Chisoxfn Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 28 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Let's just make sure that the Sox get real quality this time. No more Samardzijas, Fraziers, Shields, etc. No more howling at the moon that average players are somehow great. Exactly - we actually have great players and we developed them. And guess what - we got more cost controlled great players on the way. Don’t trade it away. Kopech, Dunning, Vaughn - just day no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: Cubs gave up Gleyber Torres, a premium position elite prospect, for 2 months of Chapman. Hader (the next best reliever in the game) under 3+ years control not worth Andrew Vaughn to you? If it's what you consider the finishing piece, you have to do it. Is Josh Hader the finishing piece for this team? We are playoff experienced, on pace for 100 wins, no excuses if we lose in the first round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: Cubs gave up Gleyber Torres, a premium position elite prospect, for 2 months of Chapman. Hader (the next best reliever in the game) under 3+ years control not worth Andrew Vaughn to you? If it's what you consider the finishing piece, you have to do it. I agree with you that Hader could get Vaughn - but I’m not making that trade. Period. I’m not desperate - this team is very good and it’s got a chance to have an elite run. Now if Brewers will take guys out of our top 3 - we can talk - but they won’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Is Josh Hader the finishing piece for this team? We are playoff experienced, on pace for 100 wins, no excuses if we lose in the first round? And the first round is a 3 game series - no matter what the risk of the best team losing is just high in this COVID postseason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said: Exactly - we actually have great players and we developed them. And guess what - we got more cost controlled great players on the way. Don’t trade it away. Kopech, Dunning, Vaughn - just day no. I’d hate to trade Kopech because of his ceiling, but if you’re getting a cost controlled starter that better fits your window then I can see the logic in doing it. Adding a Clevinger or Woodruff is an immediate game changer for our rotation and makes us much stronger over the next few years. Hell, Woodruff only has one or two years less control than Kopech and has already flashed five win starter ability. Add one of these guys to the top of your rotation alongside Giolito & Keuchel and you can give Cease & Dunning more time to develop / build up arm strength. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said: And the first round is a 3 game series - no matter what the risk of the best team losing is just high in this COVID postseason. Normal season next year, 100 win pace and we need bullpen help? Fine, deal a top 50 prospect for it. Not in this crapshoot. The last few teams to do full rebuilds - each of them needed some playoff experience before they won it. Astros lost in 15, Cubs lost in 15, Royals lost in 14, Nats lost for a full decade. Be happy with playoff experience this year and don’t sell all out for this year given the huge risks. Talk to me next year healthy and on a 100 win pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’d hate to trade Kopech because of his ceiling, but if you’re getting a cost controlled starter that better fits your window then I can see the logic in doing it. Adding a Clevinger or Woodruff is an immediate game changer for our rotation and makes us much stronger over the next few years. Hell, Woodruff only has one or two years less control than Kopech and has already flashed five win starter ability. Add one of these guys to the top of your rotation alongside Giolito & Keuchel and you can give Cease & Dunning more time to develop / build up arm strength. I’d do that too and the problem is the Brewers shouldn’t. If another team wants to be dumb, ok I can accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Kopeck is probably going to have a rough 2021, but if we work through that then in 2022 we will be sitting there with a rotation zero teams want any part of in the postseason. I understand the mentality of not being overly concerned or invested in this year's final results, but how you could be willing to write off next year is beyond me. The White Sox window *could* extend years down the line, but I have trouble having faith beyond Giolito's arb years. I wish I had your level of belief that three of Kopech, Cease, Dunning, Lopez?, Crochet?, and Steiver? will be good starting pitchers by 2022 AND that Giolito and Keuchel will stay healthy and not regress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Fuck it, I gave it to midnight but am going to have to call it. That being said, if Not Steve Cishek is correct, I’m predicting it’s a 4-1 swap for a TOR starter. Here are my two guesses: Lynn for Stiever, Heuer, Adolfo, & Collins Woodruff for Kopech, Heuer, Lopez, & Collins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, TomPickle said: I understand the mentality of not being overly concerned or invested in this year's final results, but how you could be willing to write off next year is beyond me. The White Sox window *could* extend years down the line, but I have trouble having faith beyond Giolito's arb years. I wish I had your level of belief that three of Kopech, Cease, Dunning, Lopez?, Crochet?, and Steiver? will be good starting pitchers by 2022 AND that Giolito and Keuchel will stay healthy and not regress. I have no urge to write off next year, I just think it will be a rough season for Kopech. Talk to me about our needs next July and we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Fuck it, I gave it to midnight but am going to have to call it. That being said, if Not Steve Cishek is correct, I’m predicting it’s a 4-1 swap for a TOR starter. Here are my two guesses: Lynn for Stiever, Heuer, Adolfo, & Collins Woodruff for Kopech, Heuer, Lopez, & Collins “Rick Hahn Special”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Is Josh Hader the finishing piece for this team? We are playoff experienced, on pace for 100 wins, no excuses if we lose in the first round? That's for Rick Hahn to decide. But if you'd get both Woodruff and Hader you don't feel this team is instant WS contenders? For not only 2020, but 2021 and 2022? I love the potential in Vaughn. But he plays 1B. 1) Abreu isn't letting that position go while he is signed here nor do I feel management has the stones to take it away from him 2) Abreu is still real good 3) A replacement 1B/DH isn't hard to get down the line. In fact you need to start planning in getting Eloy out of the OF. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Just now, Balta1701 said: I have no urge to write off next year, I just think it will be a rough season for Kopech. Talk to me about our needs next July and we will see. Which is why Hahn may be looking into converting Kopech plus other stuff into a legit TOR starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: “Rick Hahn Special”. Which one do you hate or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Just now, HOFHurt35 said: That's for Rick Hahn to decide. But if you'd get both Woodruff and Hader you don't feel this team is instant WS contenders? For not only 2020, but 2021 and 2022? I love the potential in Vaughn. But he plays 1B. 1) Abreu isn't letting that position go while he is signed here nor do I feel management has the stones to take it away from him 2) Abreu is still real good 3) A replacement 1B/DH isn't hard to get down the line. In fact you need to start planning in getting Eloy out of the OF. Put yourself in the Brewers shoes. What would it take to give up both those guys? Are the White Sox putting Robert on the table? Because now they have my attention and are clearly serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Which one do you hate or both? Both, clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I have no urge to write off next year, I just think it will be a rough season for Kopech. Talk to me about our needs next July and we will see. Yeah, after seeing your later posts I think we're closer to agreeing on things than I originally thought. 2020 sucks for a lot of reasons, but under normal circumstances this would have been a nice low pressure season to maybe make the playoffs and learn more about a lot of your minor leaguers. It will be fun to watch the White Sox make the playoffs at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Just now, Balta1701 said: Put yourself in the Brewers shoes. What would it take to give up both those guys? Are the White Sox putting Robert on the table? Because now they have my attention and are clearly serious. It's starts with Kopech, Vaughn for sure. More than likely Stiever, Collins, and Adolfo. It would easily be a 5-6 for 2 deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I wouldnt deal any of our top 15 prospects unless it was a trade that solidified an important spot on the team for at least 4 years fuck these sellout strats, this team might make it to the series, and might even win it all. but I'm not betting on that to happen, I think they should stick to the script of next year being the first contention year, and hoard all their chips until at least next year maybe Hahn knows something about his employment? I'm not saying that I'm 100% right in that they shouldn't go for it yet, but that's just how I feel about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 35 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: Cubs gave up Gleyber Torres, a premium position elite prospect, for 2 months of Chapman. Hader (the next best reliever in the game) under 3+ years control not worth Andrew Vaughn to you? If it's what you consider the finishing piece, you have to do it. No. I'm extremely high on Vaughn though. Like potential top three hitter in Sox history high on Vaughn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Both, clearly. Why? Woodruff has 4+ years of control and is a young proven TOR starter. Yeah, losing Heuer sucks, but I’m not losing sleep over Lopez or Collins. As for the Lynn package, the best prospect you are giving up is Stiever. Again, sucks losing Heuer, but your rotation would be six deep next year with Kopech still in house. I’d happily make either of those deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Kopeck is probably going to have a rough 2021, but if we work through that then in 2022 we will be sitting there with a rotation zero teams want any part of in the postseason. Yeah, normally I'd agree with you and probably will again when I wake up, but at the moment I've been persuaded Kopech is in fact a fruit loop who may have a bunch of horse shit aside from his ability prevent him from contributing as he is capable. In this case a Woodruff in hand may be worth a Kopech in the bush. Dunning looking like an absolute stud probably has swayed me a bit as well. I'd rather keep both of them and get Woodruff, but I doubt that is possible. If Dunning is for real, the Sox could still have an excellent rotation without Kopech. I'd rather just trade for Lynn without giving up either of them, although Woodruff's long term controllability is attractive. Edited August 31, 2020 by Vulture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdiego Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I could see Woodruff for Kopech package making sense. But adding Vaughn, aw hell naw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I would not trade vaughn. I think he basically will be the new abreu and post a 120-130 wRC+ every year. Abreu is still good but he gets older too and even if he doesn't there still is a DH spot and I think collins is not the answer there. Keep vaughn and trade away collins, Mercedes and sheets and you get some talent and still have a DH/1b duo in jose and vaughn that is one of the better ones in the AL. Of course hader on the open market is easily worth vaughn but while hader has control left relievers can lose it very fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Chisoxfn said: Exactly - we actually have great players and we developed them. And guess what - we got more cost controlled great players on the way. Don’t trade it away. Kopech, Dunning, Vaughn - just day no. That post is a bit contradictory. The post you quoted said "no more mediocre players" and you agreed with it but at the same time you don't want to part with the key prospects. Either take is very understandable but you can't have both. Either you get just ok filler pieces for the second rate prospects or you get stars in their prime but then you have to give up some top prospect. So you can't have both unless you want the sox to not make any trades at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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