George Floyd Thread

[StrangeSox]

You can make a partial analogy to the way we identify carcinogens.

 

We can't prove that any one case of lung cancer was caused by tobacco use. But what we can do is look at all of the data of lung cancer prevalence in different populations and come to a solid conclusion about the carcinogenic effects of smoking.

Similarly, we can look at things like studies where headshots are or aren't included and find discriminatory effects when they are. We can look at studies that send out identical resumes with only different names like Joe Smith or Jamaal Griffith and see substantially different interview scheduling results.  Many, many studies of these sorts of effects are out there.

 

And then we can look at the public policy discriminations that are well documented. Josh linked that piece from Ta-Nehisi Coates earlier in the thread where he examined deeply discriminatory housing and education policy in the 20th century. 

 

None of this is new or hidden. You just have to be willing to listen to what reality is telling you.

[StrangeSox]

 

 

 

[pcq]

4 hours ago, pettie4sox said:

Gave me chills down my spine.  Thanks for sharing.  I'm also an AA male and I sometimes want to believe if I just do what white people do all will be well (aka the bootstrap myth).  It simply doesn't matter, they will always see us as inferior and I have come to accept that.  Racism today isn't at overt as it was back then but it's absolutely still running rampant in this country.  I sometimes forget about the black Wall Street in Tulsa and Rosewood.  Their destruction just proves that white people never wanted blacks to integrate, they just wanted black's free labor and to boot them out after building their "freedom utopia".  I am actually surprised they didn't just genocide the blacks after they were done with them.  I'm sure some wish they had. 

Like it or not there are many whites on your side and majority support among millennials. I cannot address your suspicions drawn from your own experience. There was also an oil rich tribe in OK that was exterminated. In Texas schools they describe slaves as migrant workers. It goes on.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, bigruss said:

So here's an example of institutional racism, I never heard of the Tulsa or Rosewood incidents.  I had no idea that a black community was building wealth in Tulsa in 1920.  This was for sure not included in any of my history classes, which were at a fantastic school system.  I'm ashamed I've never heard of these before today.

Did you know that in 1985 the city of Philadelphia literally dropped a bomb on one of its African American communities?

 

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/8/8/20747198/philadelphia-bombing-1985-move

[bigruss]

18 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Did you know that in 1985 the city of Philadelphia literally dropped a bomb on one of its African American communities?

 

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/8/8/20747198/philadelphia-bombing-1985-move

I only read that just a few days ago...another WTF moment in this country's history.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, Butter Parque said:

You make an argument that no one could ever debate. Basically saying that there's racism everywhere, but you just wont see it in front of your eyes doesn't do anything for anyone. Were you deprived of an education because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Were you deprived of a job because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Who was hired in your stead and please advise on the proof that the hiring manager is indeed a racist. Were you harassed by the police because you were black? if so, how do you know? As a white man, I was pulled over on a highway for having a parking permit hanging on my rear-view mirror. Maybe cops are just jerks? I was also pulled over (guns drawn) for driving around an area that is apparently known for "heavy drug activity". That was the reason provided to me. I was merely looking for a school where I had to take an exam the next morning. Again, cops can be jerks. 

https://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs/public/FH-NY-0024-0034.pdf
Well, we’ve literally got thousands of examples in housing/redlining.

We’ve got a ton of statistics in databases around the country on racial profiling and disproportionality in sentencing.

The discrepancy in penalties between crack and powdered forms of cocaine.

The Trail of Tears/Wounded Knee Massacre

The Chinese Exclusion Act

The Dred Scott Decision (or simply counting slaves as 3/5th’s of a person in the US Constitution)

Japanese-American Internment Camps like Manzanar during World War Two (particularly enjoy visiting all those German camps in the eastern half of the US.)

[Butter Parque]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you think public city schools offer the same quality of education that affluent suburban schools do?  Do you think growing up with one parent is just as effective for your long-term success as growing up with two?   Do you think it’s easier to get ahead in life if you come from money or poverty?

Generally, i think the public school system is awful in the US. What i learned in school didn't help in college. What i learned in college didn't help in the working world. Push through and make do.

Do I think growing up with one parent is just as effective for your long-term success as growing up with two? Hmmm, no I don't think so. Government statistics bare that out. It's why I've been reiterating on here time and time again that FAMILY is what separates the black community from their demographical peers. Perhaps having 5 kids with 3 dads is a bad idea...Perhaps having ANY kids when you have no education and you're already on public assistance is a bad idea...It's called personal responsibility. Sadly, the caucasians now seem to be adopting this suicidal practice. If you want your kid to have a legitimate chance at a quality life you should have a spouse and if needed, both should have careers before that kid becomes a thought. 

 

Do I think it's easier to get ahead in life if you come from money or poverty? Do you really need me to answer that? You know what stops the perpetual cycle of poverty? Two parents...placing an emphasis on education...raising those kids to be respectful to anyone they interact with...not allowing your 13 year old to be out at all hours of the night. All of those things can help in producing a child who's got a shot to make it in life. We all require some good luck and good timing at various moment sin or life, but if you have those pillars in place, your odds increase substantially.  

[caulfield12]

32 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

Generally, i think the public school system is awful in the US. What i learned in school didn't help in college. What i learned in college didn't help in the working world. Push through and make do.

Do I think growing up with one parent is just as effective for your long-term success as growing up with two? Hmmm, no I don't think so. Government statistics bare that out. It's why I've been reiterating on here time and time again that FAMILY is what separates the black community from their demographical peers. Perhaps having 5 kids with 3 dads is a bad idea...Perhaps having ANY kids when you have no education and you're already on public assistance is a bad idea...It's called personal responsibility. Sadly, the caucasians now seem to be adopting this suicidal practice. If you want your kid to have a legitimate chance at a quality life you should have a spouse and if needed, both should have careers before that kid becomes a thought. 

 

Do I think it's easier to get ahead in life if you come from money or poverty? Do you really need me to answer that? You know what stops the perpetual cycle of poverty? Two parents...placing an emphasis on education...raising those kids to be respectful to anyone they interact with...not allowing your 13 year old to be out at all hours of the night. All of those things can help in producing a child who's got a shot to make it in life. We all require some good luck and good timing at various moment sin or life, but if you have those pillars in place, your odds increase substantially.  

https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race#detailed/1/any/false/37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133,38/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431
 

The data (single parent households by ethnicity) hasn’t changed much in the last decade.   White single mothers remaining at 24%.  For all ethnic groups, +/- 2%, basically.

There are many other factors at play, but this is where you see a strong correlation with standardized test scores (with Asian families far and away leading the pack).

That said, many Asian kids (both inside and outside the US) are subjected to both psychological and physical abuse (a few of my Vietnamese born students in Kansas City remarked that anything less than an A in math would result in a whipping)...and there’s certainly a much higher incidence of suicide as well, with heightened study pressure being cited as one of the primary factors.

 

And it’s easy to point out problems.  But what are the solutions?  It certainly won’t end up being “defund the police/let looters and lawlessness run free,” but that requires a much more sophisticated, nuanced conversation.  The problem here is that BOTH sides have to be willing to communicate and make compromises.   As soon as the President and leaders in the GOP (besides Mitt Romney standing alone) acknowledge there actually is a systemic societal problem, not just about policing, but massive wealth-economic inequality across the board, maybe there can be some forward progress.  Or they can continue to refuse to listen at their own electoral peril.

 

[southsider2k5]

54 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

Generally, i think the public school system is awful in the US. What i learned in school didn't help in college. What i learned in college didn't help in the working world. Push through and make do.

Do I think growing up with one parent is just as effective for your long-term success as growing up with two? Hmmm, no I don't think so. Government statistics bare that out. It's why I've been reiterating on here time and time again that FAMILY is what separates the black community from their demographical peers. Perhaps having 5 kids with 3 dads is a bad idea...Perhaps having ANY kids when you have no education and you're already on public assistance is a bad idea...It's called personal responsibility. Sadly, the caucasians now seem to be adopting this suicidal practice. If you want your kid to have a legitimate chance at a quality life you should have a spouse and if needed, both should have careers before that kid becomes a thought. 

 

Do I think it's easier to get ahead in life if you come from money or poverty? Do you really need me to answer that? You know what stops the perpetual cycle of poverty? Two parents...placing an emphasis on education...raising those kids to be respectful to anyone they interact with...not allowing your 13 year old to be out at all hours of the night. All of those things can help in producing a child who's got a shot to make it in life. We all require some good luck and good timing at various moment sin or life, but if you have those pillars in place, your odds increase substantially.  

And all of these are learned behavior. All of these have been institutionally reinforced by centuries of slavery, segregation,  redlining, school inequality,  policing policies that make black associated crimes worse than the white ones. This isn't a flaw of the system,  it was the intent.  Centuries of history have been set up to destroy black families. They don't have the same bootstraps to pull themselves up with because they were taken and given to someone else. 

Throwing in some stereotypical racial snide remarks should be a redflag here.

[Butter Parque]

32 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And all of these are learned behavior. All of these have been institutionally reinforced by centuries of slavery, segregation,  redlining, school inequality,  policing policies that make black associated crimes worse than the white ones. This isn't a flaw of the system,  it was the intent.  Centuries of history have been set up to destroy black families. They don't have the same bootstraps to pull themselves up with because they were taken and given to someone else. 

Throwing in some stereotypical racial snide remarks should be a redflag here.

Again, back to slavery...inequality...take no ownership of your own life. Blame everyone else for your problems. 
 

The other guy on here said he grew up in a nice area, went to a good school, achieved a master’s degree. Good for him. Is it a coincidence that he also said he had two parents in his household? Is it a stretch to assume that they placed a value on education?

No one believes that racism doesn’t exist. Racism exists in every country on earth and it will until the end of time. But that doesn’t mean that everyone is required to live a life of victimhood that ends with a prison sentence or a bullet to the head with a red flag in your back pocket. 
 

if you have parents who truly care about you having a better life than they did, you can certainly make it. 

[Quin]

18 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

Again, back to slavery...inequality...take no ownership of your own life. Blame everyone else for your problems. 
 

The other guy on here said he grew up in a nice area, went to a good school, achieved a master’s degree. Good for him. Is it a coincidence that he also said he had two parents in his household? Is it a stretch to assume that they placed a value on education?

No one believes that racism doesn’t exist. Racism exists in every country on earth and it will until the end of time. But that doesn’t mean that everyone is required to live a life of victimhood that ends with a prison sentence or a bullet to the head with a red flag in your back pocket. 
 

if you have parents who truly care about you having a better life than they did, you can certainly make it. 

So, why did you turn out the way you did?

[BigHurt3515]

Government can put as much money as they want into programs to help but at some point it is up to the people and community to change their ways as well to actually make a difference. Are all the gangs and drug dealers going to just decide to stop because of all the new government funding coming in? It has to be a two way street to help

[Butter Parque]

8 minutes ago, Quin said:

So, why did you turn out the way you did?

Well, they did force me to think for myself. It’s why you won’t see me kneeling or lying on the ground face down in some sort of Holocaust revival as radicals yell at me for the “privilege” of my genetic makeup. 

[southsider2k5]

25 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

Again, back to slavery...inequality...take no ownership of your own life. Blame everyone else for your problems. 
 

The other guy on here said he grew up in a nice area, went to a good school, achieved a master’s degree. Good for him. Is it a coincidence that he also said he had two parents in his household? Is it a stretch to assume that they placed a value on education?

No one believes that racism doesn’t exist. Racism exists in every country on earth and it will until the end of time. But that doesn’t mean that everyone is required to live a life of victimhood that ends with a prison sentence or a bullet to the head with a red flag in your back pocket. 
 

if you have parents who truly care about you having a better life than they did, you can certainly make it. 

The effects of the policies don't end when the policies end. You know that right.  People who couldn't get a good education due to school segregation don't get that opportunity back. The guys who got life in jail for crack possession,  while white guys who held coke walked don't get to raise their kids anymore.  Black people who don't get call backs for jobs because of black names on their resume, can't just make up those lost wages.

None of those things have anything to do with personal responsibility, yet are real factors in modern America all without your 5 kids with 3 daddies garbage factoring in. Leave your fantasy land and listen to people talk about what is like to still be black in America in 2020. This is not an equal race. 

[Quin]

22 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

Well, they did force me to think for myself. It’s why you won’t see me kneeling or lying on the ground face down in some sort of Holocaust revival as radicals yell at me for the “privilege” of my genetic makeup. 

Well, that's just not true.

If you thought for yourself, there's no way in hell you'd try and use "Holocaust revival" as a legitimate argument against a Jewish person, just because people want equal rights. That's asinine.

Additionally, if anything bad happened to you, it'd be your fault, because that's your personal responsibility. 

[Butter Parque]

23 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The effects of the policies don't end when the policies end. You know that right.  People who couldn't get a good education due to school segregation don't get that opportunity back. The guys who got life in jail for crack possession,  while white guys who held coke walked don't get to raise their kids anymore.  Black people who don't get call backs for jobs because of black names on their resume, can't just make up those lost wages.

None of those things have anything to do with personal responsibility, yet are real factors in modern America all without your 5 kids with 3 daddies garbage factoring in. Leave your fantasy land and listen to people talk about what is like to still be black in America in 2020. This is not an equal race. 

Yep. Blacks are exempt from personal responsibility. You treat them like they’re infants, yet I’m the racist one. Slavery occurred. Segregation occurred. So going forward, blacks get a pass. Well it’s worked out well for them.

 

so what Asians were thrown into concentration camps in the 20th century...They've largely made it in society because they’re privileged too. It doesn’t have anything to do with the stability of the family and the focus on academics. 

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

Well, that's just not true.

If you thought for yourself, there's no way in hell you'd try and use "Holocaust revival" as a legitimate argument against a Jewish person, just because people want equal rights. That's asinine.

Additionally, if anything bad happened to you, it'd be your fault, because that's your personal responsibility. 

If you want a holocaust analogy,  it would be akin to telling the Jews that lost everything in WW2 to go back where they came from and make due. That it was their personal responsibility to get over it.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Butter Parque said:

Yep. Blacks are exempt from personal responsibility. You treat them like they’re infants, yet I’m the racist one. Slavery occurred. Segregation occurred. So going forward, blacks get a pass. Well it’s worked out well for them.

 

so what Asians were thrown into concentration camps in the 20th century...They've largely made it in society because they’re privileged too. It doesn’t have anything to do with the stability of the family and the focus on academics. 

 

 

 

 

So if we are about to race, and I bust your knees with a bat, then scream GO, you'd be able to run a competitive race because of your level of personal responsibility?

[Butter Parque]

8 minutes ago, Quin said:

Well, that's just not true.

If you thought for yourself, there's no way in hell you'd try and use "Holocaust revival" as a legitimate argument against a Jewish person, just because people want equal rights. That's asinine.

Additionally, if anything bad happened to you, it'd be your fault, because that's your personal responsibility. 

We all have equal rights. It’s guilty whites who don’t believe so. 
 

And yeah, someone forcing me into submission...having me pledge allegiance to their warped views or else...kinda messed up. 

[caulfield12]

Since we’re on the subject of single parents and broken homes, two of our last four Presidents came from broken homes.

Bill Clinton’s biological father died in a car accident before he was born, and he was raised by his grandparents until the age of four...

Although he immediately assumed use of his stepfather's surname, it was not until Clinton turned 15^[12] that he formally adopted the surname Clinton as a gesture toward him.^[4]Clinton has described his stepfather as a gambler and an alcoholic who regularly abused his mother and half-brother, Roger Clinton Jr. He threatened his stepfather with violence multiple times to protect them.^[4][13]

 

Perhaps their backgrounds are what made them uniquely suited (empathy/vision) to win two consecutive terms, something not accomplished by a member of their party since FDR.  Without those formative life experiences, they arguably wouldn’t have succeeded to the degree that they did.

[Butter Parque]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you want a holocaust analogy,  it would be akin to telling the Jews that lost everything in WW2 to go back where they came from and make due. That it was their personal responsibility to get over it.

Again, where are my tax dollars going then? What is all that section 8 housing and all those EBT cards for? What about affirmative action? Or the government contracting for minority owned businesses? All that and you still see residents of Chicago blowing each other’s heads off like it’s a weekend routine. 
 

The Jews seem to be doing very well overall. 

[Butter Parque]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Since we’re on the subject of single parents and broken homes, two of our last four Presidents came from broken homes.

Bill Clinton’s biological father died in a car accident before he was born, and he was raised by his grandparents until the age of four...

Although he immediately assumed use of his stepfather's surname, it was not until Clinton turned 15^[12] that he formally adopted the surname Clinton as a gesture toward him.^[4]Clinton has described his stepfather as a gambler and an alcoholic who regularly abused his mother and half-brother, Roger Clinton Jr. He threatened his stepfather with violence multiple times to protect them.^[4][13]

 

Perhaps their backgrounds are what made them uniquely suited (empathy/vision) to win two consecutive terms, something not accomplished by a member of their party since FDR.  Without those formative life experiences, they arguably wouldn’t have succeeded to the degree that they did.

That’s great. Now pull up the data on a macro level. 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

Yep. Blacks are exempt from personal responsibility. You treat them like they’re infants, yet I’m the racist one. Slavery occurred. Segregation occurred. So going forward, blacks get a pass. Well it’s worked out well for them.

 

so what Asians were thrown into concentration camps in the 20th century...They've largely made it in society because they’re privileged too. It doesn’t have anything to do with the stability of the family and the focus on academics. 

 

 

 

 

Well, pretty much every Japanese-American from the western United States from 1942-1945.

 

[Butter Parque]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, pretty much every Japanese-American from the western United States from 1942-1945.

 

I know lol. That was my point. Somehow they left those camps and their descendants are not killing each other on street corners. 

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

Again, where are my tax dollars going then? What is all that section 8 housing and all those EBT cards for? What about affirmative action? Or the government contracting for minority owned businesses? All that and you still see residents of Chicago blowing each other’s heads off like it’s a weekend routine. 
 

The Jews seem to be doing very well overall. 

I thought George Soros was the boogeyman, as he’s somehow behind every worldwide conspiracy over the last 50 years?

The answer to your first question is subsidizing corporations and the richest individuals in America.

 

Social welfare includes things like Medicaid, SNAP (what used to be called food stamps), housing assistance, and home energy assistance. But it also includes things like unemployment and veteran’s benefits.

It’s challenging to get a hard number on what the US spends on social welfare programs because different reports include and exclude various programs.

Back in 2011, Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama released a report that included 83 different programs and clocked in the spending at $1.03 trillion. The CATO Institute published similar numbers the following year.

But both of those numbers include things like The Earned Income Tax Credit, which you have to work to earn. The clue is in the name for cripes sake, earned.  

They also include funding for Head Start programs. I know some programs can be abused, but I’m pretty sure Head Start is something we can all agree is a good thing. Education for little kids from low-income families is pretty hard to demonize.

If we separate those kinds of programs from things like SNAP and housing vouchers, the kind that some people seem to resent, the spending comes in at about $212 billion per year. That’s a lot, but it’s a lot less than $1 trillion.

https://www.listenmoneymatters.com/corporate-welfare/