What should the Sox do with James McCann?

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Our best hitter? With a batting champion,  multiple time silver slugger, plus Eloy and Robert that is a big ask.

Vaugh has that type of offensive ceiling.  He’s going to hit for both power & average while also drawing a ton of walks.  He’s literally a complete hitter.

[poppysox]

4 hours ago, steveno89 said:

I love McCann, but I think he will get a multi year offer for starting catcher money this offseason from another club. How much money can the Sox sink into the catcher position as well? 

As for Vaughn, you absolutely do not trade him at this stage. Encarnacion is gone after this season, and replacing him in house with Vaughn would free up roughly $11 million in payroll. Vaughn is viewed as the long term answer at 1B for the Sox and should be MLB ready early 2021. 

I don't think sinking approximately 20 million per year into the two catchers/DH's is so prohibitive.  Many on this board were willing to sink 30 million per year into one right fielder.  Catcher is a much more important position than right field IMO.

[Stinky Stanky]

McCann will tell us what he will do with us, not the other way around as you all are seeing it.  And that's go to another team where he's the man, whether we like it or not.  He's an All-Star catcher, remember?  Just my $.02.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, poppysox said:

I don't think sinking approximately 20 million per year into the two catchers/DH's is so prohibitive.  Many on this board were willing to sink 30 million per year into one right fielder.  Catcher is a much more important position than right field IMO.

Unless you think McCann is getting ~$2.5M/year, you’re really looking at sometime $30M for him & Grandal.  Even if we pushed our payroll up to $140M that would reflect +20% of our total resources being committed to those two guys.  I seriously doubt that will happen.

[kitekrazy]

 It's so odd when a team's strength at catcher.   

[poppysox]

6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Unless you think McCann is getting ~$2.5M/year, you’re really looking at sometime $30M for him & Grandal.  Even if we pushed our payroll up to $140M that would reflect +20% of our total resources being committed to those two guys.  I seriously doubt that will happen.

Grandal is paid 16 million and McCann will get whatever.  If it turned out to be 30 (which I doubt) the role of catcher/DH is more key than RF is the point.

[hogan873]

As someone else pointed out, this team went years with the catcher position being a black hole.  After Pierzynski, the Sox used Castillo, Narvaez, Smith, Flowers, Soto, Navarro, Sanchez, Brantly, Phegley, Gonzalez, and Anderson.  And I think we all remember that track record.  Now they have one of the best catching duos in the league.  McCann is showing that last year may not have been a fluke, and he's incredibly valuable at calling games.  I don't know what the Sox will do with McCann, but I can't imagine they won't try hard to re-sign him.  They may end up over-paying him, at least in comparison to what another team may be willing to spend.  But he'll probably be worth it to this team.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

15 hours ago, Perfect Vision said:

Vaughn is great.  I think he's a huge part of the future.  But you think the Sox are going to have Vaughn skip AA and AAA entirely next year??  That's a huge stretch and would potentially set him up to struggle in MLB and be sent down.

You're naive if you think he won't progress in Schaumburg this whole year with major leaguers and AAA guys.

[Perfect Vision]

17 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

You're naive if you think he won't progress in Schaumburg this whole year with major leaguers and AAA guys.

Naive?  Lol.  I never said he won't progress.   What's naive is thinking the Schaumburg experience is equivalent to real game experience.

[he gone.]

will unpack a few points here:

 

Vaughn - I know it's not official games, but count this as the year in the minors the Sox wanted out of Vaughn. If there was a need/hole open this year I suspect he would have got his chance. When the Sox are in win mode they move their guys up ... i.e. Sale. Expect him on the team next year in early May or June depending on service time stuff. 

 

McCann - I have been dead wrong on this guy. I even said, why spend $5mm on him in the offseason, we have formidable catchers who can play 1-2 games a week behind him + EE. I was completely wrong. I actually think maybe he found a later career revival and is a solid, solid starter. That being said, we have Grandal, and although he's Gio's guy, if Gio is a true Ace it won't matter the guy catching (let alone he'd have Grandal, one of the best). I realize he's bigger part of this team and we're contending for whatever prize you call this year, but if you can get a return on him do it. otherwise, more of an NBA move, but would love a sign and trade in the offseason. Simply put, you need to get something back in return for him. 

 

If not? Then you need to explore trading Collins - but to me the rate of return on a McCann is probably pretty nice when compared to Collins & if Vaughn does his job then you're missing a good opportunity to get value because there's not going to be many AB's for McCann's role outside of injuries. 

 

Unpopular opinion - but keep your eye on the prize - winning the "world series" is unlikely this year, plus were probably humming along at like 40% potential right now of what we'll be in 2 years during the 2022 season. if you can get a nice arm that can slot into the bullpen in the future, then that's the move. 

 

[NotHahn]

There are some teams (SD & TB) who desperately need an upgrade at catcher. McCann could be a valuable trade piece. Maybe a top 100 prospect if they are desperate enough.

Then bring up Mercedes to see if he what he can do. If it doesn't work out you can always resign McCann in the offseason.

[hi8is]

2 minutes ago, NotHahn said:

There are some teams (SD & TB) who desperately need an upgrade at catcher. McCann could be a valuable trade piece. Maybe a top 100 prospect if they are desperate enough.

Then bring up Mercedes to see if he what he can do. If it doesn't work out you can always resign McCann in the offseason.

This is hysterical.

[Jerksticks]

41 minutes ago, NotHahn said:

There are some teams (SD & TB) who desperately need an upgrade at catcher. McCann could be a valuable trade piece. Maybe a top 100 prospect if they are desperate enough.

Then bring up Mercedes to see if he what he can do. If it doesn't work out you can always resign McCann in the offseason.

I believe you when you say you are NOT Hahn.  

[elrockinMT]

1 hour ago, hi8is said:

This is hysterical.

I am still laughing

[South Side Hit Men]

With the COVID situation likely persisting into 2021 and beyond, it will work in the White Sox favor to be able to reach agreement with McCann on a reasonable deal if he wants to return. I envision free agent demand this year to be worse this off-season than the several years of collusion (1980s, past few seasons) conducted under normal financial times. That said, McCann may want to walk even if the Sox match/exceed other offers.

Right now, there are six starters for three positions (DH/C/1B) with McCann, Grandal, Abreu, Vaughn, Parrot and Jimenez (not a ML OFer).  McCann's defense and pitcher management is very valuable. Assuming Eloy continues in LF and they let EE walk, it's tenable to carry the remaining five and use EE $ for a RF and/or pitching.

Edited September 1, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[joejoesox]

Not paying McCann, even more than he might be worth, would be a really bad mistake.  Very few players you can look at and say they just add something intangible to this team, hes one of those kinds of players

Fangraphs

Grandal: 111 PA - 0.7 WAR

McCann: 61 PA - 0.9 WAR

Baseball Reference

Grandal: 0.0 WAR

McCann: 0.9 WAR

McCann is literally capable of winning games for you by having him in the lineup over Grandal right now.  At what point does a manager start playing him over Grandal, or at least have their ABs remain the same over the rest of the year?

 

[beautox]

7 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said:

Not paying McCann, even more than he might be worth, would be a really bad mistake.  Very few players you can look at and say they just add something intangible to this team, hes one of those kinds of players

Fangraphs

Grandal: 111 PA - 0.7 WAR

McCann: 61 PA - 0.9 WAR

Baseball Reference

Grandal: 0.0 WAR

McCann: 0.9 WAR

McCann is literally capable of winning games for you by having him in the lineup over Grandal right now.  At what point does a manager start playing him over Grandal, or at least have their ABs remain the same over the rest of the year?

 

Pretty sure bWAR doesn't take into account framing last i checked.

Personally I would like to see something like this for the white sox off-season

Remove EE, Gio Gonzalez, Cishek from the roster paying out the 3.25M for the option buy outs and retained salaries (Herrera & Konerko)

After ARB the sox payroll should be sitting between 96-100M

Re-sign McCann to a market rate 3/24 with a club option and buy out

Sign Bauer for one year or Quintana to a similar deal to Keuchel 3/$55 with a vesting option based on inning pitcher or something similar

Depending on how Mazara performs from here on out you keep or DFA, if he is DFA'd sign the long half of the platoon for Engel in Joc Pederson or Brantley, in the current market conditions I don't see a situation where they're going to get paid massively from their current contracts or you can trade to free up some space for a prospect or young major leaguer on a struggling team. The AFL this year is going to be the strongest its ever been due to covid. 

after those moves (in this scenario I see us reuniting with Quintana) The sox payroll is at $122-126 that is roughly our high water mark from over a decade ago ($127,789,000 in 2011 & $121,189,332 in '08) if the royals are a billion dollar franchise in addition to the minors moving to a A, AA, AAA schedule, I see no reason the sox can't match a decades old water mark in terms of top payroll when its officially year 1 of the window.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

7 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said:

Not paying McCann, even more than he might be worth, would be a really bad mistake.  Very few players you can look at and say they just add something intangible to this team, hes one of those kinds of players

Fangraphs

Grandal: 111 PA - 0.7 WAR

McCann: 61 PA - 0.9 WAR

Baseball Reference

Grandal: 0.0 WAR

McCann: 0.9 WAR

McCann is literally capable of winning games for you by having him in the lineup over Grandal right now.  At what point does a manager start playing him over Grandal, or at least have their ABs remain the same over the rest of the year?

 

The fact that this post did not receive multiple  critical posts in response tells me that the fan base is starting to come around on the McCann/Grandal debate.

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

The fact that this post did not receive multiple  critical posts in response tells me that the fan base is starting to come around on the McCann/Grandal debate.

They're 2 of the 4 most valuable catchers in the AL.

Grandal has track record, McCann is proving his lightning bottle season wasn't in a bottle.

It's kind of crazy that for years we always said if you have bats, you find spots for them ... and now we're struggling with that.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

They're 2 of the 4 most valuable catchers in the AL.

Grandal has track record, McCann is proving his lightning bottle season wasn't in a bottle.

It's kind of crazy that for years we always said if you have bats, you find spots for them ... and now we're struggling with that.

For sure but that post would have been mocked and laughed at just a couple weeks ago...

[WBWSF]

I've never understood why Grandal was signed to the biggest contract in White Sox history. McCann made the All Star team in 2019. I thought  McCann would have been signed to a long term contract this past off season. Hahn has obviously fallen in love with Grandal and I simply don't see why. He's been having a hard time hitting his weight. McCann has done nothing but good since he's been in a White Sox uniform. I have no doubt in my mind that McCann will be playing for another team next season. I really couldn't blame him for leaving. Funny thing about this is the White Sox are stuck with Grandal. Nobody is going to take him in a trade with his big contract.

[Chicago White Sox]

Random dumb question, but is McCann capable of playing a passable RF?  He’s fairly athletic and we know he has the arm, just throwing a wild ide there but not a lot of options to solve RF.

[Quin]

33 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I've never understood why Grandal was signed to the biggest contract in White Sox history. McCann made the All Star team in 2019. I thought  McCann would have been signed to a long term contract this past off season. Hahn has obviously fallen in love with Grandal and I simply don't see why. He's been having a hard time hitting his weight. McCann has done nothing but good since he's been in a White Sox uniform. I have no doubt in my mind that McCann will be playing for another team next season. I really couldn't blame him for leaving. Funny thing about this is the White Sox are stuck with Grandal. Nobody is going to take him in a trade with his big contract.

Grandal, a historically streaky catcher, is a few hot games off his career averages. He's a top 2 catcher in the game and elite at framing.

We're also, hear me out, 27 games played into the contract.

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Random dumb question, but is McCann capable of playing a passable RF?  He’s fairly athletic and we know he has the arm, just throwing a wild ide there but not a lot of options to solve RF.

I've also been having this "fuck it, it's 2020" idea.

[Kyyle23]

34 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I've never understood why Grandal was signed to the biggest contract in White Sox history. McCann made the All Star team in 2019. I thought  McCann would have been signed to a long term contract this past off season. Hahn has obviously fallen in love with Grandal and I simply don't see why. He's been having a hard time hitting his weight. McCann has done nothing but good since he's been in a White Sox uniform. I have no doubt in my mind that McCann will be playing for another team next season. I really couldn't blame him for leaving. Funny thing about this is the White Sox are stuck with Grandal. Nobody is going to take him in a trade with his big contract.

Bruh, Grandal has been on the team for 36 games.   You know who else was an all-star in 2019?  Grandal

[poppysox]

32 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I've never understood why Grandal was signed to the biggest contract in White Sox history. McCann made the All Star team in 2019. I thought  McCann would have been signed to a long term contract this past off season. Hahn has obviously fallen in love with Grandal and I simply don't see why. He's been having a hard time hitting his weight. McCann has done nothing but good since he's been in a White Sox uniform. I have no doubt in my mind that McCann will be playing for another team next season. I really couldn't blame him for leaving. Funny thing about this is the White Sox are stuck with Grandal. Nobody is going to take him in a trade with his big contract.

Having two quality catchers is a good thing not bad.  I consider them co-starting catchers with the other one being DH/backup.  The mistake was signing EE, not Grandal.