KW says "no Puig"

[Two-Gun Pete]

Hypothetically, if the Sox have an offer to Puig, why would he take it?

I think he'd take it because he knows that he's flat-out a better player than Mazara. And, that he would definitely take Mazara's job away from him in a matter of weeks.

Looking at their numbers side-by-side, this is without question. The more glaring gap between the two is that Puig has been positive on DRS in most seasons, while Mazara has never been positive on DRS.

When your CF is a rookie, & you've already committed LF to a butcher, it behooves the SOX to have a cromulent glove in RF. That way, it can help to ease Robert's transition into MLB, from the defensive side of his game.

 

I don't know if the Sox have made an offer, nor do I know if Puig has any interest in coming here. But, I'd rather bet on Puig maturing as a person than bet on Mazara's shitty fielding and Engel-ish 59 wrc+ v. LHP.

(Yeah, I know, speeding is a more horrific crime than genocide for some here.)

Edited February 12, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete

[he gone.]

haha the speeding thing makes me laugh on this thread. i hadn't clicked this thread in a few days and almost got trapped into responding to some of the hypocrisy but i'll stick to Puig.

Another thing to consider is the cheap Indians - if we sign Puig we also block them from the Tribe picking him up cheap too. In the grand scheme of things I know hes not THAT much of a game changer.. but I'd guess the odds on favorites for Puig is CLE. I'd much rather see him on teh Sox than play against him all year.  

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, BrianAnderson said:

haha the speeding thing makes me laugh on this thread. i hadn't clicked this thread in a few days and almost got trapped into responding to some of the hypocrisy but i'll stick to Puig.

Another thing to consider is the cheap Indians - if we sign Puig we also block them from the Tribe picking him up cheap too. In the grand scheme of things I know hes not THAT much of a game changer.. but I'd guess the odds on favorites for Puig is CLE. I'd much rather see him on teh Sox than play against him all year.  

I don't think so.

https://www.si.com/mlb/indians/opinion/puig-would-rub-any-manager-the-wrong-way-not-just-francona

[Jerksticks]

Can’t wait for whatever day the idea of bringing Puig here is thrown overboard. 

[he gone.]

4 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

I don't think so.

https://www.si.com/mlb/indians/opinion/puig-would-rub-any-manager-the-wrong-way-not-just-francona

That article is a lot of conjecture - it's like most articles online nowadays. Words for the sake of words. The article doesn't even say what the vice president of public affairs said about Puig and then follows that up with they'd be interested in him on a one year deal. The rest of the article is the normal rah rah about how Puig is not a good teammate. 

 

Puig is definitely not the brightest bulb - but things like him saying he wasn't trying as hard because he was under contract for a few more years? I mean .... like it or not ... there's likely a good number of players who have done or thought the same -- the only difference is they have the brain to not say it out loud and to the media... I really don't think Puig is likely a bad person - just immature. He's got his red flags - but those are priced in ... he'd be getting a 2-3 year deal at 8-10mm a year if he didn't come wtih the baggage. 

[chitownsportsfan]

7 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

That article is a lot of conjecture - it's like most articles online nowadays. Words for the sake of words. The article doesn't even say what the vice president of public affairs said about Puig and then follows that up with they'd be interested in him on a one year deal. The rest of the article is the normal rah rah about how Puig is not a good teammate. 

 

Puig is definitely not the brightest bulb - but things like him saying he wasn't trying as hard because he was under contract for a few more years? I mean .... like it or not ... there's likely a good number of players who have done or thought the same -- the only difference is they have the brain to not say it out loud and to the media... I really don't think Puig is likely a bad person - just immature. He's got his red flags - but those are priced in ... he'd be getting a 2-3 year deal at 8-10mm a year if he didn't come wtih the baggage. 

I don't think he's a bad person but he's a HORRIBLE team mate.  This is a guy that shredded up the defensive positioning cards and cost his team in the playoffs because he wasn't aligned properly which led to his pitcher absolutely throwing him under the bus -- as deserved.

No, stay the hell away from this guy.  His actions have legit negative consequences in games.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Hypothetically, if the Sox have an offer to Puig, why would he take it?

I think he'd take it because he knows that he's flat-out a better player than Mazara. And, that he would definitely take Mazara's job away from him in a matter of weeks.

Looking at their numbers side-by-side, this is without question. The more glaring gap between the two is that Puig has been positive on DRS in most seasons, while Mazara has never been positive on DRS.

When your CF is a rookie, & you've already committed LF to a butcher, it behooves the SOX to have a cromulent glove in RF. That way, it can help to ease Robert's transition into MLB, from the defensive side of his game.

 

I don't know if the Sox have made an offer, nor do I know if Puig has any interest in coming here. But, I'd rather bet on Puig maturing as a person than bet on Mazara's shitty fielding and Engel-ish 59 wrc+ v. LHP.

(Yeah, I know, speeding is a more horrific crime than genocide for some here.)

 I wasn't taking a moral stance on his misadventures. I was saying there are too many  misadventures to think he would be a model citizen on the Sox so I prefer not to have him.

As long as baseball continues to allow him to pursue a contract saying what he has done compared to others is totally missing the point. It was others who brought up that driving 110 mph with others in the car wasn't so bad. Again the severity of the offense never was the point but yet I'm the troll or idiot. How can the point repeatedly keep being missed ?

I certainly was drawn into it when I probably just should have said I'm not judging the crime I'm only thinking he has too many incidents to hire him. Talent often wins out over flakiness or being a disruptive personality so you would do it if you were his boss. I wouldn't.

He hasn't done anything heinous. He's just doesn't seem to comprehend that he is not his own boss when there is a hierarchy of those who chose to pay you.

[he gone.]

19 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I don't think he's a bad person but he's a HORRIBLE team mate.  This is a guy that shredded up the defensive positioning cards and cost his team in the playoffs because he wasn't aligned properly which led to his pitcher absolutely throwing him under the bus -- as deserved.

No, stay the hell away from this guy.  His actions have legit negative consequences in games.

To be fair there's always a villain and once you're the villain it's a tough title to shed. We act like we watched 162 games of him for 6 years ... the fact is we haven't. I think sometimes as fans we act like some of these issues are the end of the world. We like to hear the stories from Grandal about how he's at the ballpark 10-12 hours a day and how he can't stand to lose and each loss eats at him. We love a good soundbite. At the end of the day though - talent wins. And winning brings a team together. Puig is talented and certainly deserving of a roll of the dice at $3-6mm. Hell give him a $2mm deal with a ton of incentives for all i care. 

Also if a guy like Grandal who spends 12 hours at the ballpark a day & gets that pissed at losing says Puig is okay and gave his blessing? Then it really can be that bad. 

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, BrianAnderson said:

To be fair there's always a villain and once you're the villain it's a tough title to shed. We act like we watched 162 games of him for 6 years ... the fact is we haven't. I think sometimes as fans we act like some of these issues are the end of the world. We like to hear the stories from Grandal about how he's at the ballpark 10-12 hours a day and how he can't stand to lose and each loss eats at him. We love a good soundbite. At the end of the day though - talent wins. And winning brings a team together. Puig is talented and certainly deserving of a roll of the dice at $3-6mm. Hell give him a $2mm deal with a ton of incentives for all i care. 

Also if a guy like Grandal who spends 12 hours at the ballpark a day & gets that pissed at losing says Puig is okay and gave his blessing? Then it really can be that bad. 

That's fair and if it was make or break year (say like 2024) for one more run at a title I'd say get it done.  But it's a needless risk in 2020.

[he gone.]

I almost have the opposite mindset ... if it was for 2024 I'd say no - but 2020 is kind of the year that maybe we find a diamond in the rough. Both Puig and Mazara are extremely talented. You aren't rated a Top 20 prospect and hit HR balls 500 FT like Mazara without talent. And likewise you don't finish top 20 in MVP voting twice without talent. For the price we'd get both at I think it's worth the risk. Plus more than ever Puig knows his back is against the wall. A zebra doesn't change his stripes - so the gambling odds would be that it doesn't work out -- but hell, who cares this year. Maybe he behaves and has a monster year. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 I wasn't taking a moral stance on his misadventures. I was saying there are too many  misadventures to think he would be a model citizen on the Sox so I prefer not to have him.

As long as baseball continues to allow him to pursue a contract saying what he has done compared to others is totally missing the point. It was others who brought up that driving 110 mph with others in the car wasn't so bad. Again the severity of the offense never was the point but yet I'm the troll or idiot. How can the point repeatedly keep being missed ?

Hey, I'm mostly kidding with you. It's just baseball.

That said, you spent a couple hours, and several pages of this thread to go over the speeding issue. [Seriously, look back at your posts from the other day.] You also didn't cite any links, and chose incidents from several years ago.

 

I understand those who complain about the man's past. But, I believe men have the ability to grow and to learn from their past, which is why I asked Puig's critics to cite something from the past ~6-12 months, with a link. At the end of the day, Puig is just flat-out a better player than Mazara. But it won't matter, because Mazara's here now. For better or worse, he'll probably fall on his face this year because he's about as mobile as a drunk Paul Konerko.

[he gone.]

But it won't matter, because Mazara's here now. For better or worse, he'll probably fall on his face this year because he's about as mobile as a drunk Paul Konerko."

 

I mean, that's the real truth. Puig isn't happening. I thought he might earlier in the off season, but the Sox have made enough comments that basically confirm that he'll be our RF. I still think the man has significant talent, however my issue is that it's a very Sox move. It always seems like the Sox are stuck in 2003 mode or something while much of the rest of the MLB is adjusting. Like the Rays are out there with Kiemeirer (butchered the spelling) and Margot in the OF with such plus defenders (not to mention Meadows). Any ball hit to the OF is going to be caught. 

 

Meanwhile we're trotting out Eloy AND Mazara. And don't get me wrong, you have to sacrifice somewhere. Not everybody is Trout. So you're going to have people like Eloy who are an offensive monster and meh in the field, but my problem with Mazara stems from the fit. Where's the fit short OR long term? So let's say all of a sudden he does breakout ... he hits 35HR, drives in 100, etc. Is that really a long term solution on a championship team ... to have Robert act like Superman while Eloy and Mazara man the corners? With Vaughn and the extension to Abreu he can't really shift to the DH. 

 

When someone makes a prediction thread for the year I'll go in more detail, but this team's big issue is that it's a station to station team (young inconsistent pitching will be the other issue). But this is going to be AJ, Konerko, Thome type of baseball which can be frustrating (and fun). There are going to be innings where EE, Abreu, Eloy all single back to back to back and then we strikeout and ground into a DP and get nothing out of 3 hits. Mazara, Grandal can be added to that list. We can have 5 guys in a row who can't run. Thank god we balance it a bit out with Robert and Madrigal being added. (also Moncada and Anderson). But ideally to me our RF is more like George Springer. That type of lineup - station to station and somewhat all or nothing hitters can win you baseball games in stretches, but it also isn't conducive to winning consistently which i think is going to be the biggest problem this year. Winning consistently. We'll see flashes but not consistency.  

So that's my issue with Mazara.. and also why i think Puig is a better fit on this team. I'd gladly dump Mazara to a bench role in favor of Puig, because even though neither are likely to work out, at least you can squint and see how Puig could be part of the longer term solution for the Sox 

[chitown87]

Not sure I agree that this is going to be a station to station team.

Abreu and EE, sure, but Eloy is more athletic on the basepaths than you give him credit for. And they're going to be surrounded with the likes of Moncada, Robert, Anderson, Madrigal, etc.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

16 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Hey, I'm mostly kidding with you. It's just baseball.

That said, you spent a couple hours, and several pages of this thread to go over the speeding issue. [Seriously, look back at your posts from the other day.] You also didn't cite any links, and chose incidents from several years ago.

 

I understand those who complain about the man's past. But, I believe men have the ability to grow and to learn from their past, which is why I asked Puig's critics to cite something from the past ~6-12 months, with a link. At the end of the day, Puig is just flat-out a better player than Mazara. But it won't matter, because Mazara's here now. For better or worse, he'll probably fall on his face this year because he's about as mobile as a drunk Paul Konerko.

 

This article is from 4/2019 and is very fair about Puig's days with the Dodgers. Near the end of it , it says Puig still thinks he knew the league well enough to not use defensive positioning cards  when he got to Cincinnati.

You do know he was suspended twice in 2019 right ?

Puig was involved in bench-clearing brawls in each of two Reds losses to the Pittsburgh Pirates. The first one in the top of the fourth inning of a 7–5 defeat at PNC Park on April 7, 2019 resulted in an ejection and a two-game suspension for extending hostilities.^[58][59] He reenacted his actions just under four months later on July 30 in the top of the ninth of an 11–4 loss at Great American Ball Park, minutes after news broke that he was going to be traded to the Cleveland Indians.^[60]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasiel_Puig

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/la-sp-yasiel-puig-dodgers-legacy-reds-20190414-story.html It's a long article with quotes from temmates

Other links to various suspensions over the years.

https://www.mlb.com/news/chris-archer-yasiel-puig-suspended

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/dodgers-yasiel-puig-suspended-fined-obscene-gesture-indians-fans

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/la-sp-dodgers-puig-suspend-20180815-story.html

For older stuff there's also the Molly Knight Book : The Best Team Money Can Buy. She's done plenty of interviews on the book and Puig so here's one https://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles/dodger-report/post/_/id/15540/a-qa-with-author-molly-knight

[ron883]

I thought Puig was going 100 mph. Now it's suddenly 110 mph?

[pcq]

After 47 wins the Tigs should give Puig a short-term OF home . The speeding story needs to conclude.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

37 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I thought Puig was going 100 mph. Now it's suddenly 110 mph?

You'd think a smart guy like you could find the facts pretty easily but perhaps I give you too much credit and you are just doing your troll dance again.

[he gone.]

I forget that mute doesn't work when quoting is used. doh!

Enough with the speeding thing. Good lord. Focus on baseball. 

 

[he gone.]

also the intel guy on twitter said puig is going to the braves. I hope he is. It would be perfect. It would close this thread ... and the arenado one would EXPLODE hahah

[Bad Hombre]

4 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

also the intel guy on twitter said puig is going to the braves. I hope he is. It would be perfect. It would close this thread ... and the arenado one would EXPLODE hahah

LOL this troll needs to do better research. Braves already have a plethora of outfielders with Waters & Pache on their way too. Puig would make no sense for them.  

[he gone.]

also kris bryant is going to the indians and lindor to the cubs. Because that would clear salary for the indians somehow? the more he tweets the crazier he looks. 

[Kyyle23]

MLB Intel should be treated as a parody account like Not Rick Hahn and Not Bruce Levine.  The end

[Moan4Yoan]

Pillar just got $4 million from the Red Sox.  He can play CF but it makes me think Puig should be able to nab a contract worth $5 to $10 million from some team.

[Orlando]

Astros should sign Puig. The are going to break the record for fights anyway. Might as well have him there to protect the stars.

[Two-Gun Pete]

8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

This article is from 4/2019 and is very fair about Puig's days with the Dodgers. Near the end of it , it says Puig still thinks he knew the league well enough to not use defensive positioning cards  when he got to Cincinnati.

You do know he was suspended twice in 2019 right ?

Puig was involved in bench-clearing brawls in each of two Reds losses to the Pittsburgh Pirates. The first one in the top of the fourth inning of a 7–5 defeat at PNC Park on April 7, 2019 resulted in an ejection and a two-game suspension for extending hostilities.^[58][59] He reenacted his actions just under four months later on July 30 in the top of the ninth of an 11–4 loss at Great American Ball Park, minutes after news broke that he was going to be traded to the Cleveland Indians.^[60]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasiel_Puig

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/la-sp-yasiel-puig-dodgers-legacy-reds-20190414-story.html It's a long article with quotes from temmates

Other links to various suspensions over the years.

https://www.mlb.com/news/chris-archer-yasiel-puig-suspended

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/dodgers-yasiel-puig-suspended-fined-obscene-gesture-indians-fans

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/la-sp-dodgers-puig-suspend-20180815-story.html

For older stuff there's also the Molly Knight Book : The Best Team Money Can Buy. She's done plenty of interviews on the book and Puig so here's one https://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles/dodger-report/post/_/id/15540/a-qa-with-author-molly-knight

OK, you clearly spent a lot of time on this post, because this issue means a lot to you. But, in looking at the list of things you cited, ALL of them occurred years ago, not from the past ~6-12 months timeframe that I specified...

 

...Except for the two fights Puig got into with the NL Central's version of KC. After all, if Puig got into 2 fights with shittsburg, and TA got into fights with KC, shouldn't TA also be DFA'ed as well? [That is, if you're gonna hold a strong moral line on this, right?]

I mean, SOMEONE'S gotta be the arbiter of the "unwritten rules" in the NLC, just as KC are the arbiter of the "unwritten rules" in the ALC, and I guess that makes you the arbiter of the "unwritten rules" here on Soxtalk.

 

All kidding aside, I think you're a good poster, good SOX fan, and you seem to be a good guy. I think I understand you more, after reading your posts, though. You're NOT a troll, and you're not an idiot. I just think you've just engaged in some quality boomerposting in this thread.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete