Accountability Starts Monday, August 10th, 2020

[caulfield12]

Says Dallas Keuchel...

White Sox record, 8-9, three game losing streak

 

CURRENT Playoff Odds (FG)   

6.  Astros  79.1

7.  White Sox  65.2

8.  Tigers 37.8

9.  Red Sox  36.6

10.  Angels  33.9

11.  Blue Jays  24.3

12.  Rangers 21.5

 

Interestingly enough, it was exactly 4 years and 3 months since the infamous May 10th Massacre in Texas, 13-11, when the White Sox were 23-10 and leading the ALCD.

https://www.southsidesox.com/2016/8/20/12567556/fortunes-changed-one-crazy-night-in-arlington-sent-the-white-sox-and

 

This thread is all about comments/leadership from teammates (like tonight from Dallas) setting expectations/tone for a winning, playoff baseball culture.

So anything related to managers, coaches, JR, KW, RH, etc.

Just want to kind of keep an eye on this and see how things turn out from this point onwards, especially with Tim Anderson also coming back to the team tomorrow.

Normally, team meetings and "calling out teammates" doesn't work out that well, at least historically.

Time will tell whether it lights a fire under them or not.

 

Obviously, with all the injuries, it's not going to be an EASY road, but we're still, at least at this juncture of the season, in the driver's seat for one of the final two playoff spots in the field.

Anything outside that would be mighty disappointing.   With just 5 from each league, not making it would have been understandable.   But that's no longer the case.

Edited August 11, 2020 by caulfield12

[NWINFan]

I didn't see the August 10th game so I don't know what prompted Keuchel to come out like this. Maybe he was pissed that he had another good start without a win. I do know when teams don't hit, they look flat.

I recall a Tribune story back in 2013 when the team had really gone south. Several board members were interviewed and they basically said they left everything to JR. Now they were older, financially secure, and if they weren't losing money from their investment in the White Sox, they didn't care too much about the win-loss record. But their statements left the impression few in the organization cared that the team was its way to its worst season in 43 years. Not the best PR in the world.

Things start at the top, but I truly don't know what JR's mindset is. The team just got done with a terrible decade, but Williams and Hahn are still here. So is Renteria, Cooper, Boston and others. Right now, I don't know if anyone knows what a winning baseball culture is.

We fans haven't had expectations lately because of the rebuild. That excuse can't be used anymore. Seven straight losing seasons is enough. It is not too much to ask to play slightly over .500 for 60 games.

 

[caulfield12]

And just think, that 2013 "malaise" was coming off a near playoff appearance in a season where they led the division a good percentage of the year until finishing something like 4-11 the last 15 games of the season and being overtaken by the Tigers.

At least the general mood heading into 2013 was a positive one.  Of course, little did we know Jeff Keppinger would be the first of many misfires.

 

I made a joke in the gamethread about bringing in one of the Cuban National Baseball Team coaches, but it seems like they're close to needing to do something to shake things up.

They get another 7-10 days with Tim Anderson back, but if they continue to stumble and it looks like they're blowing their playoff shot, then they seriously need to reassess whether these coaches and Rick Hahn are the right guys to make the final "finishing touch" moves to complete the rebuild.

Neither Renteria nor Hahn has been an integral part of setting a winning culture while in charge of an entire organization as field manager or as GM...that's concerning enough.

There was just no sense of it being a playoff type game last night.   You could clearly see that the players were just not giving it their all, except for Keuchel, McCann, Engel, Mendick, maybe a couple more exceptions.   Everyone looked like they were in a stupor, or sleep-walking around out there in slow motion.    Even if you're the most talented team in baseball, you still need to push yourself to improve and treat each and every opponent with respect.   Maybe the accolades provided by overwhelmingly positive early media coverage of the offense and guys like Robert, Moncada and Jimenez got to their heads a little bit, no idea.

It has definitely seemed like our season completely fell off the rails when Jimenez fell over the wall into the netting and couldn't extricate himself quickly enough to prevent Yelich from scoring on an inside-the-parker.

 

Something needs to change, and it has to happen in the next 2-3 weeks.   We can't just wait around for Madrigal or even Tim Anderson to BRING that change from the bottom-up, it has to come from the top-down as well, in CONCERT.

[JoshPR]

The whole staff needs to go. The Sox need a new mentality a new focus. Not this complacency shit

[poppysox]

The loss of Anderson and Madrigal has been felt big time.  Aside from statistics...they are two of our high energy guys.  It matters.

[JoshPR]

27 minutes ago, poppysox said:

The loss of Anderson and Madrigal has been felt big time.  Aside from statistics...they are two of our high energy guys.  It matters.

It does. But as Dallas said a lot of the Atbats have been terrible.

[soxfan49]

3 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

It does. But as Dallas said a lot of the Atbats have been terrible.

He isn't wrong. Every now and again, Grandal and Abreu have good approaches. Moncada, Mendick and McCann have been fine, too. The rest? Horseshit

[SCCWS]

6 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

He isn't wrong. Every now and again, Grandal and Abreu have good approaches. Moncada, Mendick and McCann have been fine, too. The rest? Horseshit

Robert has also been fine considering it is his first moth.  Leury is a career( 7 years) .257 hitter batting .271.  I think Eloy, Grandal and EE have provided limited offensive support and TA has been hurt. 

[hogan873]

I'm glad Keuchel called the team out.  I wasn't able to watch the game since my power was out, but I saw enough over the last few days to see that this team is flat.  No energy and it seems like they just don't care.  I hope this lights a fire under their asses.

I will agree, though, that Anderson and Madrigal being out has hurt, as they are high energy guys.

This team looks so good on paper, and they've been playing like shit for the most part.  The leadership, or lack thereof, is certainly a cause.

[SonofaRoache]

DK is doing our manager's job. Renteria was great for the rebuild but he is not a championship caliber manager. I don't like to nitpick everything a manager does, but there are too many mistakes he makes that the average fan wouldn't. He seems to be here because he is a friend for the players and someone who makes them feel comfortable with US baseball. That's fine, but someone needs to tell this man how to correctly do his job if the plan is to keep him. 

[Harry Chappas]

Detroit will make the playoffs the Sox won't and Hahn will blame injuries, short season and youth. 

There are numerous at-bats that are just terrible every game where a pitcher does not throw a strike and gets an out or worse a strike out.

Yesterday on a 2-0 count Moncada swung at a ball 3 inches off the inside corner and grounded out weakly to third.  I do not know if that is player development or what but we have 7 guys in the lineup daily that do that.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Missing the swagger of Kopech on the mound also has had a huge impact.

If he was pitching like a Wheeler right now for us and flashing TOR stuff, there wouldn't be so much concern.

Now, with what amounts to a 3 year layoff, there's a legitimate debate that he might never return to previous form, for a number of reasons, both personal/psychological and physical.

[ChiSox1917]

18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Missing the swagger of Kopech on the mound also has had a huge impact.

If he was pitching like a Wheeler right now for us and flashing TOR stuff, there wouldn't be so much concern.

Now, with what amounts to a 3 year layoff, there's a legitimate debate that he might never return to previous form, for a number of reasons, both personal/psychological and physical.

Kopech hasnt done a thing at the major league level.  

[WBWSF]

Former Mets manager Gil Hodges  said "Losings not funny, its a sickness". This is another sick looking White Sox team. This looks like this will be the 8th losing season in a row. The team is one game ahead of last place Kansas City. I really don't think JR cares about winning as long as the team is making money. Forbes magazine said that the 2018 White Sox (A team that lost 100 games) were the 6th most profitable team in MLB. Forbes hasn't come out with the 2019 totals but I would assume the team made some big money in 2019 also. Hahn has to have one of the best jobs in MLB. His teams lose year after year and he keeps his job. He would have been fired years ago with most other MLB teams. This past off season is looking more and more like a bust. Other than Keuchel every other player Hahn has brought in here hasn't done well. I noticed today that Fernando Tatis Jr and Frankie Montas were  named the players of the week in there leagues. Hahn traded both of them. Hahn isn't being held accountable and i find that amzaing. He should thank god every day he still has a job.

[joejoesox]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

DK is doing our manager's job. Renteria was great for the rebuild but he is not a championship caliber manager. I don't like to nitpick everything a manager does, but there are too many mistakes he makes that the average fan wouldn't. He seems to be here because he is a friend for the players and someone who makes them feel comfortable with US baseball. That's fine, but someone needs to tell this man how to correctly do his job if the plan is to keep him. 

Renteria is qualified enough to be a bench coach, that's about it

[fathom]

This is a great tweet

https://mobile.twitter.com/Imyellinganyway/status/1293169235066224640

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, fathom said:

This is a great tweet

https://mobile.twitter.com/Imyellinganyway/status/1293169235066224640

Kippers for Breakfast Aunt Helga?

 

@Imyellinganyway

 

“Keuchel's comments after the game are so concerning, he's coming from two of the most forward-thinking organizations (cheating aside w/ the Astros) and its taken him like a month to see what a shitshow we're running here. Don't think this team can ever eclipse mediocre with Hahn.“

Points for creativity with those two monikers...especially the first.   Kippers?   Too funny.    Sounds like ingredients for Ted Danson Celebrity Sandwich on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[Butter Parque]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

And just think, that 2013 "malaise" was coming off a near playoff appearance in a season where they led the division a good percentage of the year until finishing something like 4-11 the last 15 games of the season and being overtaken by the Tigers.

At least the general mood heading into 2013 was a positive one.  Of course, little did we know Jeff Keppinger would be the first of many misfires.

 

I made a joke in the gamethread about bringing in one of the Cuban National Baseball Team coaches, but it seems like they're close to needing to do something to shake things up.

They get another 7-10 days with Tim Anderson back, but if they continue to stumble and it looks like they're blowing their playoff shot, then they seriously need to reassess whether these coaches and Rick Hahn are the right guys to make the final "finishing touch" moves to complete the rebuild.

Neither Renteria nor Hahn has been an integral part of setting a winning culture while in charge of an entire organization as field manager or as GM...that's concerning enough.

There was just no sense of it being a playoff type game last night.   You could clearly see that the players were just not giving it their all, except for Keuchel, McCann, Engel, Mendick, maybe a couple more exceptions.   Everyone looked like they were in a stupor, or sleep-walking around out there in slow motion.    Even if you're the most talented team in baseball, you still need to push yourself to improve and treat each and every opponent with respect.   Maybe the accolades provided by overwhelmingly positive early media coverage of the offense and guys like Robert, Moncada and Jimenez got to their heads a little bit, no idea.

It has definitely seemed like our season completely fell off the rails when Jimenez fell over the wall into the netting and couldn't extricate himself quickly enough to prevent Yelich from scoring on an inside-the-parker.

 

Something needs to change, and it has to happen in the next 2-3 weeks.   We can't just wait around for Madrigal or even Tim Anderson to BRING that change from the bottom-up, it has to come from the top-down as well, in CONCERT.

I agree, but I just believe the organization needs to be overhauled from soup to nuts. If you want your hitters to come up to the major leagues with a better approach at the plate, it starts with your player development staff in the minor leagues. From the DSL through AAA. It doesn't seem like plate discipline is taken seriously within the organization. It's one thing to draft guys who don't have plate discipline, but it is another thing to watch as players never improve their plate discipline as they matriculate through the minor leagues. Guys like Anderson, Leury, Robert, Engel, Madrigal, and Eloy have all passed through the White Sox minor league system, and I wouldn't consider any of them to have a plus batting eye. Tim Anderson won the batting title last year. I can;t imagine that pitchers are looking to throw an excess of pitches in the zone against him. Just imagine him walking at 6-7 % with his speed on the basepaths. 

 

So yes, get rid of the manager and the coaches. No issue there. But a lot more than that needs to be overhauled before we can say this organization is moving in the direction of teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Astros, Twins, Brewers. 

 

Why is this organization going out and acquiring corner outfielders coming off 6% BB rate seasons?

Edited August 11, 2020 by Butter Parque

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

27 minutes ago, fathom said:

This is a great tweet

https://mobile.twitter.com/Imyellinganyway/status/1293169235066224640

Keuchel called out his teams effort publicly to the media but never called out his teams cheating; in fact, he called out Fiers a little bit. 

Keuchel is the last guy who should be speaking up.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 hours ago, poppysox said:

The loss of Anderson and Madrigal has been felt big time.  Aside from statistics...they are two of our high energy guys.  It matters. he is the heart of the team

FTFY

[flavum]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Keuchel called out his teams effort publicly to the media but never called out his teams cheating; in fact, he called out Fiers a little bit. 

Keuchel is the last guy who should be speaking up.

Give me a break. He’s a veteran pitcher on a young team. He has the right to say whatever he wants.

[wegner]

Losing is a disease... ...as contagious as syphilis. Losing is a disease... ...as contagious as bubonic plague... ... attacking one... ... but infecting all. But curable.

[caulfield12]

Now Keuchel can't ever speak up, because..."he who is without sin may cast the first stone" is the argument?

I mean, it's not like Dallas was a hitter, or orchestrated the scheme, or was a part of the front office braintrust that was always looking to exploit any little niche advantage.  It's not like he was using a spitball, or nail file, or KY Jelly on the ball.

If we're going to condemn him for the rest of his life and disallow him to speak his mind, then we never should have accquired him in the first place.   We're not attempting to enter the gates of heaven, after all, we're simply looking for leadership that will finally GET us to the playoffs and maybe even use those past experiences to his benefit when such a situation eventually arises.

Purity tests?  Really?

Maybe we should just recruit a bunch of baseballin' monks from the Sisters of the Poor in Kolkata, India...

Edited August 11, 2020 by caulfield12

[poppysox]

17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

FTFY

I didn't require a fix.

 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

I didn't require a fix.

 

We're all going to require a fix if this keeps up for another 7-10 days with no light at the end of the tunnel in sight.