What should the Sox do with James McCann?

[tray]

Unless the Sox trade McCann AND Grandal, Collins has no chance of being the starting catcher on the WSox, at least not  until he is about 30 years old. 

From Collins  perspective, maybe a trade to a team where he could start  now or next season would be the best option.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Why are you making excuses for the organization to have gone through two winters with a glaring need in RF and to not address it with anything more than “stopgap” Mazara? Why are they turning a blind eye to a position that has haunted the team for 2+ seasons now? And by the way, despite the huge bust that Wellington was the Sox have pretty much rated league average at catcher by WAR over the two seasons leading up to this one. You don’t want to look up how they’ve rated in RF.

JFC.  I am not making excuses for the organization.  I just said I was disappointed in the Mazara acquisition in the comment you were quoting. I knew he wasn't a long term solution.  I was a huge proponent of going after somone like Nimmo instead.

The Phils Harper to a $330M a year and half ago.  Would he look great in RF on a 15 year $350M+ contract?  Yeah, he would.  But I've moved on.  There were no good RF FA options last offseason.  They were all horseshit fits - so rather than jamming a square peg into a round hole with someone like Castellanos, they acquired Mazara in hopes of finding something with a guy that was still just 24 years old and was a former elite prospect.  

It doesn't appear the Mazara experiment is going to work out, but the strategy behind the move was fine when considering the other options.  So long as they move on after this season and actually plug RF with a legitimate player as we move into our real contention window - ideally one that plays good defensive, is a lefty or switch hitter and one that gets on base - I am OK with it.    

 

[ChiSox59]

8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I fully agree Mazara sucks but what better options do the Sox have? Unlike RF, the Sox have another viable option at catcher.

Yet you say the Sox should have spent the Grandal money on a RF in FA that didn't exist. You've yet to explain how you would have better spent that $73M, and how  you then fill the catcher position moving forward once McCann is a FA following 2020, other than suggesting Castellanos who is a just a terrible fit for this roster.  

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

13 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yet you say the Sox should have spent the Grandal money on a RF in FA that didn't exist. You've yet to explain how you would have better spent that $73M, and how  you then fill the catcher position moving forward once McCann is a FA following 2020, other than suggesting Castellanos who is a just a terrible fit for this roster.  

Yea, Castellanos and his 158 wRC+ and 0.9 fWAR this season would be such a terrible fit for this roster.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

And I’ve already explained this but I’ll say it again. I was a proponent of extending McCann last year and then signing Castellanos to play RF. My position is quite simple really. Obv that ship has sailed but it still irritates me, much like the Sox missing on Harper the winter before still pisses me off.

[greg775]

41 minutes ago, tray said:

Unless the Sox trade McCann AND Grandal, Collins has no chance of being the starting catcher on the WSox, at least not  until he is about 30 years old. 

From Collins  perspective, maybe a trade to a team where he could start  now or next season would be the best option.

That's a good point. Could Collins play RF? I think he passes the eye test as a hitter. I hope he doesn't have to wait forever to be a starter. These are the type of guys you trade when you have a Grandal. However ... it could bite you if he emerges as a perennial All-Star.

Edited August 21, 2020 by greg775

[SonofaRoache]

55 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yes that's true and I already addressed that when another poster answered in your defense.

HOWEVER, I think we would all be happy if Mazara was the same guy against RH pitching he has always been, which he also has a track record of. The hope with Mazara was that he would take a step forward not a step back. Both taking a step back for either one didnt seem likely given both track records.

The problem with this is that Mazara has most seen right handed pitching before he came aboard. He was a 0 WAR caliber player all in all. So his solid output facing righties was negated by his weaknesses. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I fully agree Mazara sucks but what better options do the Sox have? Unlike RF, the Sox have another viable option at catcher.

Hopefully Yoeklis Cespedes by 2022, but if not they need to find a long-term solution.  I think the Sox probably went the cheap route with Mazara in hopes that one of the Basabe, Adolfo, Rutherford, etc. would break out and present themselves as an option by 2022.  With COVID halting minor league seasons and the rest of the core looking ready to go, they can’t wait on those guys any longer.  They need a long-term solve and short a potential prospect like Cespedes, said player will need to come from outside the organization.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Then there is this  basic point.  The Grandal and McCann tandem has been working perfectly.

If it ain't broke, why fix it?

Because McCann is free agent after this season and will actually have a say on how much playing time he’d like to receive?  Plus what team has ever committed $28M+ to two catchers?  With McCann’s lower salary this year plus the core still being really cheap it works for now, but long-term we’ll need those funds used elsewhere.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Unless the Sox trade McCann AND Grandal, Collins has no chance of being the starting catcher on the WSox, at least not  until he is about 30 years old. 

From Collins  perspective, maybe a trade to a team where he could start  now or next season would be the best option.

Lol...why do we care about Collins’ perspective?

[Perfect Vision]

37 minutes ago, greg775 said:

That's a good point. Could Collins play RF? I think he passes the eye test as a hitter. I hope he doesn't have to wait forever to be a starter. These are the type of guys you trade when you have a Grandal. However ... it could bite you if he emerges as a perennial All-Star.

I have zero problem with the Sox keeping Collins as a back up/part time player for the next few years and then, possibly, making him the starter when Grandal's contract is up.  Collins has always been a solid prospect, but he simply never developed into the type of great prospect that you have to find a way to get in your lineup every day.  He's just not good enough.  He's the equivalent of a Danny Mendick - a guy who serves a role, plays occasionally, can play every day in the event of injury, who can go back and forth between AAA and the big club, and you give no consideration of service time for.  With that said, I wouldn't want to see him traded, because then McCann leaves in free agency, Grandal strains an oblique in April next year, and the Sox have some organizational scrub catching for them every day in 2021.

[SonofaRoache]

No McCann next year we need to get over it. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by SonofaRoache

[ChiSox59]

3 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yea, Castellanos and his 158 wRC+ and 0.9 fWAR this season would be such a terrible fit for this roster.

You love SSS, and hate defense, line up balance and OBP. 

[caulfield12]

Or we could have just stuck with Avi and his 1.6-2.4 fWAR range.

The biggest concern there, a potential collision with Robert in RCF.

[tray]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol...why do we care about Collins’ perspective?

We all should care about other people.  In the past, the Sox organization have signed players based on personal ties to the organization or loyalty.

Beyond that, the decision boils down to this:  Will the Sox be better next season with McCann or without him ?

If the answer is that they team will be better with him, then I think a reasonable extension should be pursued. The Sox are in their window of contention right now so reasonable money should be spent whenever it makes the team better or guarantees against an injury to a starting player. 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by tray

[Two-Gun Pete]

7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Hopefully Yoeklis Cespedes by 2022, but if not they need to find a long-term solution.  I think the Sox probably went the cheap route with Mazara in hopes that one of the Basabe, Adolfo, Rutherford, etc. would break out...

They could have signed Puig to be a bridge to Basabe, Adolfo, or Cespedes, but speeding tickets or something.

And again, I still believe that Puig could provide more fWAR and competence in the OF than any acquirable RFer then or now. (Not that I think he's great, but +1.0 to +2.0 fWAR >>> anything Mazara can bring to the table.) Hell, they could sign him right now, but that simply won't happen.

I never liked the Mazara signing because he's a platoon hitter who sucks out loud at fielding, and can't run at all. Defensively, he's a DH who can't actually hit enough to justify his existence in a roster thats already loaded with DHs with gloves.

 

Given that JR saw fit to b**** about (GASP!) losing money during a pandemic, I worry about them trimming payroll this offseason. Ya know, cuz the world owes them a profit everyfvkcing year or something. I worry less about them spending on McCann or any other FA player this offseason. We'll see...

[southsider2k5]

I see the Boomer crowd is up past their bed time and cranky.

[gusguyman]

40 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

They could have signed Puig to be a bridge to Basabe, Adolfo, or Cespedes, but speeding tickets or something.

And again, I still believe that Puig could provide more fWAR and competence in the OF than any acquirable RFer then or now. (Not that I think he's great, but +1.0 to +2.0 fWAR >>> anything Mazara can bring to the table.) Hell, they could sign him right now, but that simply won't happen.

I never liked the Mazara signing because he's a platoon hitter who sucks out loud at fielding, and can't run at all. Defensively, he's a DH who can't actually hit enough to justify his existence in a roster thats already loaded with DHs with gloves.

 

Given that JR saw fit to b**** about (GASP!) losing money during a pandemic, I worry about them trimming payroll this offseason. Ya know, cuz the world owes them a profit everyfvkcing year or something. I worry less about them spending on McCann or any other FA player this offseason. We'll see...

Dude, how are you possibly in this bad of mood tonight? I'm as anti-owner as they come, fuck the billies, but tonight is a wonderful night, chill and enjoy it. Reinsdorf will still be there as a punching bag tomorrow. 

[Green Line]

Resign McCann.  Attempt to trade Grandal now, and if not, release!  We cannot pass up on the best Sox catcher since the 90s.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Green Line said:

Resign McCann.  Attempt to trade Grandal now, and if not, release!  We cannot pass up on the best Sox catcher since the 90s.

Grandal is a star. Now that Sox got him, enjoy him. That bomb tonight was legendary. BAM. McCann is great too, but he's no Grandal.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Or we could have just stuck with Avi and his 1.6-2.4 fWAR range.

The biggest concern there, a potential collision with Robert in RCF.

You do love your collision talk. Everybody past and present is going to take out Robert in train wreck collision !!

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Green Line said:

Resign McCann.  Attempt to trade Grandal now, and if not, release!  We cannot pass up on the best Sox catcher since the 90s.

Wait you would release Grandal ?

That's beyond insane. Have you been doing green lines ?

[joejoesox]

They should release EE and just play McCann and Grandal every day.  

[Chicago White Sox]

6 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

They could have signed Puig to be a bridge to Basabe, Adolfo, or Cespedes, but speeding tickets or something.

And again, I still believe that Puig could provide more fWAR and competence in the OF than any acquirable RFer then or now. (Not that I think he's great, but +1.0 to +2.0 fWAR >>> anything Mazara can bring to the table.) Hell, they could sign him right now, but that simply won't happen.

I never liked the Mazara signing because he's a platoon hitter who sucks out loud at fielding, and can't run at all. Defensively, he's a DH who can't actually hit enough to justify his existence in a roster thats already loaded with DHs with gloves.

 

Given that JR saw fit to b**** about (GASP!) losing money during a pandemic, I worry about them trimming payroll this offseason. Ya know, cuz the world owes them a profit everyfvkcing year or something. I worry less about them spending on McCann or any other FA player this offseason. We'll see...

Puig is not the answer.  This offense is rolling right now and there is no need to introduce that cancer into the mix.  Plus he had COVID so who knows what kind of physical shape he’s in as some guys have claimed they’ve had lingering issues affect their performance this year.

[Two-Gun Pete]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Puig is not the answer.  This offense is rolling right now and there is no need to introduce that cancer into the mix.  Plus he had COVID so who knows what kind of physical shape he’s in as some guys have claimed they’ve had lingering issues affect their performance this year.

If you're worried about one guy out of 28 being a "cancer," then I submit that your leadership are incompetent. As an aside, both Abreu and Grandal have vouched for him.

 

I'm not concerned about the offense, because it's been fine, even with Mazara in it. I'm concerned that the outfield defense has blundered its way into surrendering 2 inside the park HRs already. Pretty much all of the recent WS winning teams catch the ball in the OF.

 

It doesn't matter, though. Mazara will be here, because of KW's/RH's egos. And speeding tickets.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete