George Floyd Thread

[Balta1701]

25 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The "defund the police" idea is just insane. Honestly, just take a look at the job. They don't get paid that well, don't have much opportunity to advance. The job is extremely dangerous and stressful. They get harassed often and have to make difficult decisions, all while being under a microscope. The type of situations they can be put in WILL give them PTSD. The suicide and addiction rates are understandably high for the job.

 

Who wants to do that job given the lousy pay? Obviously, people who want the power. Defunding the police and paying them less will only make the problem worse. You'll get even shittier, more corrupt people going for the job. It needs to be a more desirable job with better pay. Make it more difficult to become a cop. Higher education requirements. People make similar arguments for teachers. Pay them better so it becomes a more desirable occupation and you attract the cream of the crop. Train them better too, obviously.

Make the forces smaller overall, rearrange how you think about police (less "broken windows"), and cut back on the militaristic equipment, swat teams, and warrior types. 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-problem-with-broken-windows-policing/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/america-s-policing-budget-has-nearly-tripled-to-115-billion?sref=JTuIXQSO

 

[ron883]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Make the forces smaller overall, rearrange how you think about police (less "broken windows"), and cut back on the militaristic equipment, swat teams, and warrior types. 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-problem-with-broken-windows-policing/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/america-s-policing-budget-has-nearly-tripled-to-115-billion?sref=JTuIXQSO

 

Pay more, too. It's a highly stressful and dangerous job. You can earn much more with a degree while not risking your life every day. Very few intelligent people want that job.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

This is insanity. A presidential candidate who supports this type of legislation would lose in a Goldwater/Mondale fashion. 

Trump has run the biggest non-recession deficits in history even before Covid.  Those voters didn't give a shit until they started talking about social security and Medicare. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

You can call me ignorant all you want.

Walk around feeling guilty all your life and see where that gets you. 

Willfully ignoring what is happening around you is exactly that. Ignorance. 

[pcq]

1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

You can call me ignorant all you want.

Walk around feeling guilty all your life and see where that gets you. 

You've been hurt haven't you? 

[SoxAce]

1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

You can call me ignorant all you want.

Walk around feeling guilty all your life and see where that gets you. 

As a man who is of African American descent.. I don't need to, but thanks. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

No, I don't.

It's a crutch for people looking for excuses for why they don't succeed.

A black man dies at the hands of a cop and all of a sudden it's some sort of symbol for everything bad in the world. The facts don't bare any of that out. 

Daniel Shaver died at the hands of a police officer in the most disturbing way I've ever seen with my own eyes. I'm assuming no one on here gave a damn at the time. There certainly weren't any Puma stores looted as a result of it. 

Excuses for why people don’t succeed?  Come on man, everyone is a victim to their environment & upbringing and saying otherwise is ridiculous.  If can’t see that the average African American is at a huge disadvantage from the get-go in modern society then you are simply ignoring reality.

Also, I’ve seen the Daniel Shaver video and I tell people all the time how fucked up that was.  But that doesn’t take away from the fact that blacks are the victim of police brutality far too often.  If you can’t see that, then you are purposely being ignorant to the issue at hand.

[black jack]

22 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

You know what's really telling...

Walmart has pulled all guns and ammunition off their shelves in response to the protesting and rioting that has been happening. 

The website to apply for a FOID card is down for maintenance. 

There are white supremacists marching the streets hurting people of color and we can't even arm ourselves. 

Every time a white kid shoots up a school, Walmart has never even considered pulling their guns off the shelves. 

Walmart hasn't sold ammunition for a couple years now. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

On 6/3/2020 at 2:57 PM, southsideirish71 said:

• Ban chokeholds and strangleholds  Fine no problem

• Require de-escalation De-escalation is fine as long as its not an imminent threat. 

• Require warning before shooting  Well this depends on the situation.  I am not going to wait 20 minutes and banter with the suspect if he is openly shooting at me, or pointing a firearm at me, or is branishing a deadly weapon and moving toward me.  This is not the old west where I am going to quick draw mcgraw him.  There is a difference between pulling a weapon and warning a suspect to de-escalate.  There is another where I am not going to wait to see if he shoots me first before I return fire.  

• Exhaust all other means before shooting  Well this depends on the situation. If you feel your life or another life is in danger waiting for the person to be talked off a ledge is pointless. I agree in principle this is good, and most officers never want to discharge their weapon.  

• Duty to intervene and stop excessive force by other officers Fine no problem

• Ban shooting at moving vehicle A car can be a weapon.  There is a difference between someone shooting at a fleeing car vs a car charging at you.  So if the point is to stop shooting a fleeing vehicle sure.  If its a car charging at me.  Sorry I am shooting the bad guy and not telling them well I didnt shoot him but send my widow some flowers.

• Require use-of-force continuum This is fine.  But once again.  This cant turn into what LA was proposing.  I see a bad guy with a gun.  The police should leave to descalate the situation.  Well great.  Until the bad guy shoots your family member and you find out that a cop took off because the bad guy had a gun.  

• Require comprehensive reporting each time an officer uses forces or threatens to do so This already pretty much happens

Rather than "come at you" with suggestions, I thought I'd pick your brain, if you'd endulge me.

 

1. What did you think of the incident that caused George Floyd's death?

2. As a LE officer, do you think that excessive force incidents are too prevalent in the US? (Particularly with respect to certain groups?)

3. As a LE Officer, do you believe that there is room for changes in that industry? Why or why not?

 

I make no suppositions about you nor any judgements; I'm just interested in your view.

 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Pay more, too. It's a highly stressful and dangerous job. You can earn much more with a degree while not risking your life every day. Very few intelligent people want that job.

Pick just the Top 5-10% out of the Academy, and pay them 50% more.   Why shouldn’t some of our brightest Americans want to be policemen, serve in the Armed Forces or be public school teachers?   Imagine a country where 93% of those who wanted to be police officers or teachers were rejected...and they all willingly were part of (government subsidized) five year education programs available at only the best schools in the country?   Imagine how different the ultimate results would look.

 

Finland is going through a deep economic crisis, and there are financial pressures on schools, just as there are on the rest of the public sector. But the five-year master’s degree for primary school teachers is not in question. Competition is fierce – only 7% of applicants in Helsinki were accepted this year, leaving more than 1,400 disappointed.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/17/highly-trained-respected-and-free-why-finlands-teachers-are-different

[caulfield12]

https://eand.co/why-america-is-so-hateful-4ef03915e156

How Racism Ruined America

What Racism Really is, and How it Makes Americans Hate Each Other

 

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Pay more, too. It's a highly stressful and dangerous job. You can earn much more with a degree while not risking your life every day. Very few intelligent people want that job.

I was trying to find you the money to pay them more.

[greg775]

6 hours ago, Butter Parque said:

This is insanity. A presidential candidate who supports this type of legislation would lose in a Goldwater/Mondale fashion. 

What's insane (and could hurt Biden a bit but that's besides the point) is if his plan for reparations is some silly amount of money like 2500 bucks per family. That would be putting a low low low price on the horror of slavery, which reparations are meant to "help" repair bad feelings toward slavery. How much will Joe suggest? 10,000? 

My plan is $1 million per single person and $1 million per family which would (if possible and not ruining the economy) pretty much make every African American family at least middle class or better. My plan makes a difference in all this unrest, or it SHOULD. That's a large amount; a fair amount. Get the top 5 percent wealthy people to contribute mightily to the fund. Some donations like Mike Jordan's amazing donation would help cut into the cost (not Mike, however, as it's not his duty to address reparations of course).

What's insanity as you say, will be some meaningless amount of money regarding reparations. I guess Biden could promise free college education and med school for all African Americans and some things like that re. reparations, too. I'm trying to come up with meaningful change, not just talk. I get criticized a lot but my two original suggestions aren't drawing much commentary.

Edited June 6, 2020 by greg775

[greg775]

6 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The "defund the police" idea is just insane. Honestly, just take a look at the job. They don't get paid that well, don't have much opportunity to advance. The job is extremely dangerous and stressful. They get harassed often and have to make difficult decisions, all while being under a microscope. The type of situations they can be put in WILL give them PTSD. The suicide and addiction rates are understandably high for the job.

 

Who wants to do that job given the lousy pay? Obviously, people who want the power. Defunding the police and paying them less will only make the problem worse. You'll get even shittier, more corrupt people going for the job. It needs to be a more desirable job with better pay. Make it more difficult to become a cop. Higher education requirements. People make similar arguments for teachers. Pay them better so it becomes a more desirable occupation and you attract the cream of the crop. Train them better too, obviously.

There is serious discussion in Minnesota (Omar tweet, city council) to abolish police department in Minneapolis. If this happens, maybe we really are at the start of Armageddon. A ruthless, bad political figure in charge (Trump), a horrid disease (covid), fire (riots) and total anarchy (if police forces are dismantled; it would be The Purge every single nite with no cops).

[ron883]

3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

What's insane (and could hurt Biden a bit but that's besides the point) is if his plan for reparations is some silly amount of money like 2500 bucks per family. That would be putting a low low low price on the horror of slavery, which reparations are meant to "help" repair bad feelings toward slavery. How much will Joe suggest? 10,000? 

My plan is $1 million per single person and $1 million per family which would (if possible and not ruining the economy) pretty much make every African American family at least middle class or better. My plan makes a difference in all this unrest, or it SHOULD. That's a large amount; a fair amount. Get the top 5 percent wealthy people to contribute mightily to the fund. Some donations like Mike Jordan's amazing donation would help cut into the cost (not Mike, however, as it's not his duty to address reparations of course).

What's insanity as you say, will be some meaningless amount of money regarding reparations. I guess Biden could promise free college education and med school for all African Americans and some things like that re. reparations, too. I'm trying to come up with meaningful change, not just talk.

"Mike" Jordan ? that's good stuff. You're on fire tonight greg

[caulfield12]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/politics/us-protests-george-floyd-world-moral-leader-intl/index.html

In the Philippines, the convulsions in the US have also stirred incredulity. The country has a profound connection with the US, as the only country America ever colonized. More than 4 million people of Philippine heritage now live in the United States, and after Israel, it has the most favorable view of the US in the world, according to the Pew Research Center.

The Philippines' political system was built on America's. Its constitution is modeled on the US bill of rights and is an enviable safeguard for freedoms in the Southeast Asian region. 

Despite those safeguards, the Philippines has a history of moving between democracy and authoritarianism. The current president, Rodrigo Duterte, has managed to wield extraordinary firepower to clamp down on the country's drugs trade. Thousands have been killed under his orders for police to shoot dead anyone suspected of being connected to the trade.

Veteran journalist Maria Ressa, CEO of news website Rappler.com, said that although Duterte was worse than Trump in his use of force, the disregard for rights playing out in the US now will only vindicate his heavy-handedness at home. 

"Trump is very familiar to Filipinos. Many people have observed that he and Duterte have many things in common -- they are both sexist at best, misogynous at worst. They incite to hate and sometimes to violence, and they tend to divide and conquer, making it us against them, instead of providing a leadership that tries to unite and to heal," she told CNN. 

"But in general, Filipinos are stunned by what's happening in the US. It is familiar to us -- we have a president who tells police to shoot people dead -- but this is the United States. It's always been the guiding light, the values of democracy, the founding fathers' declaration of independence. And for the last three years, we and the world have grappled with who takes global leadership. We are wondering, has democracy failed?"

[caulfield12]

44 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

"Mike" Jordan ? that's good stuff. You're on fire tonight greg

Reached for comment by Newsweek, Biden's Deputy National Press Secretary Matt Hill pointed to the information listed on the campaign's website. Hill highlighted a particular sentence, which reads: "As Biden has said in this campaign, a Biden Administration will support a study of reparations."

.....

But he has not committed to funding financial reparations for the descendants of slaves, a key issue for many black American leaders and activists. Instead, he has pledged to formally study the issue if he is elected president.

https://www.newsweek.com/will-joe-biden-change-his-stance-reparations-1507923

 

Officers Charged in George Floyd's Death Not Likely to Present United Front

https://www.yahoo.com/news/officers-charged-george-floyds-death-190215541.html

Really well-researched NY Times article which eventually delves into the backgrounds of each of the four Minneapolis officers involved in the Floyd case, especially pertinent as this has been discussed extensively in terms of training/education for police departments of the future...

Edited June 6, 2020 by caulfield12

[YoYoIsMyHero]

I can't get over criticizing protests about police brutality and extrajudicial killings, and subsequent unrest, by bringing up another example of police brutality and extrajudicial killing

[NWINFan]

One sick thing about this is GOP senators refusing to even give a no comment when asked about tear-gassing peaceful protestors so Trump can have a  photo op. They know that their leader has failed to handle this crisis and they won't say one word about it. And the mere idea of using the military to police citizens is one other thing they know is wrong. And they won't say a word about that, either.

[The Beast]

Just to confirm, Biden’s platform doesn’t include a dollar amount for reparations in his plan for black America. The only person proposing payments in the primaries was Maryanne Williamson and we saw how well her electoral chances played out. He said he would study them. His plan is more about investment than anything.

https://joebiden.com/highlights-from-joe-bidens-agenda-for-the-black-community/

 

[Kyyle23]

17 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Just to confirm, Biden’s platform doesn’t include a dollar amount for reparations in his plan for black America. The only person proposing payments in the primaries was Maryanne Williamson and we saw how well her electoral chances played out. He said he would study them. His plan is more about investment than anything.

https://joebiden.com/highlights-from-joe-bidens-agenda-for-the-black-community/

 

The plan is $1M per person

[The Beast]

15 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

The plan is $1M per person

Source? I thought that was another poster’s plan.

[Chicago White Sox]

27 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

The plan is $1M per person

And funded by the super wealthy!  Mike Jordan’s $100M donation has already covered 100 of the ~40M African Americans.  If the remaining 600 billionaires in the US are willing to contribute a measly $66 billion each we can easily solve Greg’s plan!

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

Source? I thought that was another poster’s plan.

Dude have you ever read my posts before 

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Dude have you ever read my posts before 

What’s your point?