KW says "no Puig"

[Two-Gun Pete]

12 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

It always seems like the Sox are stuck in 2003 mode or something while much of the rest of the MLB is adjusting. Like the Rays are out there with Kiemeirer (butchered the spelling) and Margot in the OF with such plus defenders (not to mention Meadows). Any ball hit to the OF is going to be caught. 

 

Meanwhile we're trotting out Eloy AND Mazara. And don't get me wrong, you have to sacrifice somewhere. Not everybody is Trout. So you're going to have people like Eloy who are an offensive monster and meh in the field, but my problem with Mazara stems from the fit. Where's the fit short OR long term? So let's say all of a sudden he does breakout ... he hits 35HR, drives in 100, etc. Is that really a long term solution on a championship team ... to have Robert act like Superman while Eloy and Mazara man the corners? With Vaughn and the extension to Abreu he can't really shift to the DH. 

 

So that's my issue with Mazara.. and also why i think Puig is a better fit on this team. I'd gladly dump Mazara to a bench role in favor of Puig, because even though neither are likely to work out, at least you can squint and see how Puig could be part of the longer term solution for the Sox 

This is the crux of my view as well. With a butcher already committed to in LF, bringing in a statue like Mazara is a problem that can't be bridged easily. Giving Mazara the starting RF role is a mistake, IMO. Adding in a 37 year old Encarnacion effectively "blocks" Mazara from being hidden at DH, and it constipates the 1B/DH depth chart.

 

By contrast, Puig's issues can be bridged by:

1. The "makeable incentives" part of a contract to help keep him in line, [i.e. cash to him and to his charitable foundation if he toes the line],

2. Insuring the contract [i.e. if he steps out of line/is released, Lloyd's of London covers some of the contract],

3. Signing redundancy in the 26 man [i.e. a Corner OF/DH type that can play some corner OF, instead of yet another 1B/DH type like Encarnacion],

4. Trusting that men can evolve and mature [i.e. the issues from when he was 22 won't pop up now that he's 29 & with 3 kids],

5. Trusting that Abreu and Grandal are in fact good leaders that have vouched for who he is NOW,

6. Trusting that Ricky can do what he does best, which is to keep a harmonious and engaged clubhouse, and

7. [EDIT] Trusting/verifying that he's been humbled by the past few years and the lack of suitors this offseason.

 

I'm not sure there are [EDIT] 7 ways to bridge Mazara's 59 wrc+ v. LHP, nor his ineptitude at defense, nor Encarnacion's inevitable date with Father Time.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete

[ron883]

TBH, as much as it pains me to say it, Calisoxfan is a top tier poster and one of the best around. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

OK, you clearly spent a lot of time on this post, because this issue means a lot to you. But, in looking at the list of things you cited, ALL of them occurred years ago, not from the past ~6-12 months timeframe that I specified...

 

...Except for the two fights Puig got into with the NL Central's version of KC. After all, if Puig got into 2 fights with shittsburg, and TA got into fights with KC, shouldn't TA also be DFA'ed as well? [That is, if you're gonna hold a strong moral line on this, right?]

I mean, SOMEONE'S gotta be the arbiter of the "unwritten rules" in the NLC, just as KC are the arbiter of the "unwritten rules" in the ALC, and I guess that makes you the arbiter of the "unwritten rules" here on Soxtalk.

 

All kidding aside, I think you're a good poster, good SOX fan, and you seem to be a good guy. I think I understand you more, after reading your posts, though. You're NOT a troll, and you're not an idiot. I just think you've just engaged in some quality boomerposting in this thread.

I spent time because you asked for stuff in the last 6 -12 months so I gave it to you because no one else did. And don't forget the refusing to use defensive positioning cards again was also in the last 12 months. I gave you extra  just to highlight how many suspensions he's had though I think the one where he gave the finger to Cleveland fans was reduced to community service . I'm not moralizing at all,  Just facts is all I'm doing for anyone who is interested, It's all pretty easy to find and not that time consuming.

No one is going to change their minds but maybe some will use it for educational purposes. As for myself, I like doing research because it helps to have the full picture before making up my mind. There was a time a few years ago maybe before the rebuild that I liked Puig and probably made a few posts on acquiring him when Caulfield was in his heyday as the Puig advocate.

I actually think the Sox are finished sighing anyone to a ML contract, Anything we see probably will be a minor league contract though I'm still hoping for Holt or a long reliever.

[Dick Allen]

 

[caulfield12]

17 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I spent time because you asked for stuff in the last 6 -12 months so I gave it to you because no one else did. And don't forget the refusing to use defensive positioning cards again was also in the last 12 months. I gave you extra  just to highlight how many suspensions he's had though I think the one where he gave the finger to Cleveland fans was reduced to community service . I'm not moralizing at all,  Just facts is all I'm doing for anyone who is interested, It's all pretty easy to find and not that time consuming.

No one is going to change their minds but maybe some will use it for educational purposes. As for myself, I like doing research because it helps to have the full picture before making up my mind. There was a time a few years ago maybe before the rebuild that I liked Puig and probably made a few posts on acquiring him when Caulfield was in his heyday as the Puig advocate.

I actually think the Sox are finished sighing anyone to a ML contract, Anything we see probably will be a minor league contract though I'm still hoping for Holt or a long reliever.

Yeah, I gave up a long time ago.  Had to move on and find other ways to sustain my interest in the game while the White Sox were floundering the past seven years.

At one point this offseason, I did find a bunch of supportive quotes from former and then current teammates with the Reds and Indians, but it’s pretty much a lost cause.

Edited February 14, 2020 by caulfield12

[Moan4Yoan]

I think it’s funny how people are appalled by the idea of signing Puig but are okay with Engel getting at bats in RF against lefties.

Sign Puig for next to nothing, provide starting OF coverage for your corner outfielders, one of which gets injured a lot, and let him platoon with Mazara in the meantime.  If he acts like a dick, cut his ass.

[ptatc]

6 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I think it’s funny how people are appalled by the idea of signing Puig but are okay with Engel getting at bats in RF against lefties.

Sign Puig for next to nothing, provide starting OF coverage for your corner outfielders, one of which gets injured a lot, and let him platoon with Mazara in the meantime.  If he acts like a dick, cut his ass.

For some players there are more important issues than numbers.  The Sox are on the cusp of maybe having a good run with a fairly young team. The FO is smart to to decide if they really want him in their clubhouse. They can cut him but will the damage already have been done. There is a reason he hasn't been signed yet. Most contenders are probably doing the same thing and the others probably dont think it's worth it.

Baseball is a different sport. You are always around the other players. 

[Dick Allen]

If Puig is available for next to nothing, and he really is nowhere near the clubhouse problem he is made out to be, isn’t it astonishing no team has signed him? 
 

I think there is way more to it than people on both sides of the argument want to believe. Maybe he isn’t as bad as many of us believe clubhouse wise, but maybe he is still asking for significant money and a situation where he is pretty much guaranteed every day at bats. Or maybe he is willing to play for next to nothing but is as bad in the clubhouse as many think. There is evidence to suggest playing for a contract isn’t all that big of a deal for him.I postedthe video of him walking back to the dugout after putting a ball in play. Yes, he would have been out anyway, but it is a very bad look considering your reputation, being on your 3rd team in less than a year, and less than a month from free agency. 
 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

29 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If Puig is available for next to nothing, and he really is nowhere near the clubhouse problem he is made out to be, isn’t it astonishing no team has signed him? 
 

I think there is way more to it than people on both sides of the argument want to believe. Maybe he isn’t as bad as many of us believe clubhouse wise, but maybe he is still asking for significant money and a situation where he is pretty much guaranteed every day at bats. Or maybe he is willing to play for next to nothing but is as bad in the clubhouse as many think. There is evidence to suggest playing for a contract isn’t all that big of a deal for him.I postedthe video of him walking back to the dugout after putting a ball in play. Yes, he would have been out anyway, but it is a very bad look considering your reputation, being on your 3rd team in less than a year, and less than a month from free agency. 
 

 

I think it’s somewhere in the middle.  Puig is probably looking for a starting gig with ~$10M guaranteed and teams aren’t willing to meet that price given the clubhouse concerns.  I think if he was willing to accept like $4M or less someone would take a gamble on him.

[Dick Allen]

Also, Puigs 76 wRC+ against LHP  the last 3 years might make Adan Engel not so bad.

I get pu kung him up if it was for next to nothing and you could send him on his way if things don't work out. But I doubt it is that simple.

[Vote4Pedro]

Gomez reporting Puig close to signing w a team. Says Whitesox are one of the teams interested 

[Orlando]

Wonder if the Sox are one of them

[Vote4Pedro]

2 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Wonder if the Sox are one of them

Gomez in that same tweet said the Sox are interested didn’t say whether there is an offer on the table from the Sox tho

[Jose Abreu]

I doubt it's us but it would certainly make up for the lack of quality depth. As things stand, an Eloy or Mazara injury (which are sadly probable) would be pretty brutal, especially if Leury is already covering for an injured IF 

[chitownsportsfan]

13 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I doubt it's us but it would certainly make up for the lack of quality depth. As things stand, an Eloy or Mazara injury (which are sadly probable) would be pretty brutal, especially if Leury is already covering for an injured IF 

I realized earlier today the first guy on deck in case of an injury is Delmonico.  Oof.  This is where the delay in Micker/Basabe/Rutherford (if they ever amount to anything) hurts.

[Orlando]

I refuse to believe the White Sox would go out and spend a bunch to rely on Delmonico and Cheslor Cutbert (or however you spell his name) as the best depth pieces. They have to sign a 2b/RF or start Madrigal in the MLB or they are in trouble.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Orlando

[Chicago White Sox]

27 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

Gomez reporting Puig close to signing w a team. Says Whitesox are one of the teams interested 

Better not let Stone see this tweet!

But seriously, not sure how I’d feel about this, but  we could definitely use a better insurance policy than Palka / Delmonico in the event Eloy or Nomar goes down.

[Bob Sacamano]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Better not let Stone see this tweet!

But seriously, not sure how I’d feel about this, but  we could definitely use a better insurance policy than Palka / Delmonico in the event Eloy or Nomar goes down.

I agree. As long as he knows he'll be a mostly bench/platoon guy and hes cheap enough to where we can cut him if he isn't geling with everyone else and causing trouble, I'm ok with it.

I mean, look how much they wasted last year on Jay and Alonso.

Edited February 19, 2020 by soxfan2014

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, soxfan2014 said:

I agree. As long as he knows he'll be a mostly bench/platoon guy and hes cheap enough to where we can cut him if he isn't geling with everyone else and causing trouble, I'm ok with it. 

Agreed, as long as he’s reasonably cuttable and Abreu has vouched for him I’ll ok with it.

[chitownsportsfan]

7 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I agree. As long as he knows he'll be a mostly bench/platoon guy and hes cheap enough to where we can cut him if he isn't geling with everyone else and causing trouble, I'm ok with it.

I mean, look how much they wasted last year on Jay and Alonso.

I'd prefer not to.

[Moan4Yoan]

36 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I agree. As long as he knows he'll be a mostly bench/platoon guy and hes cheap enough to where we can cut him if he isn't geling with everyone else and causing trouble, I'm ok with it.

I mean, look how much they wasted last year on Jay and Alonso.

34 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Agreed, as long as he’s reasonably cuttable and Abreu has vouched for him I’ll ok with it.

$9 million for Alonso and $4 million for Jay. ?

I agree with both of you about Puig but I think Steve Stone will end up being right and he will sign elsewhere.

If it was up to me, I’d sign Puig and either Gennett or Dozier.  Great lineup and amazing bench.

Posters who are happy with Leury/Mendick/Engel right now will be wishing we added some bench depth once we have an injury to the infield or outfield.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Moan4Yoan

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

$9 million for Alonso and $4 million for Jay. ?

I agree with both of you about Puig but I think Steve Stone will end up being right and he will sign elsewhere.

If it was up to me, I’d sign Puig and Gennett/Dozier.

Gennett would still be a fantastic add, but he would probably a better shot at full playing time.

[Orlando]

Ok guys before he signs, place your bets. Where does Puig end up? I’m going to reluctantly say Padres.

[Moan4Yoan]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Gennett would still be a fantastic add, but he would probably a better shot at full playing time.

Agreed.  I’d still settle for Dozier for some 2B depth but obviously he only plays one position.

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Ok guys before he signs, place your bets. Where does Puig end up? I’m going to reluctantly say Padres.

Mariners