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Realistic trade candidates AKA The Lynnsanity Thread


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I’m not worried at all about who might be traded, as Vaughn is the only untouchable in the system now. For the right price, Kopech and/or Madrigal should be available.  I also say this with the confidence that no rentals will be brought in unless it’s a small trade.

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26 minutes ago, fathom said:

Wasn’t he the worst pitcher in baseball last year statistically?  I know that means less now that it did before Giolito, but don’t act like he’s this phenomenal performer that had a few bad outings.  He’s lucky he was given a starting spot coming into the season without real competition.

HAHA....in your own argument you admit that players can go from worst to first.   I did not say Lopez is a phenom.  I'm just reacting to the suggesting that he's worthless.  Somehow he's Dylan Covey.  He's given a number of data points that he might be good.  I wrote someplace earlier how very good he's been in about 80% of his starts...it's just when he was bad he was horrible.    

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1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

OH come one...you have defined 23 year old Madrigal after 17 major league at bats?  Wasn't he named the best fielding second baseman in all the minors last year?  You know who else was a single hitting, great bat control, little power, rare walking (until later in his career) second baseman.  Rod Carew...and he had nearly 50 WAR in a 7 year stretch.   I like Mendick but he's almost 27 and has never done anything in his career that suggests greatness.   

No I really haven't defined anything except he is not a run producer.  That is something we should all know.

The question is do u take a very real shot at winning 2 world series this year and next year without him at the very beginning of his career when he is still an unknown quantity. Comparing him to a HOF 2ND basemen has no bearing on his future.

I'll take 3 Cy Young candidate pitchers and a chance at 2 World Series over Madrigals future every time.

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17 minutes ago, fathom said:

I’m not worried at all about who might be traded, as Vaughn is the only untouchable in the system now. For the right price, Kopech and/or Madrigal should be available.  I also say this with the confidence that no rentals will be brought in unless it’s a small trade.

Do you define a guy like Lynn as a rental because he's tailor made for the Sox, cheap and very good. 3 Cy Young candidates give us a real shot this year and next if we can avoid putting Cease in the package.

The only question mark then would be the ultra young pen without Bummer if he cant return.

 

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15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Do you define a guy like Lynn as a rental because he's tailor made for the Sox, cheap and very good. 3 Cy Young candidates give us a real shot this year and next if we can avoid putting Cease in the package.

The only question mark then would be the ultra young pen without Bummer if he cant return.

 

No he’s not a rental

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Based on all the posts on this thread, it seems to me that the this group is typically okay with trading the following in some form:
Cease, Dunning, Adolfo & Collins. If you offered that group right now would that net DeGrom? You still keep Kopech and Steiver for 2021 and beyond and Vaughn and Madrigal still are core elements (Meaning every position is either signed long term or home grown cheap). Losing Cease would really sting, but you are upgrading to the best pitcher in baseball currently, and you lose a #3-4 starter with 6 years of control, a catcher that nobody believes in and a RF that quite honestly is a lottery ticket at this point. 

Edited by EloyJenkins
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Just now, EloyJenkins said:

Based on all the posts on this thread, it seems to me that the this group is typically okay with trading the following in some form:
Cease, Dunning, Adolfo & Collins. If you offered that group right now would that net DeGrom? You still keep Steiver for 2021 and beyond and Vaughn and Madrigal still are core elements (Meaning every position is either signed long term or home grown cheap). Losing Cease would really sting, but you are upgrading to the best pitcher in baseball currently, and you lose a #3-4 starter with 6 years of control, a catcher that nobody believes in and a RF that quite honestly is a lottery ticket at this point. 

I honestly don’t think most people are ok with trading Cease.

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47 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No I really haven't defined anything except he is not a run producer.  That is something we should all know.

The question is do u take a very real shot at winning 2 world series this year and next year without him at the very beginning of his career when he is still an unknown quantity. Comparing him to a HOF 2ND basemen has no bearing on his future.

I'll take 3 Cy Young candidate pitchers and a chance at 2 World Series over Madrigals future every time.

Sorry I didn't understand your definition of "run producer" as a slugger.  Of course that's true...but when Vaughan comes up we have about six guys that can hit 30 homers.   Madrigal as a guy that gets on base at a .370 clip, steals 40 bases and plays gold glove second base...every day...seems more valuable than a short term shot at WS that is a bit of a gamble anyway.   

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1 minute ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Sorry I didn't understand your definition of "run producer" as a slugger.  Of course that's true...but when Vaughan comes up we have about six guys that can hit 30 homers.   Madrigal as a guy that gets on base at a .370 clip, steals 40 bases and plays gold glove second base...every day...seems more valuable than a short term shot at WS that is a bit of a gamble anyway.   

Madrigal would be lucky to steal 15 bases a year, and I’m not sure I would want him trying to steal that much.

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5 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Based on all the posts on this thread, it seems to me that the this group is typically okay with trading the following in some form:
Cease, Dunning, Adolfo & Collins. If you offered that group right now would that net DeGrom? You still keep Kopech and Steiver for 2021 and beyond and Vaughn and Madrigal still are core elements (Meaning every position is either signed long term or home grown cheap). Losing Cease would really sting, but you are upgrading to the best pitcher in baseball currently, and you lose a #3-4 starter with 6 years of control, a catcher that nobody believes in and a RF that quite honestly is a lottery ticket at this point. 

I can't imagine that back firing.  Lottery tickets NEVER hit.  

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1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I think that is ridiculous to question his manhood.

Calm down there. I’m commenting on his appearance on the mound. He looks scared. Child like scared. Blank face, child like fear.

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7 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Based on all the posts on this thread, it seems to me that the this group is typically okay with trading the following in some form:
Cease, Dunning, Adolfo & Collins. If you offered that group right now would that net DeGrom? You still keep Kopech and Steiver for 2021 and beyond and Vaughn and Madrigal still are core elements (Meaning every position is either signed long term or home grown cheap). Losing Cease would really sting, but you are upgrading to the best pitcher in baseball currently, and you lose a #3-4 starter with 6 years of control, a catcher that nobody believes in and a RF that quite honestly is a lottery ticket at this point. 

Interesting...if I’m mets I feel like I’d want a top position player. It’s a strong offer though.

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3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Madrigal would be lucky to steal 15 bases a year, and I’m not sure I would want him trying to steal that much.

OK that's probably fair...just looked at his average from college and minor league. Again...judging him based on half a dozen games in the pros and conclusively stating that he would be lucky to steal 15 seems overly pessimistic.  

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2 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

OK that's probably fair...just looked at his average from college and minor league. Again...judging him based on half a dozen games in the pros and conclusively stating that he would be lucky to steal 15 seems overly pessimistic.  

Ricky doesn’t like to give guys the green light.  And do you really want him possibly getting caught stealing with top of the order up?  
Also not a single belief I have about Madrigal is from his time in the Majors this year.  Go back in the minor league threads from last year and you will see numerous comments about how his speed was not as advertised.

Edited by fathom
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Man being good has some of guys in a daze.  There is huge downside risk to any trades this year relative to upside.  Sure you have to give to get but the pot odds are not there right now for an all in move.  Standing pat is just fine.  There are more hands to play in this contention window, years worth.

 

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10 minutes ago, fathom said:

So far, Stone has said Lynn, Clevinger/Plesac, deGrom and Trevor Williams won’t happen.  A few weeks ago he also said no to Stroman as a FA.

So basically we’re sticking with the starters we got?  Not sure how Stone can rule out all trade targets and the more reasonable FA’s next year unless we simply don’t plan on adding one.

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9 minutes ago, fathom said:

This is cliche talk but maybe the biggest addition the Sox could bring in is getting Bummer back. Unfortunately it doesn’t sound like a lot of progress has been made. 

Where you hearing this?  I haven’t seen anything really on Bummer, but easily could have missed it.

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