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Leadoff Man going forward - TA or Robert?


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19 hours ago, SouthWallace said:

 

Isn't coming out and saying concretely that your previous lead off hitter will for sure be returning to lead off when he returns from injury the complete opposite of having "launched a lineup controversy"? Pretty sure he put the controversy to rest. 

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

For the record, I think I would look at something like this long term.

TA

Moncada

Robert

Abreu

Eloy

Grandal

EE

Mazara

Madrigal

The real positive is that there are many quality hitters so they can be moved around a little to account for inevitable slumps. The are very few overall "easy outs" except for slumps.

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The advantage of batting Anderson, Moncada, Abreu and Grandal at the top of the order is it keeps the pressure off Robert and Eloy, which is a key consideration at this point IMO. A year or two from now is a different story. This is still about '21 and beyond. Anything this year would just be gravy

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I started this thread and I will eat my own words.  This lineup is just different with TA up top.  

Hopefully by next season Robert has earned his way to 3, or at least into the heart of the order. 

Edited by SouthWallace
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18 hours ago, Vulture said:

The advantage of batting Anderson, Moncada, Abreu and Grandal at the top of the order is it keeps the pressure off Robert and Eloy, which is a key consideration at this point IMO. A year or two from now is a different story. This is still about '21 and beyond. Anything this year would just be gravy

I think the whole "pressure" argument is bullshit.. When I played baseball I had just as much pressure batting 5th as I did 9th.. I have to get the job done regardless.  That is a BS excuse to bat worse players higher.

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45 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I think the whole "pressure" argument is bullshit.. When I played baseball I had just as much pressure batting 5th as I did 9th.. I have to get the job done regardless.  That is a BS excuse to bat worse players higher.

Unless you were playing under a multimillion dollar contract with the expectations of being a savior of a floundering major sports franchise with deep roots in a major US city, a million lifelong fans most of them generational going back 100+ years, I'm not sure your experience is corrolary

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5 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Unless you were playing under a multimillion dollar contract with the expectations of being a savior of a floundering major sports franchise with deep roots in a major US city, a million lifelong fans most of them generational going back 100+ years, I'm not sure your experience is corrolary

I think people WAY underestimate the humanity of athletes.  They are subject to all of the same peeves, tics, and oddities that regular people are, but some how we think that changing little things don't have a ripple effect on the mentality of the athlete.  You will never convince me that where a guy hits in a line up doesn't get into the heads of some hitters.  Whether it is pressure, anger, resentment, pride or whatever there are guys who are going to internalize that into their mental state, and carry it with them on to the field.  Athletes are human.

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20 hours ago, SouthWallace said:

I started this thread and I will eat my own words.  This lineup is just different with TA up top.  

Hopefully by next season Robert has earned his way to 3, or at least into the heart of the order. 

I won't be eating my words until Ray Ray eats his words about Frankie Montas

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49 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Long term I want madrigal there, leadoff should be a guy with a good k/bb rate and both tim and robert aren't great in that department.

This year I want tim there, no great k/bb rate but very consistent contact quality.

Imagine having the problem of three great hitters in the leadoff spot. Has this team ever had that problem? Supplement that with 2-6 all being capable of driving in 100 runs or more and trying to figure that out as well. 

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Line up construction is overrated anyway. Lots of comments here "why is ricky batting jose 3rd..." but I played with a lineup construction tool and I used a lineup of all great hitters (350/500) except for two who I made really super bad (280/300) and made lineups those guys one and three and 8 and 9. 

The difference was 0.25 runs or 40 runs over 162=4 wins.

That is quite a bit but in reality examples are never that extreme (850 ops vs 580 and 8/9 vs 1/3 for the super bad guys) so realistically the worst lineups a mlb manager can create probably cost about a win per season.

Much more important than batting order is who is batting in that lineup...

https://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py?Player0=A&OBA0=+0.350&Slug0=+0.500&Player1=C&OBA1=+0.350&Slug1=+0.500&Player2=D&OBA2=+0.350&Slug2=+0.500&Player3=S&OBA3=+0.350&Slug3=+0.500&Player4=D&OBA4=+0.350&Slug4=+0.500&Player5=D&OBA5=+0.350&Slug5=+0.500&Player6=S&OBA6=+0.350&Slug6=+0.500&Player7=D&OBA7=+0.280&Slug7=+0.300&Player8=D&OBA8=+0.280&Slug8=+0.300&Model=0

 

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On 8/12/2020 at 4:04 PM, southsider2k5 said:

For the record, I think I would look at something like this long term.

TA

Moncada

Robert

Abreu

Eloy

Grandal

EE

Mazara

Madrigal

I would flip Eloy and Grandal just to break the right-handed hitters 3-5.

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19 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Tim worked Boyd like a puppet.  That was one of the coolest lead off ABs I’ve ever seen.  I don’t think Robert can do that yet- he needs to see all the pitchers for a couple years and learn

TA is the leadoff guy.  He's proving he's a legit 300+ batter and at that rate it doesn't really matter too much how many walks he takes as long as it's not zero..  He's up there pissing off the starter and more often than not hitting the ball hard.

 

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2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

TA is the leadoff guy.  He's proving he's a legit 300+ batter and at that rate it doesn't really matter too much how many walks he takes as long as it's not zero..  He's up there pissing off the starter and more often than not hitting the ball hard.

 

Yep.  I wish his job was to see 10 pitches leading off every game. 
 

And all that pissing off the starters is going to get him on base an extra 10 times a year from just getting plunked. 
 

He’s the right guy to get the most ABs IMO

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Oh for so many years we had none, now we have two, possibly three. The real beauty here is Lois could go anywhere in the lineup and be the best at that spot. As someone mentioned the manger has an option here to hide a slumping hitter, a luxury that hasn't been available for a while. I know I loved batting 2nd in the order instead of 7th or 8th. I knew I would be seeing a pitch in the first inning and have a chance to contribute right away. I also knew my strengths fit in well to that spot. Low K rate, high walks, excellent bunting, could move a runner, make contact on a hit and run, and absolutely zero power. I'm certain most MLB players have that same feeling you just fit somewhere and expect what is expected from that position. 

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