George Floyd Thread

[Boopa1219]

They need to examine their relationship, they knew each other. I believe this was premeditated. 

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

https://www.startribune.com/ellison-expected-to-provide-update-on-george-floyd-investigation/570984872/

Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison to elevate charges against officer who knelt on George Floyd's neck; also charging other 3 involvedThis

So the rioting and protesting worked for something. 3 guys would have totally got away with it. The neck kneeler would have had a slap on the wrist, and that is only because it was recorded. They all would have gotten away with it if not.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, Joshua Strong said:

They need to examine their relationship, they knew each other. I believe this was premeditated. 

The guy had 18 complaints against him. At what point does someone have to say, this guy has a problem, maybe having him out on the street with police powers isn't a good thing?

[Boopa1219]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

The guy had 18 complaints against him. At what point does someone have to say, this guy has a problem, maybe having him out on the street with police powers isn't a good thing?

That too. He should’ve been dropped after the first one, he should’ve never been out on the street. 

[Dick Allen]

I also get a kick out of his wife making sure everyone knows she's divorcing him and changing her name. That was to save herself. She knows what he is.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I also get a kick out of his wife making sure everyone knows she's divorcing him and changing her name. That was to save herself. She knows what he is.

If he is as abusive of a husband as he is a cop, this might have been her chance to get out while having the cover to do so.  He isn't going to be able to come after her, and she knows it.  She is leaving a cop who has gotten away with 18 counts of abuse as a cop, what chance does she have?  Calling the police?  This might have been her salvation.

[Quin]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If he is as abusive of a husband as he is a cop, this might have been her chance to get out while having the cover to do so.  He isn't going to be able to come after her, and she knows it.  She is leaving a cop who has gotten away with 18 counts of abuse as a cop, what chance does she have?  Calling the police?  This might have been her salvation.

It's an older story, and thus studies, but back in 2014, two studies found at least 40 percent of police officer families experience domestic violence.

Edit: Forgot link

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-officers-who-hit-their-wives-or-girlfriends/380329/

[Harry Chappas]

3 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

That too. He should’ve been dropped after the first one, he should’ve never been out on the street. 

If everyone was dropped after the first one there would be no police on the street.  There is good money to be made in filing complaints against police officers some justified some unjustified. 

The difficult part of all of this is that there are good and bad on both sides and the bad on both sides are the focal points and greatly outweigh the good.  These things are not going to go away and protesting on the surface is the right notion.  The problem is that George Floyd has now become Rodney King and his name is now synonymous with rioting and destruction.

I have watched national news quite often over the last few days....I never watch national news....but I found it rather amazing how it was covered on CNN v Fox.  It is sickening that there is no impartial coverage of any happenings any longer and there is no leader of people in this country.  

 

[Jerksticks]

I think if you decide to sign some piece of paper that says “Do what you’re told for 20-30 years and you’ll never have to worry about money and we’ll give you a pension” then you need to act like a b****.  That’s the trade-off for not having to use your balls to go out in the world and see what you’re worth.  Clean the streets, carry groceries for people, rescue kittens in trees, be a humble servant etc.   That’s what it should be.  Instead we have all these guys running around thinking they’re Navy Seals with body armor and advanced tactical equipment, intimidating the shit out of people.  For what?  

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

It's an older story, and thus studies, but back in 2014, two studies found at least 40 percent of police officer families experience domestic violence.

Let's be honest, if she was that ready to file divorce, this didn't just happen over night. She had wanted to for a long time but didn't for some reason.

[Boopa1219]

4 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

If everyone was dropped after the first one there would be no police on the street.  There is good money to be made in filing complaints against police officers some justified some unjustified. 

The difficult part of all of this is that there are good and bad on both sides and the bad on both sides are the focal points and greatly outweigh the good.  These things are not going to go away and protesting on the surface is the right notion.  The problem is that George Floyd has now become Rodney King and his name is now synonymous with rioting and destruction.

I have watched national news quite often over the last few days....I never watch national news....but I found it rather amazing how it was covered on CNN v Fox.  It is sickening that there is no impartial coverage of any happenings any longer and there is no leader of people in this country.  

 

Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense. 

You're right that there’s people out there who are looking for a paycheck but a good police officer shouldn’t have anything to worry about and should welcome their day in court, you know that due process a lot of unarmed black people are denied because they’re killed by police officers. 

I said it earlier in this thread, black people have been protesting peacefully for years and no real progress have been made. The only certainty when black people protest peacefully is that white talking heads/general public is going to accuse them of being disrespectful being over dramatic. If that didn’t work, what else is there to do? What will it take for real progress to be made? What will it take for black people’s lives to be valued?

*Again, a lot of the violence and rioting has been caused by opportunist but if another black person told me they were going to riot to get their point across, I would totally understand them because the other way has only accomplished so much.

 

[southsideirish71]

1 hour ago, Joshua Strong said:

I get that you’re south side Irish and this may be a hard concept to grasp but the police officers are the people who are escalating these situations. They’re the ones who are going to violence first. If the police were focused on protecting protestors, then a lot of the looting wouldn’t be happening. Yeah there’s opportunist using what’s going on to steal and incite violence but the police are doing nothing to stop that problem.

I also think the people who have been shooting at the police are not members of the protest but opportunist, who are using the protest as a shield in order to loot and cause harm.

I know there was violence on the south side last night where Latin Kings just brutalized every black person they came across and the police just stood by. I know in LA last night police officers blocked people’s ability to use their phones and take videos of what they were doing. Police officers have been breaking into the homes of people who have been shielding protestors and arresting people.

The police are meant to protect and serve communities, to protect people’s constitutional rights. The police are not another branch of the military, the police have been violating people’s constitutional rights. Let’s not forget to mention the hundreds of years of police terrorizing black and brown people.

I didn’t say abolish the police but they need to be defunded/have their spending drastically cut and demilitarized and those dollars should go back into the communities and the people in them. 

I was talking to a white friend of mine about change we wanted to see. I’ll ask you what I asked him, how much change do you expect to see in a nation that was built on white supremacy? There’s needs to be a complete overhaul of the country and the system. America was dying and it’s been dealt a death blow. What’s happening now is scary for a lot of people, hopefully the new country that comes out of this is better for everyone.

Actually I was born in Ireland. I lived on the south side and I am Irish and I am a US citizen.   I also worked in law enforcement as well.  Most of the people I have encountered in law enforcement are in it for the right reasons.  They care about their job, they care about doing the right thing.  Just like any career like this you have people that should never be the police.  There is a sect that joins the police for the same reason they join the military.  The fantasy of power.  They are usually easy to identify, but once again.  The union makes it hard to weed them out.   Just like its hard to weed anyone out when you have a contract and collective bargaining.    The funding you speak of for the "military" style weapons are typically  part of grants  usually part of a federal program.  This is not the local tax dollars buying tanks.  Its a grant that gives you access to a specific item or items.  The local tax dollars are more for operational costs.  The police were uniforms.  Outside of the tactical side of the house which is special operations such as srt/swat the average police office wears a normal uniform and has a police car.  The police cars are manufactured by Ford/Chevy and are not military style.  They have a hopped up engine, some stabilizing bars, a barrier for the detained, a terminal.  They are typically painted ether to be very visible as a deterrent or dark for the ability to mask themselves typically for traffic interdiction.  They were bullet proof vests which are bulky.  They have their firearm, their secondary, a mag light, the less than lethal weapons, their star.   I dont know what you want them to wear.  

[Boopa1219]

1 minute ago, southsideirish71 said:

I also worked in law enforcement as well.  Most of the people I have encountered in law enforcement are in it for the right reasons.

There’s a dying lemon tree at my family’s house, it still sprouts a few good lemons every once in a while but because it’s a dying tree most of the lemons turn out to be shit.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the system, from the ground up. 

[southsideirish71]

1 minute ago, Joshua Strong said:

Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense. 

You're right that there’s people out there who are looking for a paycheck but a good police officer shouldn’t have anything to worry about and should welcome their day in court, you know that due process a lot of unarmed black people are denied because they’re killed by police officers. 

 I said it earlier in this thread, black people have been protesting peacefully for years and no real progress have been made. The only certainty when black people protest peacefully is that white talking heads/general public is going to accuse them of being disrespectful being over dramatic. If that didn’t work, what else is there to do? What will it take for real progress to be made? What will it take for black people’s lives to be valued?

*Again, a lot of the violence and rioting has been caused by opportunist but if another black person told me they were going to riot to get their point across, I would totally understand them because the other way has only accomplished so much.

 

Well Mr Day in Court.  Most of these are settled.  Like the one where a police friend of mine saw a car at 3am driving with its lights off.  He pulls behind it puts on the spotlight and runs the plate.  The car comes up stolen.  He then turns his lights on and the car takes off at a high rate of speed.  He pursues for about a mile then gets told to abandon the chase due to danger.  About 5 miles away, that same car who ran away at a high rate of speed blows out a tire and the car flips.  They arrest the two teenagers.  The parents get a lawyer and sue the police dept and the officers involved.  They settled it to make it go away.  Now would the police officer like to have his day in court. Sure.  His employer however wants to mitigate every case.  

And I am glad you are okay with the rioters because they have been oppressed.  I hope you were okay back in the 70s with my countrymen blowing up department stores in England because we were oppressed as well.   

[southsideirish71]

2 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

 There’s a dying lemon tree at my family’s house, it still sprouts a few good lemons every once in a while but because it’s a dying tree most of the lemons turn out to be shit.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the system, from the ground up. 

Okay well lets get details.  What does this system look like.  

[Soxbadger]

7 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

Okay well lets get details.  What does this system look like.  

At minimum civilian oversight. Imagine if those 18 reports had to go to some sort of 3rd party civilian oversight who could have the officer terminated. Imagine if when there is an arrest or situation like Floyd it had to be live streamed to a 3rd party civilian oversight who could order the officer to stop, or order the officer not to shoot.

Instead of spending millions on militarizing our police, we could be spending it on technology to protect our citizens.

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

Okay well lets get details.  What does this system look like.  

This has been trending all day: https://www.gq.com/story/deray-mckesson-interview-8-cant-wait

 

Quote

 

The idea is that, if police departments adopt eight reforms of when and how they use force, the ensuing data shows a significant drop in killings—as much as 72% if all eight are followed. The policies are as follows:

• Ban chokeholds and strangleholds

• Require de-escalation

• Require warning before shooting

• Exhaust all other means before shooting

• Duty to intervene and stop excessive force by other officers

• Ban shooting at moving vehicles

• Require use-of-force continuum

• Require comprehensive reporting each time an officer uses forces or threatens to do so

 

•  

[raBBit]

27 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

There’s a dying lemon tree at my family’s house, it still sprouts a few good lemons every once in a while but because it’s a dying tree most of the lemons turn out to be shit.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the system, from the ground up. 

Yup. All leadership in Minneapolis needs to be removed.

[WilliamTell]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Let's be honest, if she was that ready to file divorce, this didn't just happen over night. She had wanted to for a long time but didn't for some reason.

To be honest, it's pretty hard going into court and getting a fair decision against an officer.  I have a friend that divorced a female officer after having 2 kids together, she gets the kids  11/14 days every two weeks. I'm sure other circumstances involved but still.

[turnin' two]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The other scary thing is the 3rd degree murder charge against the officer who had his knee on George's neck for 9 minutes,  recorded, is set up to be dropped.  If that happens,  then what?

Obviously, there needs to be big change. But does anyone really believe these protests will lead to it? We have been here before so often, then it's like the attention goes somewhere else. Hopefully we can continue protesting until something happens. if it stops next week, nothing is going to change.

I mean, they just upgraded the charges to 2nd degree murder.  Why do you think the charges will be dropped?

[turnin' two]

57 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

This has been trending all day: https://www.gq.com/story/deray-mckesson-interview-8-cant-wait

 

•  

This seems quite reasonable and achievable to me.

[southsideirish71]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

This has been trending all day: https://www.gq.com/story/deray-mckesson-interview-8-cant-wait

 

•  

• Ban chokeholds and strangleholds  Fine no problem

• Require de-escalation De-escalation is fine as long as its not an imminent threat. 

• Require warning before shooting  Well this depends on the situation.  I am not going to wait 20 minutes and banter with the suspect if he is openly shooting at me, or pointing a firearm at me, or is branishing a deadly weapon and moving toward me.  This is not the old west where I am going to quick draw mcgraw him.  There is a difference between pulling a weapon and warning a suspect to de-escalate.  There is another where I am not going to wait to see if he shoots me first before I return fire.  

• Exhaust all other means before shooting  Well this depends on the situation. If you feel your life or another life is in danger waiting for the person to be talked off a ledge is pointless. I agree in principle this is good, and most officers never want to discharge their weapon.  

• Duty to intervene and stop excessive force by other officers Fine no problem

• Ban shooting at moving vehicle A car can be a weapon.  There is a difference between someone shooting at a fleeing car vs a car charging at you.  So if the point is to stop shooting a fleeing vehicle sure.  If its a car charging at me.  Sorry I am shooting the bad guy and not telling them well I didnt shoot him but send my widow some flowers.

• Require use-of-force continuum This is fine.  But once again.  This cant turn into what LA was proposing.  I see a bad guy with a gun.  The police should leave to descalate the situation.  Well great.  Until the bad guy shoots your family member and you find out that a cop took off because the bad guy had a gun.  

• Require comprehensive reporting each time an officer uses forces or threatens to do so This already pretty much happens

Edited June 3, 2020 by southsideirish71

[caulfield12]

The other side of this is the lack of/fear of prosecution on the Hennepin County side of things.

Without the initial press conference from Freeman that provided zero information or clarification, this whole situation might not have blown up the way it did...

It ended up costing Klobuchar her VP shot, as her record of not bringing charges and (at best, questionable) treatment of high profile cases was further examined.

If Ellison hadn’t been there at the Federal level to intervene, where would things stand now...if this was a typical “law and order” southern state?   

[Dick Allen]

8 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

I mean, they just upgraded the charges to 2nd degree murder.  Why do you think the charges will be dropped?

The new charge probably ends that. But I later linked an article from probably the #1 Constitution attorney and a prominent Minneapolis attorney that explained why the 3rd degree charge would have almost certainly been dismissed. 

[Boopa1219]

54 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Yup. All leadership in Minneapolis needs to be removed.

I can’t feel if you’re being facetious but yes, not just in Minneapolis but nationwide, worldwide.