Will There Be a 2020 Season?

[Dick Allen]

4 hours ago, ptatc said:

It true that opening the books would help. However, let's deal in reality. It's not going to happen. The union has some information and they arent going to share with the public either. Even if the owners opened the books to the union, the public wouldnt see it.  You can disagree all you want but we'll  never know the actual numbers. So the next best are the estimates and the numbers I gave are logical assumptions for around a 2/3 revenue decrease.

The question is why won’t they open their books if they have nothing to hide and making money owning a baseball team is extremely difficult? It isn’t about the public seeing it.  We know the answer.

[Rowand44]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

The question is why won’t they open their books if they have nothing to hide and making money owning a baseball team is extremely difficult? It isn’t about the public seeing it.  We know the answer.

This.

The owners are just full of shit.  Always have been.  

[ScootsMcGoots]

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The question is why won’t they open their books if they have nothing to hide and making money owning a baseball team is extremely difficult? It isn’t about the public seeing it.  We know the answer.

Even if they opened the books people will say they held back documents and records so I really don't see the point. It will just be an ongoing fingerpointing fight until one side ultimately gets what they want. Fuel to the fire 

Edited June 13, 2020 by ScooterMcGee

[ptatc]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The question is why won’t they open their books if they have nothing to hide and making money owning a baseball team is extremely difficult? It isn’t about the public seeing it.  We know the answer.

It never happens in union negotiations. Never. If the players want to see the books and not just parts. Be open to a salary cap where the numbers truly matter. They gain nothing but opening the books other than trying to appease people who won't believe them anyway.

Edited June 13, 2020 by ptatc

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

Even if they opened the books people will say they held back documents and records so I really don't see the point

Agreed. Most people won't believe it even if they were. The billionaires are always trying to screw everyone. Boras was satisfied with the numbers to make his statements but people won't believe the guy who makes his money negotiating against the owners.

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It never happens in union negotiations. Never. If the players want to see the books and not just parts. Be open to a salary cap where the numbers truly matter. They gain nothing but opening the books other than trying to appease people who won't believe them anyway.

There is a de facto salary cap. In fact, it is one thing the union knows they got played.They gain nothing because crying poor has worked for years. The media has bought it, and held their water, yet they somehow come up with the coin to pay a James Shields $20 million a year. 

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, ptatc said:

I was referring to the players not negotiating in good faith because they wont change the agreement. I dont know if you've ever been part of union negotiations but the owners act like any other management group. Your comment is what every union steward and negotiator says. Are reading about the nurses strike in Joliet. Same rhetoric from both sides. 

Hospital we dont have the money to sustain this

Nurses we arent getting therapy and benefits we deserve

Hospital we are losing money and need to change

Nurses you arent bargaining we call for a strike vote

Vote called and approved by 90%

Hospital we cant afford to go on like this 

 

 

The only difference with MLB is its public and everyone is passionate about it. Who cares about a hospital in joliet.

How much do you cost each franchise to lose in value if you don’t play this year?

How many more corporate/suite ticket sales get cut from corporate budgets permanently?

Same thing with advertising.

The financial benefits of playing this season (especially if football can’t go on with crowds) are much greater for the game long-term than missing this year entirely and then looking at another stoppage over the CBA.  Plus, the risks to owners permanently devaluing those assets (their own teams) of not playing are simply too high.  How much more divisive will the future CBA negotiations be, and just the general “aura” of dread around perhaps the most perpetually optimistic (well, there’s always next year) Opening Day sport in the world??

Cue James Earl Jones speech in Field of Dreams.

I consider myself a pretty big baseball fan and haven’t even cared that much about the draft this year.  Lots of more casual fans are at risk of being lost, and if you alienate the 40-70 year olds, you start to lose their kids and grandchildren as well.  Real life issues like Covid and job losses/the future are increasingly important to everyone.  The game has to evolve, just like the movie industry/cinemas, cruise ships and airlines, restaurants, etc.  Without a continuous drive to innovate and adapt to an increasingly changing world, baseball risks being left behind, the Blockbuster or AOL of major sports.

Edited June 13, 2020 by caulfield12

[DirtySox]

 

[DirtySox]

 

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

There is a de facto salary cap. In fact, it is one thing the union knows they got played.They gain nothing because crying poor has worked for years. The media has bought it, and held their water, yet they somehow come up with the coin to pay a James Shields $20 million a year. 

There isnt a salary  cap that requires the exact percentage of revenues such as the NBA or NHL. How can you begrudge paying a player whatever he can get. 

[DirtySox]

 

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

 

At least they are agreeing to play, that's all that matters.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, DirtySox said:

 

Nice move to put the focus on the owners. Good set up for the CBA negotiations.

[ScootsMcGoots]

12 minutes ago, ptatc said:

At least they are agreeing to play, that's all that matters.

I was initially concerned that some players will feel "forced" to play with the league unilaterally mandating beginning of the season. I hope Clark's statement of "players  want to play, it's who we are and what we do" speaks for at the very least the vast majority of players, and they play with the same heart and passion that they always do. Hopefully bitterness doesn't take over the players, who are the heart and soul of the game.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

16 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

 

That's freakin awesome.  The owners have been keeping baseball hostage for long enough. Shit or get off the pot ya old bastards.  

[Sarava]

Good tactic by the players I think. The owners will look bad if they order a 48 or 50 game schedule. Hopefully they dont do that.

[Y2Jimmy0]

This is much worse for the White Sox though. They really needed expanded playoffs. 

[ptatc]

17 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This is much worse for the White Sox though. They really needed expanded playoffs. 

True. I forgot about that part.

[ptatc]

19 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Good tactic by the players I think. The owners will look bad if they order a 48 or 50 game schedule. Hopefully they dont do that.

It will be intersting to see how the owners react. Do they stick to the 54 or so games and hold the line on that's where or break even is. Or do they add more games and say see the players wouldnt compromise but for the good of the game we will and take a loss. Next season they can offer no big free agent deals and claim too many teams lost money.

[ScootsMcGoots]

23 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This is much worse for the White Sox though. They really needed expanded playoffs. 

But can the league still enact expanded playoffs if they want?

[Harold's Leg Lift]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It will be intersting to see how the owners react. Do they stick to the 54 or so games and hold the line on that's where or break even is. Or do they add more games and say see the players wouldnt compromise but for the good of the game we will and take a loss. Next season they can offer no big free agent deals and claim too many teams lost money.

That was going to happen regardless.

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

That was going to happen regardless.

Maybe but now they have a negotiating specifically directed at the union for not bargaining.  If they players give in some the players could come back and say that we gave what you wanted. The rhetoric for the next CBA will be fun to watch.

[ptatc]

10 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

But can the league still enact expanded playoffs if they want?

I dont think so as it wasnt part of the agreement.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

 

That's Lawyer speak for Go F@$$ Yourself. 

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

But can the league still enact expanded playoffs if they want?

No. New schedule changes must be negotiated.