Soxsi75 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Hypothetical question based strictly on opinion. But who does everyone think was the better White Sox team? Our 1994 version, that was wiped out because of the strike? Or the 2005 team that was able to fulfill all of our dreams? I would say the 1994 team. This team had everything. Far and away the best starting rotation in the AL. McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez and Bere. A closer in Roberto Hernandez. Lefthanded relief specialist in Assenmacher and dept in the pen with DeLeon and McCaskill. The everyday lineup had people at the top who got on, Raines and Cora. Thomas, need I say more, hitting 3rd, a cleanup hitter in Franco, who had 100 RBI's by August to protect Frank, something we didn't have the year before. In the playoffs, it seemed Toronto's whole game plan was to not give Thomas anything to hit because we didn't have a legit clean up hitter. More power with Ventura. Depth in the lineup. Lance Johnson, a .300 hitter hitting 7th. The lineup had speed, Raines, Johnson, and Cora and Guillen to a certain extent. Power with Thomas, Franco and Ventura. Defensively, Ventura, Guillen, Karkovice and Lance Johnson were as good anyone in the league at the time at their respective positions. This is not meant to take ANYTHING away from the 2005 team. We were the best team in baseball that year and should have won and did. But I do think the 1994 club was more talented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 2003 is the most talented White Sox team ever assembled, so they're my answer if you're asking about talent. They werent particularly good though. 2005 is one of the greatest teams in MLB history for going wire to best team record in the AL and then 11-1 in the playoffs. They were better than the some of their parts to be sure so I guess it depends how you want to phrase the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 1994 had stats 2005 had rings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxsi75 Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said: 2003 is the most talented White Sox team ever assembled, so they're my answer if you're asking about talent. They werent particularly good though. 2005 is one of the greatest teams in MLB history for going wire to best team record in the AL and then 11-1 in the playoffs. They were better than the some of their parts to be sure so I guess it depends how you want to phrase the question. Excellent point about 2003!! They can most certainly be thrown into this mix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxsi75 Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said: 1994 had stats 2005 had rings But remember, the 94 team never had the CHANCE to. Edited April 29, 2020 by Soxsi75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Just now, Soxsi75 said: But remember, the 94 team never had the CHANCE to. Doesn't matter. They still DIDN'T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxsi75 Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said: Doesn't matter. They still DIDN'T. OK, fair enough. We all know that. Hence, why it's hypothetical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Hermanson/Cotts/Politte, and then later on Jenks, are tough to pass up. Roberto Hernandez wasn’t exactly having a great season in 94. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 2005 by a mile because of clutch hits (Iguchi, AJ, Dye), clutch home runs (Crede, Konerko, Pods and Blum), incredible defensive plays (Uribe in Game 4), key starts (Garland, Fast Freddie, etc), bull pen performances (Big Bad, Buehrle, Cotts, El Duque etc) and Ozzie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 McDowell, Alvarez, Fernandez, and Bere is tough to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, tray said: 2005 by a mile because of clutch hits (Iguchi, AJ, Dye), clutch home runs (Crede, Konerko, Pods and Blum), incredible defensive plays (Uribe in Game 4), key starts (Garland, Fast Freddie, etc), bull pen performances (Big Bad, Buehrle, Cotts, El Duque etc) and Ozzie. Julio Franco is all that needs to be said. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said: 1994 had stats 2005 had rings 1994 didn't have the chance, it isn't that they lost. They're the ultimate what could have been, or at least they were until 2005. I loved both of those teams, and the 94 team was right when I was learning to love baseball. Frank Thomas was at the absolute peak of his powers. Just unreal numbers. (.353/38/101 and 353/.487/.729 (?!?!?!?!?)) Keep in mind that wasn't even a full season Frank put up those numbers (and 34 doubles) in 113 games. I mean a 1.217 OPS, cmon, that isn't fair. Ventura, DJ, Raines, One Dog, Ozzie, Cora, and the already old, and would play like 100 more years, Julio Franco. It was a great group to follow. The pitching was really good too. Black Jack was already established as an ace, and Fernandez, Alvarez and Bere were all young guns coming into their own. It was a super fun team. But, with that said, I think the 05 team was better. The staff was better top to bottom, the bullpen was better (it seems like everyone in the pen had a career year that year, and stepped up into any role.). The lineup. Well the lineup has to go to the 94 team. Frank alone would carry that. Other than Frank, it is really close. The 05 team hit for more power (game changed) but the 94 team walked a lot more and actually had a better team SLG (Thanks Frank!). They actually BBed about 60 more times in about 50 fewer games. Wow, I didn't recall this, but Konerko was the only guy to BB more than 42 times in 05. That's crazy. Offensively I'm taking 94. Overall, 05. They're close though. At least I think they are. Haha. Edited April 30, 2020 by turnin' two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ptatc said: McDowell, Alvarez, Fernandez, and Bere is tough to beat. And yet... Buehrle was better than McDowell (ERA, WHIP, Win % ( and wins still mattered as both guys averaged more than 7IP)) Fernandez and Garcia were like, the same. Creepily so. Garland and Alvarez were close, slight advantage to Alvarez in ERA, more substantial advantage to Garland in WHIP, very similar. Contreras was a bit better than Bere. That is no slight on Bere, who as a 23 year old went 12-2 and K'd 8 guys per 9, with a biiig fastball, and put up a good ERA though lots of BBs as well. But Contreras was a monster in the 2nd half ,and was better across the board. Bere gets the nod in win %, (.857!!!) but averaged about 5.2 IP, where Contreras averaged just over 6.1 (and still had a great win % of .682) Buehrle and Contreras make the difference. However you chose to match them up, I think those two end up as advantages for the 05. So I'd say, the 05 team beats them. Edited April 30, 2020 by turnin' two 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 2006 WSox was significantly more talented than 2005. Edited April 30, 2020 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 minute ago, fathom said: 2006 WSox was significant more talented than 2005. I agree, though I'll take the team that went 110-64 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 hour ago, fathom said: 2006 WSox was significantly more talented than 2005. One of the things I didn't realize until the modern era was that Aaron Rowand was a 5 fWAR player in 2004 and a 3.5 fWAR player in 2005. If I offered you an expensive DH for that player and a pitching prospect today, wouldn't everyone hesitate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: One of the things I didn't realize until the modern era was that Aaron Rowand was a 5 fWAR player in 2004 and a 3.5 fWAR player in 2005. If I offered you an expensive DH for that player and a pitching prospect today, wouldn't everyone hesitate? Isn't part of that equation also a first round pick, top 50 CF prospect who had gold glove potential as well has had hit pretty darn well in the minors? And the DH had put up close to 9 oWAR in the previous 2 seasons as well (not counting a very injury shortened 05...though I guess that would have to play in as well). I guess my take, is that even now, it is hard to second guess when the organization was so high on Anderson. It is the inclusion of Gio that makes it more questionable. Rowand for Thome should have been about a straight swap. But even that is probably just knowing what he would become in hindsight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 2020 line-up may have been better than all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 That 05 team pushes for best regular season record of all-time if they're just "not bad" in August/early September as opposed to a HORROR show. Imagine that on top of the 11-1 playoff record? The 94 team was hugely talented but we don't "know" what happens in the alternate universe where that season gets played out. We do KNOW that the 05 White Sox won 99 games and DOMINATED the playoffs on cruise control to a WS title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 13 hours ago, Balta1701 said: One of the things I didn't realize until the modern era was that Aaron Rowand was a 5 fWAR player in 2004 and a 3.5 fWAR player in 2005. If I offered you an expensive DH for that player and a pitching prospect today, wouldn't everyone hesitate? I looked up Jermaine Dye’s stats last night on fangraphs and holy cow, his defense was worse than I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 12 hours ago, turnin' two said: Isn't part of that equation also a first round pick, top 50 CF prospect who had gold glove potential as well has had hit pretty darn well in the minors? And the DH had put up close to 9 oWAR in the previous 2 seasons as well (not counting a very injury shortened 05...though I guess that would have to play in as well). I guess my take, is that even now, it is hard to second guess when the organization was so high on Anderson. It is the inclusion of Gio that makes it more questionable. Rowand for Thome should have been about a straight swap. But even that is probably just knowing what he would become in hindsight. Exactly. He was expendable to help fill other voids because Anderson looked like the future at the CF position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, fathom said: I looked up Jermaine Dye’s stats last night on fangraphs and holy cow, his defense was worse than I remember. He was literally the only weak link on that '05 team defensively. Pretty amazing how good that team was on that end. Edited April 30, 2020 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 hour ago, fathom said: I looked up Jermaine Dye’s stats last night on fangraphs and holy cow, his defense was worse than I remember. 1 hour ago, SoxAce said: He was literally the only weak link on that '05 team defensively. Pretty amazing how good that team was on that end. He had just destroyed his leg beforehand so I'm not sure that's unsurprising. So, your "More talented" 2006 team had an outfield of Podsednik (hurt a lot)/Ozuna, Mackowiak, Dye. It's amazing that they actually caught anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 52 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: He had just destroyed his leg beforehand so I'm not sure that's unsurprising. So, your "More talented" 2006 team had an outfield of Podsednik (hurt a lot)/Ozuna, Mackowiak, Dye. It's amazing that they actually caught anything. They didn’t catch anything, that was an issue funny enough, Dye last night said the 2006 team was more talented as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 05 felt like they were overachieving, then the slump made it seem even more so. I recall in 94 feeling like they were doing what they should have been doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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