George Floyd Thread

[caulfield12]

PROTESTER PUSHED TO GROUND BY POLICE IS LONGTIME PEACE ACTIVIST FROM AMHERST

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/buffalo-police-suspended-for-shoving-protester-to-the-ground.html

Video filmed by local radio station WBFO shows the man, identified as Martin Gugino by the group People United for Sustainable Housing Buffalo, stopping to talk to police in riot gear as they begin to clear Niagara Square for the 8 p.m. curfew. As an officer yells “push him back,” one officer extends his arm to shove Gugino, while another pushes a baton into his chest.

 

Can’t wait for this to be labeled fake news since it seems he’s much more sympathetic to liberal causes

https://www.gofundme.com/f/210cr0todc?sharetype=teams&member=4556988&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_na+share-sheet&pc_code=ot_co_dashboard_a&rcid=dd52e134bae14960bcb8aed91fdedf0c
GoFundEm just starting out at a bit over $1000

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s utter insanity.  I mean, we gave people like $1,200 per eligible person for COVID-19 and that cost us nearly a 1/4 of a trillion dollars.  I believe our Federal revenue is somewhere in the $3M to $4M range per year, so basically a 1/16 of that.

Now give the ~40M African Americans $1M each and well I can’t do that math.  But I think we can just safely assume it would be a bit of a financial problem ?

Only $40,000,000,000,000......we could take the national debt from roughly $25 trillion and increase it by 160% in one fell swoop.

I can just imagine the faces of Grover Norquist, Mitch McConnell and the House Freedom Caucus.

According to another online study, 40 Acres and a Mule in current dollars would run around $6.4 trillion. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

In this era the good cops are people with cell phones. That's all we have. The Buffalo story is ridiculous. 

Not a single one of them stopped to render aid to a person with blood coming out of his ears.

The cop who shoved him will probably be fired and maybe charged with something since it’s on camera, but not a single one of them demonstrated decency. Why should I trust any of them in any situation? I shouldn’t.

How many thousands of times can I say the same thing about groups of police over the past week?

[pcq]

Worth remembering that each cop and protester should not be judged by the ones they are standing next to. Smart people do not use stereotypes. 

[StrangeSox]

You can judge people who choose to be part of these violent organizations who at best turn a blind eye to what goes on around them

Expect to see a whole lot of suspicious charges against protesters and especially organizers. The lawlessness is rampant in departments at every level from coast to coast.

[Balta1701]

47 minutes ago, pcq said:

Worth remembering that each cop and protester should not be judged by the ones they are standing next to. Smart people do not use stereotypes. 

Isn't that the exact opposite of the truth for a police officer?

If a police officer sees their colleague beating someone with a club or knocking over an unarmed person and causing blood to pour from their ears and does nothing to intervene or walks past it...shouldn't you judge them for not acting? They literally are supposed to have the authority to do the right thing. 

[pcq]

31 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Isn't that the exact opposite of the truth for a police officer?

If a police officer sees their colleague beating someone with a club or knocking over an unarmed person and causing blood to pour from their ears and does nothing to intervene or walks past it...shouldn't you judge them for not acting? They literally are supposed to have the authority to do the right thing. 

Each cop is responsible for their own behavior yes. I am not pre-judging. 

[Soxbadger]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

Worth remembering that each cop and protester should not be judged by the ones they are standing next to. Smart people do not use stereotypes. 

This isnt correct. A protester has no legal authority nor obligation to stop someone from doing something wrong.

Police have an obligation to protect and serve. If they see another police officer breaking the law, they then have an obligation to do something. 

For example, if I pushed down an elderly man in front of a police officer, do you think the police officer should do something?

If I am placing my knee on another persons neck in front of a police officer, do you think the police should do something?

So its absolutely fair to judge a police officer for not doing anything when a crime is being committed. Maybe its not as bad as committing the crime, but its not good either. 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Soxbadger

[Balta1701]

20 minutes ago, pcq said:

Each cop is responsible for their own behavior yes. I am not pre-judging. 

People aren't born police officers. The decision to continue working with these departments, alongside people who are behaving like this, is one you are totally justified in judging.

[greg775]

8 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Why?

There’s clearly no consensus on this issue...and I can hardly imagine Kamala Harris, the Atlanta mayor or Rep. Val Demings will make that a pre-condition of being the Biden VP choice.

Saying it’s going to be part of the Democratic platform any more so than UBI or blanket student loan forgiveness is dubious at best, especially at the numbers you’re bandying about.

 

Btw, the 75 year old in Buffalo was in serious condition overnight in the hospital.  Two police officers suspended so far.

It's apparent to me at least from the debates and the continuing, current state of our country in terms of violent/racist cops, reparations will be an important part of the campaign. Should be interesting to hear Trump explain how he could be against reparations when the other candidate is for significant reparations.

I want to give $1 million to each African American single person and each household because that amount of money is significant. It would make a real difference in their lives and in the economic status of African Americans. If they treat the money wisely (invest, etc.) then the reparations would do what intended. They would (greatly) make up for the past sins and be a nice payment in apology for the horrific thing called slavery.

As far as how much without having so much debt without ruining the country, I need you experts to tell me the math and if my plan COULD be implemented and not wreck the country's economy (I read the previous response with a lot of 0000s in it but no comment on if we could do it and still save the economy). Reparation $$ must be significant, not insultingly low amount.

p.s. I was thinking to help my plan we could have a tax on the upper 5 percent wealth-holders in the country. Not accusing them of needing to pay but to help out. Also maybe a one-time tax on every other American of 1000 dollars or something. Just to help keep down the amount of money we have to print to fulfill my reparation plan. I'd gladly pay the 1000 to make my contribution to this.

And my other suggest ion of the police watchdog position awarded to an African American in every city ... we either abolish police departments or "try" to clean them up" and this is a step in the right direction.

That will be my last post about this ... unless somebody can figure out mathematically how my plan COULD be implemented by simply printing money and dealing with the economic consequences of national debt. In terms of giving African Americans what they deserve I think most would agree it 'should' be a million dollars IF WE COULD make that happen without ruining the economy.

Edited June 5, 2020 by greg775

[StrangeSox]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

People aren't born police officers. The decision to continue working with these departments, alongside people who are behaving like this, is one you are totally justified in judging.

Don't worry, they're resigning en masse!

 

But it's because there's even a tiny amount of accountability for the thugs who violently assaulted a 75 year old peace activist and left him bleeding from his head as they marched on to attack others.

 

[StrangeSox]

30 minutes ago, Tony said:

 

wow shocked to learn that the police are lying to us yet again??

 

 

 

Police across the country are showing and telling us all exactly who they are. Believe them.

 

[pcq]

1 hour ago, StrangeSox said:

Don't worry, they're resigning en masse!

 

But it's because there's even a tiny amount of accountability for the thugs who violently assaulted a 75 year old peace activist and left him bleeding from his head as they marched on to attack others.

 

They are still on the force. 

[Soxbadger]

In case people are keeping track of stupid things that are happening today.

President Trump has strongly condemned kneeling. That is kneeling during the national anthem, not when the police are apprehending a suspect.

The US postal service just released thousands of cloth masks that said "Black Lives Matter", they were held by the Post Office because "These packages were originally set aside for further investigation because there were indications that they contained non-mailable matter,”

It should be pretty clear to everyone that more protests are required and that the federal govt is completely messed up. 

[StrangeSox]

More cpd violence

 

 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Soxbadger said:

In case people are keeping track of stupid things that are happening today.

President Trump has strongly condemned kneeling. That is kneeling during the national anthem, not when the police are apprehending a suspect.

The US postal service just released thousands of cloth masks that said "Black Lives Matter", they were held by the Post Office because "These packages were originally set aside for further investigation because there were indications that they contained non-mailable matter,”

It should be pretty clear to everyone that more protests are required and that the federal govt is completely messed up. 

One wonders if the same orders will go out over mail-in ballots...maybe they’ll argue the ink or paper was dangerous to groups od roving children who were purportedly stealing them from USPS mailboxes “en masse.” 
 

“(Gugino is) a veteran peace activist involved with the Western New York Peace Center and Latin American Solidarity Committee, said Vicki Ross, the center’s executive director.

“I can assure you, Martin is a peaceable person,” Ross said. “There is no way that he was doing anything to accost or hurt. He made a judgment to stay out after the curfew because he feels that our civil liberties are so in danger, which they most certainly are.”

Ross said Gugino has been undergoing chemotherapy for cancer.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/75-old-man-shoved-ground-142946876.html

Edited June 5, 2020 by caulfield12

[Butter Parque]

16 hours ago, greg775 said:

Well, reparations is going to be a big point in the upcoming election. Biden is in favor; I would guess Trump for sure is not. If Joe B as expected, wins, he has to come up with an amount. I say $1 million per single African American person and $1 million per family "should" end a lot of this strife. That's a lot of money. And a very generous amount for reparations. Plus my suggestion about having Joe appoint an African American police watchdog or Police Observer if you will, who has an office next to the police chief and has the same powers as chief. We need solutions and I have two. I would also assume their would be Native American reparations. If so, the same amount of money. $1 million per Native American single person or $1 million per family unit.

This is insanity. A presidential candidate who supports this type of legislation would lose in a Goldwater/Mondale fashion. 

[Butter Parque]

17 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you actually think systematic oppression doesn’t exist?

No, I don't.

It's a crutch for people looking for excuses for why they don't succeed.

A black man dies at the hands of a cop and all of a sudden it's some sort of symbol for everything bad in the world. The facts don't bare any of that out. 

Daniel Shaver died at the hands of a police officer in the most disturbing way I've ever seen with my own eyes. I'm assuming no one on here gave a damn at the time. There certainly weren't any Puma stores looted as a result of it. 

[YoYoIsMyHero]

2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

More cpd violence

 

 

I spoke too soon earlier in the thread about CPD being a bit more reserved than other cities. Ridiculous. 

[YoYoIsMyHero]

3 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

No, I don't.

It's a crutch for people looking for excuses for why they don't succeed.

A black man dies at the hands of a cop and all of a sudden it's some sort of symbol for everything bad in the world. The facts don't bare any of that out. 

Daniel Shaver died at the hands of a police officer in the most disturbing way I've ever seen with my own eyes. I'm assuming no one on here gave a damn at the time. There certainly weren't any Puma stores looted as a result of it. 

I suggest you watch this video with an open mind. 

 

[SoxAce]

17 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you actually think systematic oppression doesn’t exist?

Can't help the ignorant unfortunately. 

[Butter Parque]

Just now, SoxAce said:

Can't help the ignorant unfortunately. 

You can call me ignorant all you want.

Walk around feeling guilty all your life and see where that gets you. 

[Butter Parque]

6 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

I suggest you watch this video with an open mind. 

 

No, thanks No interest in being shamed by a "progressive media company". It would be like me sending you Breitbart articles and telling you to become enlightened. 

My guess is it tells me that as a white person who had parents that got an education and worked hard in order to buy a house in the suburbs, I should feel guilty, as there's someone my age in the Queensbridge projects who didn't have those same advantages. And all of it stems from whites enslaving blacks, stealing their money, incarcerating them, etc. 

 

Again, the message is don't bother trying if you're black. Too many invisible forces against you. Continue to have children out of wedlock, work service-industry jobs, live in section 8 housing, and bring your WIC checks to the bodega. 

I truly feel for a black kid growing up who would be forced to listen to that message. He/she would be better off living on Mars. 

 

[ron883]

The "defund the police" idea is just insane. Honestly, just take a look at the job. They don't get paid that well, don't have much opportunity to advance. The job is extremely dangerous and stressful. They get harassed often and have to make difficult decisions, all while being under a microscope. The type of situations they can be put in WILL give them PTSD. The suicide and addiction rates are understandably high for the job.

 

Who wants to do that job given the lousy pay? Obviously, people who want the power. Defunding the police and paying them less will only make the problem worse. You'll get even shittier, more corrupt people going for the job. It needs to be a more desirable job with better pay. Make it more difficult to become a cop. Higher education requirements. People make similar arguments for teachers. Pay them better so it becomes a more desirable occupation and you attract the cream of the crop. Train them better too, obviously.

[YoYoIsMyHero]

32 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

No, thanks No interest in being shamed by a "progressive media company". It would be like me sending you Breitbart articles and telling you to become enlightened. 

My guess is it tells me that as a white person who had parents that got an education and worked hard in order to buy a house in the suburbs, I should feel guilty, as there's someone my age in the Queensbridge projects who didn't have those same advantages. And all of it stems from whites enslaving blacks, stealing their money, incarcerating them, etc. 

 

Again, the message is don't bother trying if you're black. Too many invisible forces against you. Continue to have children out of wedlock, work service-industry jobs, live in section 8 housing, and bring your WIC checks to the bodega. 

I truly feel for a black kid growing up who would be forced to listen to that message. He/she would be better off living on Mars. 

 

ok