RR

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

23 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

Renteria is incompetent at this job. But it shouldn't have been last night's game to come to this conclusion.

However, I'd launch Rick Hahn right along with him for his continued failures in free agency and veteran trades.  The only veteran worth a damn from this offseason has been Keuchel.   Grandal, EE, Mazara, Cishek, Gonzalez have all been terrible.     Renteria can only play the players handed to him. 

Grandal has .7 WAR already.. On pace for 1.4ish WAR.. Which in a normal year would be about a 4.2 WAR season... He doesn't have a high batting average and never will.. I see you use that as the be all, end all.. Stop it.

Encarnacion, Cishek and Gonzalez were cheap deals so absolutely nothing is/was hurt by signing them...

Edited September 3, 2020 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[HOFHurt35]

15 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Another concern is that he could get Stone fired before long at this rate. That would be a regional tragedy. You know Steve's filter is wearing thinner and thinner.

That's one thing I'm very confident will not happen.  JR allows his announcers to speak freely when it comes to this.  If you recall, Funk and King where very open in describing bad coaching when it came to Hoiberg and Boylen.   Even mocking them at times during the telecast.   Stone keeps his criticism professional.  

[ShoeLessRob]

Let’s just be real... Rick Renteria isn’t going anywhere. They will say this was his first year with talent on a team and was able to “lead” them to a playoff appearance. They will also credit the close relationships and clubhouse chemistry to his temperament, a lot of these players view him as a father figure. 
 

I’m not defending him, just being honest with expectations moving forward. 

[HOFHurt35]

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Grandal has .7 WAR already.. On pace for 1.4ish WAR.. Which in a normal year would be about a 4.2 WAR season... He doesn't have a high batting average and never will.. I see you use that as the be all, end all.. Stop it.

Encarnacion, Cishek and Gonzalez were cheap deals so absolutely nothing is/was hurt by signing them...

At no point myself or anyone criticizing Grandal mentioned Batting Average. 

[EloyJenkins]

Stone keeps on mentioning a really smart team is going to go dual manager. How about Stone and Jirschele? Seriously. this Allows Jirschele some time to learn on the job and change the culture and Stone really focuses on the pitching staff. I know this might sound crazy, but I honestly think it could work - Coop would have to go too probably under this plan. Not sure Stone and Coop could coexist. 

What is RR contract situation? the stuff online is so secretive. 

[Vulture]

3 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

  If you recall, Funk and King where very open in describing bad coaching when it came to Hoiberg and Boylen.   Even mocking them at times during the telecast.   Stone keeps his criticism professional.  

I'm a Pacers fan, so I wouldn't recall that. But I'll take your word for it.

[Jack Parkman]

36 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Samson says Reinsdorf said always finish in second

Jesus fucking christ knock it off with these conspiracy theories. The guy forked over like 150M in new players this offseason + about 140M in extensions this past offseason. Why is this being brought up right now in THIS thread? Because Renteria is a "cheap" manager? Get the fuck out of here. Because at the present moment the team is 7 games above .500 and a W out of first place?

You really enjoy getting the board fired up, huh @Jack Parkman? There are a select group of trolls on this board and you're certainly one of them. You're a disgrace

I'm not trying to fire anyone up, I was asking a legit question. It's obvious that Ricky needs to be fired, but who is out there that is better? idk if there is an upgrade available tbh. 

As for the Samson comments, we'll find out about that this winter. 

I already said that Jerry isn't actually cheap, he just tries to spread his spending out over multiple players than just one or two. 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Vulture]

2 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Stone keeps on mentioning a really smart team is going to go dual manager. How about Stone and Jirschele? Seriously. this Allows Jirschele some time to learn on the job and change the culture and Stone really focuses on the pitching staff. I know this might sound crazy, but I honestly think it could work - Coop would have to go too probably under this plan. Not sure Stone and Coop could coexist. 

What is RR contract situation? the stuff online is so secretive. 

I think Stone has no interest in changing professions. Not sure he has the people skills for handling a clubhouse either

[SonofaRoache]

27 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaredwyllys/2019/10/05/chicago-white-sox-owner-jerry-reinsdorfs-comments-show-destructive-approach/#570f364872f1

“Here’s my best advice to you: Finish in second place every single year,” Samson claims Reinsdorf told him. “Because your fans will say, ‘Wow, we’ve got a shot. We’re in it.’ But there’s always the carrot left. There’s always one more step to take.”

With the new 16 team playoff farce, teams can now shoot for a third/fourth place carrot.

That ain't gonna work this time. That's why i said last night the FO thinks simply making the playoffs this year is okay because the fans will be content with a postseason appearance, even with a quick exit. As fans, we have to stay on top of these people and make sure they are performing their jobs to the best of their abilities.  

[SonofaRoache]

25 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Samson says Reinsdorf said always finish in second

Jesus fucking christ knock it off with these conspiracy theories. The guy forked over like 150M in new players this offseason + about 140M in extensions this past offseason. Why is this being brought up right now in THIS thread? Because Renteria is a "cheap" manager? Get the fuck out of here. Because at the present moment the team is 7 games above .500 and a W out of first place?

You really enjoy getting the board fired up, huh @Jack Parkman? There are a select group of trolls on this board and you're certainly one of them. You're a disgrace

Oh the irony. 

[soxfan49]

22 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm not trying to fire anyone up, I was asking a legit question. It's obvious that Ricky needs to be fired, but who is out there that is better? idk if there is an upgrade available tbh. 

As for the Samson comments, we'll find out about that this winter. 

I already said that Jerry isn't actually cheap, he just tries to spread his spending out over multiple players than just one or two. 

 

You're bringing up a quote about Reinsdorf in a thread about Renteria's replacement because "who else is out there?" Yeah that makes sense

 

12 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Oh the irony. 

What exactly is your point? The Sox were just in first place and everyone was thrilled. Now they're a game out and it's "hmm maybe Reinsdorf WANTS them to be in second because of what a disgraced executive from the Marlins said!" Yeah, perhaps Reinsdorf paid off the players to lose yesterday because that way they would be in second. It just might be the case! Fuck outta here

Edited September 3, 2020 by soxfan49

[Jack Parkman]

7 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

You're a question about Reinsdorf in a thread about Renteria because "who else is out there?" Yeah that makes sense

 

What exactly is your point? The Sox were just in first place and everyone was thrilled. Now they're a game out and it's "hmm maybe Reinsdorf WANTS them to be in second because of what a disgraced executive from the Marlins said!" Yeah, perhaps Reinsdorf paid off the players to lose yesterday because that way they would be in second. It just might be the case! Fuck outta here

No I was responding to WBWSF when he questioned whether or not the FO actually wants to win. That's where that comment came from. 

BTW I agree with what they're doing this year.....they need to see what they have in-house before they go out and make trades to fill holes. 

I wonder about the Sampson stuff because there's a lot of evidence that it might be true with how Reinsdorf behaved with the last core that emerged in 2000.   There was always a hole or two that needed to be filled and he never did it. 2005 was just a confluence of simultaneous career years and emergence of players from the farm. I don't necessarily believe it, nor do I want to but to dismiss it outright is to ignore the moves they made over majority of the decade from 2000-2009. It's actually plausible, and I hate it. 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[jamesdiego]

25 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Let’s just be real... Rick Renteria isn’t going anywhere. They will say this was his first year with talent on a team and was able to “lead” them to a playoff appearance. They will also credit the close relationships and clubhouse chemistry to his temperament, a lot of these players view him as a father figure. 
 

I’m not defending him, just being honest with expectations moving forward. 

I agree.  I would not say it’s a given this organization would do the right thing and replace Renteria this offseason.  Jerry has his strong aversion to not want to pay a manager to not manage.   I’m assuming Rick is signed past this season, I don’t know his contract.  
 

There is a strong Latin culture here and I think the best way not to disrupt it is hiring a bilingual manager.  And part of the reason why I want Sandy.  Jirschele Is way too young in my eyes, we have no idea how he would handle the clubhouse full of veterans.  He would be good for a young club with no expectations, where he can grow.  Not an organization with World Series expectations next year.  No thanks to experiments.  

[soxfan49]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

No I was responding to WBWSF when he questioned whether or not the FO actually wants to win. That's where that comment came from. 

BTW I agree with what they're doing this year.....they need to see what they have in-house before they go out and make trades to fill holes. 

I wonder about the Sampson stuff because there's a lot of evidence that it might be true with how Reinsdorf behaved with the last core that emerged in 2000.   There was always a hole or two that needed to be filled and he never did it. 2005 was just a confluence of simultaneous career years and emergence of players from the farm. I don't necessarily believe it, nor do I want to but to dismiss it outright is to ignore the moves they made over majority of the decade from 2000-2009. 

 

 

Yeah the front office of the White Sox doesn't want to win. That's it. It's definitely something to ponder and use mental energy on

[Quin]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

No I was responding to WBWSF when he questioned whether or not the FO actually wants to win. That's where that comment came from. 

BTW I agree with what they're doing this year.....they need to see what they have in-house before they go out and make trades to fill holes. 

I wonder about the Sampson stuff because there's a lot of evidence that it might be true with how Reinsdorf behaved with the last core that emerged in 2000.   There was always a hole or two that needed to be filled and he never did it. 2005 was just a confluence of simultaneous career years and emergence of players from the farm. I don't necessarily believe it, nor do I want to but to dismiss it outright is to ignore the moves they made over majority of the decade from 2000-2009. It's actually plausible, and I hate it. 

 

 

• Doesn't want to win
• Goes to great lengths to tear down the team, stack with phenom prospects, hand out several massive FA contracts and extensions, and overhaul the draft process.

Pick one.

[Jack Parkman]

9 minutes ago, Quin said:

• Doesn't want to win
• Goes to great lengths to tear down the team, stack with phenom prospects, hand out several massive FA contracts and extensions, and overhaul the draft process.

Pick one.

How is this any different from 1997-2000 and what followed so far? Serious question. 

They tore it down in 1997, Won a division in 2000, built a great farm, and continued to finish in 2nd place with the core players they had. They did win the division 3 times, but nobody expected them to do so when they did it. It took a bunch of convergence of things to go right(Contreras and Quentin being on fire among them) that nobody expected to win the WS in 2005 and the division in 2008. 

We'll have to let this one play out, but as of right now they've built another 85-88 win team over 162 with some glaring holes. Last time they tried patchwork stuff and sometimes it worked, and most of the time it didn't. EE and Mazara were yet another patchwork hole filler. They didn't work. This group looks a lot like the 2000-2004 group right now. 

I think they want to win, but they want to do it the their way (finding bargain options)  rather than the easy way(just paying up to fill the holes)

Edited September 3, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Harry Chappas]

Not bringing in any type of starting pitcher or reliever two days ago is a massive failure by the front office.  

RR going with his gut or whatever that keeps Mazara and EE out there is a failure.  I still think Cooper calls the bullpen shots and the bullpen was going to regress and it has massively. 

[soxfan49]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

How is this any different from 1997-2000 and what followed? Serious question. 

They tore it down in 1997, Won a division in 2000, built a great farm, and continued to finish in 2nd place with the core players they had. They did win the division 3 times, but nobody expected them to do so when they did it. It took a bunch of convergence of things to go right(Contreras and Quentin being on fire among them) that nobody expected to win the WS in 2005 and the division in 2008. 

We'll have to let this one play out, but as of right now they've built another 85-88 win team over 162 with some glaring holes. Last time they tried patchwork stuff and sometimes it worked, and most of the time it didn't. EE and Mazara were yet another patchwork hole filler. They didn't work. This group looks a lot like the 2000-2004 group right now. 

I think they want to win, but they want to do it the their way (finding bargain options)  rather than the easy way(just paying up to fill the holes)

You wanted them to extend Robert and Moncada. You loved the Keuchel, EE and Grandal signings, or at least the symbolism that they were going for it and were willing to spend.

But now? Nope, they might want to not win.

[Jack Parkman]

7 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

You wanted them to extend Robert and Moncada. You loved the Keuchel, EE and Grandal signings, or at least the symbolism that they were going for it and were willing to spend.

But now? Nope, they might want to not win.

The pandemic changes things. I'm concerned about Jerry whining to Bob Nightengale about revenues among other things. 

I hated the Keuchel/EE signings btw. I liked the Mazara gamble.  I was wrong about Keuchel. I thought they should have kept  their payroll flexibility for better options next year. 

I believe they're closer to the 2015 Astros than the 2015 Cubs. Think about all of the moves the Astros had to make in 2016 and 2017 to win a title. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Quin]

8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

How is this any different from 1997-2000 and what followed so far? Serious question. 

They tore it down in 1997, Won a division in 2000, built a great farm, and continued to finish in 2nd place with the core players they had. They did win the division 3 times, but nobody expected them to do so when they did it. It took a bunch of convergence of things to go right(Contreras and Quentin being on fire among them) that nobody expected to win the WS in 2005 and the division in 2008. 

We'll have to let this one play out, but as of right now they've built another 85-88 win team over 162 with some glaring holes. Last time they tried patchwork stuff and sometimes it worked, and most of the time it didn't. EE and Mazara were yet another patchwork hole filler. They didn't work. This group looks a lot like the 2000-2004 group right now. 

I think they want to win, but they want to do it the their way (finding bargain options)  rather than the easy way(just paying up to fill the holes)

Big ass contracts, extensions, Luis Robert, more focus on high schoolers, knock on wood that the draft picks are more than trade fodder.

 

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

Big ass contracts, extensions, Luis Robert, more focus on high schoolers, knock on wood that the draft picks are more than trade fodder.

 

Very true......but idk how Covid changes things. It could put a dent in the whole shebang. 

They never locked up Maggs when they had a chance to. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Steve9347 said:

Holy shit, man. You want Hahn fired... now? The vision is finally coming together and you want him fired?

Calm tf down. Ricky has to go. He will this off-season. 

Child, please. 

So wait until the window is closed and no Championship, because Hahn has proven what exactly? 

Hahn already extended Ricky Renteria's contract at least through 2021. He may be here until Reinsdorf is gone, just like the others. Ventura would still be here if he wanted it, he quit on them. Williams, Hahn, Cooper are all lifers. Hell, even Ozzie Guillen is still around.

Professional organizations hold their executives accountable. Chicago's recent successful teams hold their executives accountable, even after championship(s), which was the point of my post. The Friends of Jerry are never held accountable.

https://www.mlb.com/news/rick-renteria-agrees-to-contract-extension-c300349390

Also, this isn't a "now you want Hahn fired" declaration, they needed to fire Hahn and Williams after 2015 to revamp the entire organization. White Sox Gar / Pax needs to go the way of Michael's Gar / Pax.

Edited September 3, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Very true......but idk how Covid changes things. It could put a dent in the whole shebang. 

They never locked up Maggs when they had a chance to. 

Because of his knees.

They then immediately replaced him with the man who became a World Series MVP and All-Star.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

Because of his knees.

They then immediately replaced him with the man who became a World Series MVP and All-Star.

Yes I know. Dye was a wonderful signing, probably the best move that Kenny ever made.  They're lucky he had a freak injury in 2004, and that he actually stuck by his agreement in principle when he got a better offer elsewhere. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Very true......but idk how Covid changes things. It could put a dent in the whole shebang. 

They never locked up Maggs when they had a chance to. 

You might be too young to remember, but Magglio burned that bridge to the ground.