Will There Be a 2020 Season?

[Kyyle23]

8 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

“The reality is we weren’t going to play more than 60 games no matter how the negotiations with the players went,” said Manfred.

Tell us something we didn't know ya giant turd.  

Doesn't this admission hurt them in any grievance regarding bad faith negotiations?

[Kyyle23]

On 6/26/2020 at 2:49 PM, oldsox said:

If we can have an abbreviated MLB season, why can't the minors do the same?  Expand rosters to 30-35, Every MLB team has 2 minor league teams, easy.

I think the complications of testing in the minors is the problem and none of them want to spend that extra money to do it.  

[ptatc]

7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Doesn't this admission hurt them in any grievance regarding bad faith negotiations?

No, because the March agreement was based on the renegotiation if the season was "economically feasible " depending on the fans in the seats. They stuck to this number of games based on the full prorated pay. This comment solidifies the fact that the owners determined this was the only way to make it economically feasible. 

Regardless if anyone wants to believe what was economically feasible, for negotiations they stuck to the same number the whole time.

Edited July 2, 2020 by ptatc

[Harold's Leg Lift]

15 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Doesn't this admission hurt them in any grievance regarding bad faith negotiations?

It sure does.  He's admitting the early offers were never intended to reach an agreement which is a violation of the best efforts to play as many games as possible provision.  The big dope admitted they were just running out the clock to get to the number they wanted.  

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It sure does.  He's admitting the early offers were never intended to reach an agreement which is a violation of the best efforts to play as many games as possible provision.  The big dope admitted they were just running out the clock to get to the number they wanted.  

I disagree. The owners made numerous proposals for more games but at a % of the salary that would equal about 55-58 games. The fact that they were consistent at the number of game that would make the season viable economically gives their position credence.

Once the players absolutely refused to play for less than the full prorated pay, that's when the number of games was set.

Edited July 2, 2020 by ptatc

[Y2Jimmy0]

On 6/26/2020 at 2:49 PM, oldsox said:

If we can have an abbreviated MLB season, why can't the minors do the same?  Expand rosters to 30-35, Every MLB team has 2 minor league teams, easy.

 

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

I think the complications of testing in the minors is the problem and none of them want to spend that extra money to do it.  

It's impossible. MLB can play because they will get paid their salaries due to television revenue. You can't have minor league baseball without fans. The operation itself can't pay anyone without stadium revenue. The hope was that an extended fall league in Arizona would occur. You could have a team full of prospects for each organization. These ideas were focused on Arizona and Florida however and doing anything in those states appears to be unlikely at the moment 

[Jose Abreu]

3 hours ago, ptatc said:

No, because the March agreement was based on the renegotiation if the season was "economically feasible " depending on the fans in the seats. They stuck to this number of games based on the full prorated pay. This comment solidifies the fact that the owners determined this was the only way to make it economically feasible. 

Regardless if anyone wants to believe what was economically feasible, for negotiations they stuck to the same number the whole time.

I'm not sure how economic feasibility can be determined when the economic data is purposely veiled from one side of the negotiation. Between that and Manfred's slip, I think it should be obvious why the players fought so hard to keep their right to file a grievance.

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I'm not sure how economic feasibility can be determined when the economic data is purposely veiled from one side of the negotiation. Between that and Manfred's slip, I think it should be obvious why the players fought so hard to keep their right to file a grievance.

Thats possible. However, I dont think that was a slip by Manfred. He was emphasizing the fact that 60 was the number of games the owners needed to make the season viable.

The grievances should be interesting as will the next CBA discussions. I will be surprised if there isn't a work stoppage from one side or the other. Owners against Boras always plays in public and gets nasty.

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, ptatc said:

I disagree. The owners made numerous proposals for more games but at a % of the salary that would equal about 55-58 games. The fact that they were consistent at the number of game that would make the season viable economically gives their position credence.

Once the players absolutely refused to play for less than the full prorated pay, that's when the number of games was set.

And yet, when the players offered the owners expanded playoffs to increase TV revenue in exchange for more games...the owners said no. Kinda funny how that worked out.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Jorge Mateo traded for a bag of chips to the Padres.  That's a fun move for them.  Could be nothing, but I'd have taken a flier as a super sub-insane speed kinda guy. Especially with 30 man rosters this year.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[southsider2k5]

5 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Doesn't this admission hurt them in any grievance regarding bad faith negotiations?

Sure sounds like it to me.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Now Manfred runs to MLB mouthpiece Bob Nightengale to try and walk his dumbass statement back.  He really is a freakin idiot.  

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

And yet, when the players offered the owners expanded playoffs to increase TV revenue in exchange for more games...the owners said no. Kinda funny how that worked out.

They only offered it when they wanted more games at the full prorated rate and no guarantee  for playoffs.  Funny how the players wanted to reap all guaranteed money but accept no risk for non-guaranteed money.

Anyway that is not pertinamt to the current discussion on if Manfred comment will hurt or help the players chance at a grievance 

[Chicago White Sox]

18 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Jorge Mateo traded for a bag of chips to the Padres.  That's a fun move for them.  Could be nothing, but I'd have taken a flier as a super sub-insane speed kinda guy. Especially with 30 man rosters this year.

30 man rosters only have last two weeks.

[spiderman]

On 6/26/2020 at 4:25 PM, SonofaRoache said:

I keep seeing hold Magical and Kopech down for service time. But what are we holding them down to do? I think we would be the first team to lose a grievance for service time manipulation if we did this. I can see it now. "Madrigal needed the extra week of light practice to prepare for the bigs. He was able to improve his deficiencies by just practicing" "Kopech really needed to throw leisurely in a controlled setting for 4 weeks to be ready to pitch in the bigs." 

If Kopech is delayed in coming to camp, this could allow the White Sox to give him extra time to build up his arm strength on the side. 

[spiderman]

On 7/2/2020 at 8:55 AM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

“The reality is we weren’t going to play more than 60 games no matter how the negotiations with the players went,” said Manfred.

Tell us something we didn't know ya giant turd.  

Here is the full quote. Seems clear that he is referring to the virus and the ability to play more than 60 games.

“The reality is we weren’t going to play more than 60 games no matter how the negotiations with the players went, or any other factor,” Manfred told Patrick. “I think this is the one thing we come back to every single day: we’re trying to manage something that has proven to be unpredictable and unmanageable. I know it hasn’t looked particularly pretty in spots, but having said that, if we can pull off this 60-game season, I think it was the best we were going to do for our fans given the course of the virus.

“It’s the calendar. We’re playing 60 games in 63 days right now. I don’t see, given the reality of the health situation over the past few weeks, how we were going to get going any faster than the calendar we’re on right now. No matter what the state of those negotiations were.”

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, spiderman said:

If Kopech is delayed in coming to camp, this could allow the White Sox to give him extra time to build up his arm strength on the side. 

Hopefully that's what he's been doing since his 1 and only appearance in a ST game. But he now appears to have a crisis of some sort. No details yet. It's in another thred. Someone will probably start a new thread about it. Might turn out to be be nothing but the announcement did have an ominous feel to it.

[spiderman]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Hopefully that's what he's been doing since his 1 and only appearance in a ST game. But he now appears to have a crisis of some sort. No details yet. It's in another thred. Someone will probably start a new thread about it. Might turn out to be be nothing but the announcement did have an ominous feel to it.

I'm sure he's already in great shape, but not being at camp (should it become several days) will allow the White Sox to use even more caution with him. It may align with his service time as well.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, spiderman said:

I'm sure he's already in great shape, but not being at camp (should it become several days) will allow the White Sox to use even more caution with him. It may align with his service time as well.

Maybe too conveniently aligning with his service time.  I say that without belittling what may be a serious situation.

[spiderman]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Maybe too conveniently aligning with his service time.  I say that without belittling what may be a serious situation.

Yes, I would prefer to not speculate on why he's not at camp. Hopefully, it's unrelated to health reasons and some completely unrelated. 

Let's play this out though - assuming he comes back shortly and is ready to pitch, what is the White Sox rotation and how does limited spring training alter how they would use him?

Giolito, Keuchel, Lopez, Gonzalez and Cease are all likely to start the season in the rotation. Does Kopech become the 6th guy? Do they move Gonzalez into the bullpen as a long-reliever? Very interesting.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, spiderman said:

Yes, I would prefer to not speculate on why he's not at camp. Hopefully, it's unrelated to health reasons and some completely unrelated. 

Let's play this out though - assuming he comes back shortly and is ready to pitch, what is the White Sox rotation and how does limited spring training alter how they would use him?

Giolito, Keuchel, Lopez, Gonzalez and Cease are all likely to start the season in the rotation. Does Kopech become the 6th guy? Do they move Gonzalez into the bullpen as a long-reliever? Very interesting.

I've given it some thought and all we can do is speculate and see what happens. I think they go with a 5 man rotation. Kopech in the pen to start the season unless Gonzalez isn't ready to go either. Only Lopez Keuchel and Cease pitched much in ST so I think those 3 along with Giolito are in the rotation. That leaves Gonzalez, Kopech and Rodon. My guess is Gonzalez is in the rotation  , Kopech and Rodon in the pen as pitchers following the starters  perhaps Kopech pairs with Keuchel and Rodon (if healthy ) pairs with Lopez or Cease. After that you just manage innings and build up stamina in all 7 . By game 30-40 start shaping the rotation with who has pitched best with an eye toward the playoffs . Who knows maybe a surprise guy like Dunning comes out of nowhere and forces himself in the conversation too.

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, spiderman said:

Yes, I would prefer to not speculate on why he's not at camp. Hopefully, it's unrelated to health reasons and some completely unrelated. 

Let's play this out though - assuming he comes back shortly and is ready to pitch, what is the White Sox rotation and how does limited spring training alter how they would use him?

Giolito, Keuchel, Lopez, Gonzalez and Cease are all likely to start the season in the rotation. Does Kopech become the 6th guy? Do they move Gonzalez into the bullpen as a long-reliever? Very interesting.

I think they should consider moving Lopez to the bullpen. He'd probably end up throwing 100 mph out of the pen and because he's really inconsistent with his secondary pitches, he can experiment with all three of them to see which ones work best. I think he should focus on his curve and change because I think those are his better secondaries. The problem he has using slider/changeup is that they're both around the same velocity in the mid 80s. 

The other thing is that you have to see if Rodon can stay healthy. If he does, you might be able to get him for a bargain of a contract because of his injury issues. We all know what Rodon can do when he's healthy....the issue is that he's rarely available. 

If I were setting the rotation it would be: 

Giolito

Keuchel

Kopech/Cease

Rodon

Cease/Kopech

Gonzalez as a piggy back with Kopech/Rodon/Cease if necessary

Lopez to the bullpen, with the option to piggy back if Gonzalez is unavailable. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Kyyle23]

Kopech left the team to deal with a personal matter.  The team said he is 100 percent healthy 

[ScootsMcGoots]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Kopech left the team to deal with a personal matter.  The team said he is 100 percent healthy 

Uh ohhhhh

[pcq]

Vanessa is AA and I am sure he must be suffering from that white guilt syndrome we read about. Dealing with CV can be exhausting as well. He will be back. Ian Desmond had a hard time too.