Will There Be a 2020 Season?

[ptatc]

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Then why haven't they opened their books in 50 years of negotiations? It may be true...... but then wouldn't it help the owners in their negotiations? Or are they more concerned about the team values going down the shitter? 

I'd imagine the other 3 sports that have instituted salary caps and percentage of sport related revenue with the players had to open their books to their respective player's unions in order to achieve that goal. 

I dont know the answer to that. Only what Boras said and he is the most anti-owner person out there.

If the players agreed to a salary cap the owners would have to open their books. Until then there is no advantage for them to do it. Why give the opposition any more information than needed? It makes no sense to do that for negotiations. 

[Jack Parkman]

18 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I dont know the answer to that. Only what Boras said and he is the most anti-owner person out there.

If the players agreed to a salary cap the owners would have to open their books. Until then there is no advantage for them to do it. Why give the opposition any more information than needed? It makes no sense to do that for negotiations. 

The owners don't realize that they can't get a salary cap if they don't open their books.....if it truly helps their negotiations they could decide to do it and then basically force the MLBPA to agree to a cap and floor system. 

They could say...we'll show them if you understand that they'll be no deal without a cap and floor. 

If the margins are really that razor thin, then why in the hell wouldn't they? 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Y2Jimmy0]

3 hours ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

Naive question/crackpot theory: what if the owners didn't counter offer and intend to go with Manfred's right to make it a 50-game season expecting the players to refuse (strike) to play? 

The CBA has penalties that prohibit a strike, right? Would that put the owners in a better position to negotiate from strength for next year's CBA? Like, admitting that this season isn't going to happen anyway so they force the players' hand now to make them out to be the bad guys so the owners get more of what they want next year?

They aren't allowed to strike. The owners are definitely dangling this as a possibility. If they don't agree on something, Manfred can theoretically say, "the season will be 50 games. You get prorated salaries. Play or don't". The owners are trying to divide and conquer. 65% of the league makes under $1 million. Those players get way more money in the sliding scale offer than they would playing 50 games. The owners think that the rank and file will convince the MLPBPA to take a deal. I've done my fair share of bashing Tony Clark. It's tough to represent a union made up of haves and have nots though. 

With that being said, there is some optimism. I've heard from people tonight that think 82 games, prorated salaries, deferrals for anyone making $10 million or more ultimately gets done. We're running out of time though. 

[greg775]

7 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Baseball is a sport where if you're playing fewer than a half season(80-82) worth of games, the results become meaningless. 

They have to agree on at least 80 games otherwise the season is a joke. The owners are basically saying "we have to guarantee ourselves a profit in order to operate" That's not how business works. This is probably a temporary situation, and if it becomes permanent they can negotiate it in the next CBA. You want to negotiate now? Open up the CBA. Otherwise, fuck off. 

Most businesses don't close after one year of losses. They're throwing a fucking temper tantrum over one fucking year of losses. They can get off their high horse and go fuck themselves. 

One of your finest posts, Jack. I would agree. 50 games? Cmon. Spice it up if it's just 50 games. So the first 10 games are whoever is best prepared and/or has the easiest schedule. The first 10 games probably entail many, many pitchers combining to work the nine innings, with the starters not ready to go deep in games. Now we got 40 games left. OK, I concede the next 30 should be pretty good baseball. Now we got 10 games left to make the playoffs. I'd think whoever has worked their pitching staffs into the best shape and has the easiest schedule would do well in the final 10. Of course with just 50 games, maybe most of the games or all the games are against divisional foes. I haven't read that yet.

Edited June 4, 2020 by greg775

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

I dont know the answer to that. Only what Boras said and he is the most anti-owner person out there.

If the players agreed to a salary cap the owners would have to open their books. Until then there is no advantage for them to do it. Why give the opposition any more information than needed? It makes no sense to do that for negotiations. 

I generally think Boras is good for baseball......but I'll never understand how he didn't attend Jose Fernandez's funeral nor donate funds for his unborn child, who is probably approaching school age by now. Was a real dick move. I lost a decent chunk of respect for him after that. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[ptatc]

6 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

The owners don't realize that they can't get a salary cap if they don't open their books.....if it truly helps their negotiations they could decide to do it and then basically force the MLBPA to agree to a cap and floor system. 

They could say...we'll show them if you understand that they'll be no deal without a cap and floor. 

If the margins are really that razor thin, then why in the hell wouldn't they? 

Again,  until there is an agreement to explore a salary cap there is no reason to share the books. There is no advantage in negotiations to give the opposition more information than needed. The union obviously knows at least part of it otherwise Boras wouldnt have acknowledged it and commented on it.

[caulfield12]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/will-brazen-cheapness-finally-turn-the-public-against-mlb-team-owners-234748825.html

[Texsox]

Depending on how many teams make the playoffs, fifty games is more than enough to seed the playoffs. The top seeds will be teams that avoid slumps for two months or so. The mid level seeds will be a couple good teams that had a bad stretch and a couple average teams that played above their abilities. If any teams do not make the playoffs, they were poor to average in the beginning. 

All the regular season does is create seeding for the playoffs. It doesn't take 100 games to accomplish that. 

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Depending on how many teams make the playoffs, fifty games is more than enough to seed the playoffs. The top seeds will be teams that avoid slumps for two months or so. The mid level seeds will be a couple good teams that had a bad stretch and a couple average teams that played above their abilities. If any teams do not make the playoffs, they were poor to average in the beginning. 

All the regular season does is create seeding for the playoffs. It doesn't take 100 games to accomplish that. 

Agreed.

[oldsox]

15 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Depending on how many teams make the playoffs, fifty games is more than enough to seed the playoffs. The top seeds will be teams that avoid slumps for two months or so. The mid level seeds will be a couple good teams that had a bad stretch and a couple average teams that played above their abilities. If any teams do not make the playoffs, they were poor to average in the beginning. 

All the regular season does is create seeding for the playoffs. It doesn't take 100 games to accomplish that. 

Except that last year the Nats went 19-31 for first 50 games..

[Texsox]

2 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Except that last year the Nats went 19-31 for first 50 games..

There will be outliers, always. We could expand to a 200 game season and there will be flukes. 

[Texsox]

It seems obvious to me but I should add the longer the season, the fewer teams should make the playoffs. The shorter the season, the more teams should make the playoffs.

[flavum]

10 minutes ago, Texsox said:

It seems obvious to me but I should add the longer the season, the fewer teams should make the playoffs. The shorter the season, the more teams should make the playoffs.

Agree, but only if it’s a one year thing. If they go to 7 in each league, which is too many in a regular 162-game season, I’m afraid they’ll never go back. It’s supposed to be hard to make the playoffs in baseball. It’s one of the things that makes baseball better than any sport. 10 out of 30 is perfect for MLB. 12 out of 32 someday would be fine. 14 out of 30 every year is terrible.

Edited June 4, 2020 by flavum

[Texsox]

5 minutes ago, flavum said:

Agree, but only if it’s a one year thing. If they go to 7 in each league, which is too many in a regular 162-game season, I’m afraid they’ll never go back. It’s supposed to be hard to make the playoffs in baseball. It’s one of the things that makes baseball better than any sport. 10 out of 30 is perfect for MLB. 12 out of 32 someday would be fine. 14 out of 30 every year is terrible.

Exactly. There may be a few things we'll want to keep, like DH for all. 

[southsider2k5]

10 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They aren't allowed to strike. The owners are definitely dangling this as a possibility. If they don't agree on something, Manfred can theoretically say, "the season will be 50 games. You get prorated salaries. Play or don't". The owners are trying to divide and conquer. 65% of the league makes under $1 million. Those players get way more money in the sliding scale offer than they would playing 50 games. The owners think that the rank and file will convince the MLPBPA to take a deal. I've done my fair share of bashing Tony Clark. It's tough to represent a union made up of haves and have nots though. 

With that being said, there is some optimism. I've heard from people tonight that think 82 games, prorated salaries, deferrals for anyone making $10 million or more ultimately gets done. We're running out of time though. 

l think right now they can play the game.  With no sports around, no one really notices this in the grander, non-hardcore fans sense.  Now if Basketball and or Hockey start playing again, and baseball still hasn't figured this out, THEN we will be looking at hell to pay.  We will see who blinks first, but I think the underlying agreement being in place means the owners can hold out a bit longer than the players.

[MiddleCoastBias]

"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." - Tommy Lasorda

Looks like we're going to find out what teams do with those other 54 games. /gn

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." - Tommy Lasorda

Looks like we're going to find out what teams do with those other 54 games. /gn

I've always loved that quote. 

[ptatc]

14 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I've always loved that quote. 

No doubt. And it's TRUE except for very few outliers.

[DoUEvenShift]

2 hours ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." - Tommy Lasorda

Looks like we're going to find out what teams do with those other 54 games. /gn

What did Hawk always say? "You're gonna win 60 and lose 60, it's what you do with the other 42."

[pcq]

2 hours ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." - Tommy Lasorda

Looks like we're going to find out what teams do with those other 54 games. /gn

Don't tell the Tigers that. As long as the players don't kneel I will agree to nuclear fireworks after home runs. 

[SCCWS]

On 6/3/2020 at 3:51 PM, ptatc said:

Most agree that pitchers really need 4 weeks and hitters 3. The longer spring training is for money for the facilities in spring training.

I assume 4 weeks but it seems odd NBA looks like they will use almost 6 weeks of training.  Rumor is hoops starting in mid July and they also have the advantage of no weather issues. 

[Ducksnort]

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-announcers-will-broadcast-road-games-remotely-in-2020-season-per-report/

Basically, announcers will broadcast road games from a remote location and will not travel. Makes sense I guess. Sucks for them. 

I also read in a Traderumors article that MLB is going to let mayors and governors decide whether or not fans are allowed in stadiums. I think most everyone just totally thought fans wouldn't be allowed in at all this year, but I guess the Texas governor has said stadiums can fill to 50% capacity.

[Texsox]

32 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-announcers-will-broadcast-road-games-remotely-in-2020-season-per-report/

Basically, announcers will broadcast road games from a remote location and will not travel. Makes sense I guess. Sucks for them. 

I also read in a Traderumors article that MLB is going to let mayors and governors decide whether or not fans are allowed in stadiums. I think most everyone just totally thought fans wouldn't be allowed in at all this year, but I guess the Texas governor has said stadiums can fill to 50% capacity.

We are allowing most businesses to operate at 50% capacity as of yesterday. So why not stadiums. I'll have to call Kapkomet and meet him for a game

[ptatc]

4 hours ago, SCCWS said:

I assume 4 weeks but it seems odd NBA looks like they will use almost 6 weeks of training.  Rumor is hoops starting in mid July and they also have the advantage of no weather issues. 

NBA needs to be in much better cardiovascular condition than baseball. Those big heavy bodies take longer to get fit (or at least as fit as they are going to be)

[greg775]

5 hours ago, ptatc said:

NBA needs to be in much better cardiovascular condition than baseball. Those big heavy bodies take longer to get fit (or at least as fit as they are going to be)

Man, six weeks of training is a heckuva long time. I know it's just sports but I feel for those guys if they have to practice hard during those six weeks. That's a lot of pounding. I guess I understand. They've had 11 weeks off. In a normal offseason the teams that make the Finals get about 14 weeks off.