he would be an instant fan favorite. My personal opinion though. I'm all for it. Keep the game fun. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 10 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: If the Sox have any interest at all in Puig or Puig in the Sox they both will wait He's still probably looking for more playing time and at least $5M a year . Highly unlikey the Sox want to pay him $3M or that he wants to be the weak side of a platoon to start the season. This will end with another team signing him like the Cards, Rays or Giants for more than the Sox were willing to pay or it will end up with him signing in March . Giants ain't happening. Rays just traded for another OF not happening. The Cubs are probably more of a fit than either of those teams, they just have Souza. Here are some teams that might happen ... Baltimore, Boston (JBJ to 4OF, Verdugo CF), both Chicago teams, Cleveland (most likely), Detroit, Seattle, Toronto. I think he ends up in Cleveland personally. I think he may have several offers on the table but that are low balled. Im guessing he's looking for playing time to build some sort of value. I'd take him in a heart beat. Him and Scooter Gennett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 17 hours ago, SouthWallace said: Doesn't solve the other side of a Mazara platoon. Takes the roster spot of a more versatile defensive backup. How exactly does he fit? He doesn’t. If he wants a minor league deal, sure. But he’s not a good fit for this roster at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: He doesn’t. If he wants a minor league deal, sure. But he’s not a good fit for this roster at all. He doesn't fit. And I've been banging that drum all winter. Grandal supposedly vouched for Puig with the FO too, and yet he remains unsigned. Puig the name =|= Puig the player. Teams seem to have recognized this, even if posters here can't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, SouthWallace said: He doesn't fit. And I've been banging that drum all winter. Grandal supposedly vouched for Puig with the FO too, and yet he remains unsigned. Puig the name =|= Puig the player. Teams seem to have recognized this, even if posters here can't. Yah he isn’t good anymore. There is worse insurance to Eloy injuries and Mazara not improving, but Puig makes so little sense as an actual bench bat. If he’s OK coming in on a milb deal, servicing as ST injury depth and then start in AAA, that’s one thing. But handing the guy a guaranteed contract, even if only a couple million, doesn’t make much sense. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yah he isn’t good anymore. There is worse insurance to Eloy injuries and Mazara not improving, but Puig makes so little sense as an actual bench bat. If he’s OK coming in on a milb deal, servicing as ST injury depth and then start in AAA, that’s one thing. But handing the guy a guaranteed contract, even if only a couple million, doesn’t make much sense. He doesn't fit is an okay argument -- I guess. He doesn't fit because we're rolling the dice on a Mazara revival and you want to fully test that out over 500+ AB -- fine then he doesn't fit. He doesn't fit because his splits favor the same side as Mazara? Fine. But he doesn't fit because he's somehow worse than Mazara? Not sure about that. I'd take Puig over Mazara. Hell who are we rolling out as our 4OF and at what cost? Leury? Engel? He's not good anymore? MiLB deal?!!! ST injury depth?!!! And how did you come up with that? Once he suited up with Cleveland he hit .297 wtih a .377 OBP, .800 OPS. He stole 20 bags on the year.. hit what, 25 dingers? And that's MiLB to you? just not sure how that doesn't equal a $2mm contract in your book. I mean we signed Jon Jay last year to a $4mm deal ... people have been in favor of several million to Yolmer to play backup ... we're paying Leury $3.25mm to be a nobody UTIL. how Puig isn't an upgrade to Engel or some other 4OF is bananas to me. How we can be making such a dismissive argument of Puig at ... 1 year and 4mm contract to be our 4OF compared to what ..... Engel, Leury, etc? Come on ... this is a guy who has been to an all star game, finished top 20 in MVP voting twice, really doesn't strikeout all that much ... has a career .350OBP, .823 OPS, can steal bags, has a nice arm in the OF ... but meanwhile we're paying Leury $3.25mm this year ... we don't have $3.25mm for Puig, but Leury is okay... sure. SMH. Leury stats .256/.292/.649OPS, 23 CAREER home runs ... This is such a Sox mentality it hurts. I can't wait to rid this team of Engel, Leury, Yolmer types. They are all replaceable and nobodies in the grand scheme. Fine people i'm sure ... but just take a step back ... let's say right now we didn't roster any of Leury/Engel/Puig and all were free agents. You can have Engel at 1 year and $600k, Leury at 1 year and $3.25mm and Puig at 1yr and $4mm. What are you taking? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, BrianAnderson said: I love how easy it is to cast stones. None of us know Puig personally but a lot of us are acting like we know how he acts in a closed clubhouse for a 180 games (ST included). I have a feeling if he signed here that he would be an instant fan favorite. My personal opinion though. I'm all for it. Keep the game fun. I really don't want to get into this. Any tiny bit of research on the guy reveals a lot of negatives surrounding him throughout his career. A bar brawl. ignoring coaches, ignoring defensive positioning, ripping up the defensive positioning card on the field, admitting he didn't work hard because he already had a contract. alienating team mates,running wild ignoring coaches on the bases, overthrowing cutoff men to show off his arm, arrested for driving110 MPH with his mother and 2 other passengers in the car, habitual tardiness, scuffles with team mates, Don Mattingly, his ex manager ,won't even talk about Puig. Mattingly made a lot of sarcastic comments on Puig faking injuries. I love how easy it is to cast stones too because there are soooo many articles everywhere about the guy. SO many in fact I probably missed a lot of what I could list. Lots of this came from his days with the Dodgers and for sure he was very immature. But even immaturity doesn't explain away driving 110 MPH with your mom in the car. That's just moronic. Has he grown up some. Yes , No one could be as dumb and immature as he was continuously when he was younger. Maybe he knows how to manipulate the media better now and when to keep his mouth shut and how to say wonderful things about the team, the town and the fans. Maybe it's the truth.. All this crap about fun and swag is sticking your heads in the sand for the sake of your own entertainment. He got 2 suspensions for on field incidents with the Reds in 2019. A rising team like the Sox already rubs the old guard the wrong way. Do they really need a lightning rod like Puig to make things worse ? Do they really need to be one of those teams getting in on field brawls for your entertainment ? Once in a while those brawls result in injuries. How fun would that be ? AJ Pierzynski was and probably still is a jerk . Unlike Puig I can't recall anyone questioning AJ's dedication and work ethic . But like Puig he was also a hated guy by the opponents and not well liked in the clubhouse. That's the difference between them. Puig is a guy who earlier in his career skated by on his talent alone and now is realizing that talent is going away with age and to continue drawing easy money he needs to work harder , kiss ass in the media, and now that that talent is waning is not wanted by anyone anymore because the talent does not overwhelm the headaches anymore or even the ghosts of perceived headaches. Edited February 10, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Dude hit .297 with a .357 OBP against lefties last season. His overall career is just alright against lefties but I would take those 2019 numbers in a platoon all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I can see what camp your in. I'm not here to rebuttal your stance as its not going to change your mind. Long live AJ Pierzynski and all the guys breaking rules. It's a game - it's entertainment ... and I'm here for it. Also not sure why 110mph in a 70mph zone is mind blowing to you. He was a 22 year old kid. I'm sure you've only gone the speed limit in your life. Hell i'll accidentally hit 90mph not paying attention on 55 when there's no traffic -- and that's in a shitty V6. Lighten up a bit. It's baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 There is a ton of conjecture And projection in this thread based on very little. His clubhouse cancer stories are pretty interesting given that they went to the playoffs and World Series every season he played with the Dodgers as well as finishing in first place. So if he was a disruptor he certainly didn't disrupt as many teams as I'm told he did. he is a replacement level player. The Sox aren't looking to Make him the starter and the face of the organization if he signs, he plays when Mazara doesn't or if another OF needs a day off. I don't think it would be much more than a prove it deal, which should easily be dumped if the guy actually causes all these problems. and no, I don't care that his agent fired him or that he publicly feuded with Mattingly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, BrianAnderson said: I can see what camp your in. I'm not here to rebuttal your stance as its not going to change your mind. Long live AJ Pierzynski and all the guys breaking rules. It's a game - it's entertainment ... and I'm here for it. Also not sure why 110mph in a 70mph zone is mind blowing to you. He was a 22 year old kid. I'm sure you've only gone the speed limit in your life. Hell i'll accidentally hit 90mph not paying attention on 55 when there's no traffic -- and that's in a shitty V6. Lighten up a bit. It's baseball. Why do you leave out the part that his mom and 2 other passengers were in the car. Yea everyone has driven 100 per hour in their youth but how many did it with their mom and others in the car ? I can see what camp you are in too and you won't change your mind. I at least entertained the thought that he has matured somewhat while all you focus on is being entertained, Baseball like any job requires cooperation ,dedication and hard work for continual high paying employment. Unlike many other jobs you can carry a certain amount of baggage and still make millions . When the baggage outweighs the talent your job opportunities lessen. This is the dilemma for any team who wants to hire him . Sweeping past transgressions under the rug with thoughts of being entertained and his recent stats is just irresponsible to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I drove 85-90 mph with my wife and kids on the way to South Carolina a few summers ago when I was driving in Indiana, so I guess I should turn myself in and think about all that time in lockup I have coming to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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