Y'all need to chill

[Tnetennba]

Yesterday was ugly.  No other way to put it.  Some of the underlying struggles all kind of showed out together in one bad game.  Perspective is needed.  This isn’t the finished product yet and as much as we, (looking at myself in the proverbial mirror), want them to kick every team’s ass in dominating efficient fashion, they aren’t there yet.  This is still year one.  

[Baron]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

The evidence is there just by the teams actions.

Who were they willing to trade? We heard alot of rumors and didn't sound like they were close on anything. I'm not sure if a weird offseason will change their untouchable list. 

[Dick Allen]

15 minutes ago, Baron said:

Difference is. Theo moved some chips in the middle of the table. Is Hahn going to do that next year? Will he be allowed to? Or are we going to hold onto the prospects and make minimal moves? 

The only future core players Theo moved were Cease, Eloy and Gleybar Torres. If that is putting your chips in the middle of the table, I'm glad Hahn was out. Theo still is afraid to move any of his original core, even after stating last year, someone is going to go. 

[soxfan49]

17 minutes ago, Baron said:

Difference is. Theo moved some chips in the middle of the table. Is Hahn going to do that next year? Will he be allowed to? Or are we going to hold onto the prospects and make minimal moves? 

Didn't Hahn get his Lester/Heyward when he signed Grandal/Keuchel? How many more chips will he need to move? Vaughn will replace Encarnacion.

[Baron]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The only future core players Theo moved were Cease, Eloy and Gleybar Torres. If that is putting your chips in the middle of the table, I'm glad Hahn was out. Theo still is afraid to move any of his original core, even after stating last year, someone is going to go. 

From the Cubs? Yeah it's going to be Bryant probably. The main problem is if you deem Kopech,Dunning and Vaughn as untouchable I'm not liking our chances making a significant trade. 

 

I still think trading for a starting pitcher is probably the way they'll go. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Baron

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The only future core players Theo moved were Cease, Eloy and Gleybar Torres. If that is putting your chips in the middle of the table, I'm glad Hahn was out. Theo still is afraid to move any of his original core, even after stating last year, someone is going to go. 

Its looking like you can add the Paredes kid from Detroit.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Baron said:

Who were they willing to trade? We heard alot of rumors and didn't sound like they were close on anything. I'm not sure if a weird offseason will change their untouchable list. 

The fact they were discussing guys at the highest levels means they were willing to deal bigger named prospects, otherwise they wouldn't even be worth mentioning when it came to Lynn and Clevinger specifically.

[pcq]

Let's all dial down our expectations so the Sox can be more successful. Literally.

[Baron]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

Which moves are you referring to with Theo in particular? The only real one that comes to mind was Chapman. Signing guys like Lester and Heyward were, but I would say the signings of Keuchle and Grandal were similar, albeit not as expensive. 

That's because Lester is a TOR when signed. Keuchle was maybe? #3 or #4? But luckily for us he turned into our #2. 

[Baron]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The fact they were discussing guys at the highest levels means they were willing to deal bigger named prospects, otherwise they wouldn't even be worth mentioning when it came to Lynn and Clevinger specifically.

They didn't do either and how significant were those talks? Sox weren't even mentioned the entire trade deadline(the actual day) with either of those guys.  Could have been a "You want who for Lynn?" *Hang up*. So don't blow smoke up my ass with this. I'll give him credit when I actually see it. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Baron said:

They didn't do either and how significant were those talks? Sox weren't even mentioned the entire trade deadline(the actual day) with either of those guys.  Could have been a "You want who for Lynn?" *Hang up*. So don't blow smoke up my ass with this. I'll give him credit when I actually see it. 

If you are looking for an article that states the Sox were willing to offer Kopech, Collins, Heuer and others you are probably never going to get it.  That very rarely happens in the post tumor of a deal.

But the information is out there if you can read between the lines.  If you are looking for a 100% confirmation all of negotiations, the conversation is a waste of time.

[Dick Allen]

8 minutes ago, Baron said:

From the Cubs? Yeah it's going to be Bryant probably. The main problem is if you deem Kopech,Dunning and Vaughn as untouchable I'm not liking our chances making a significant trade. 

 

I still think trading for a starting pitcher is probably the way they'll go. 

I still think if JR is willing to pick up money, you will be able to get a really good , expensive player for not much. The owners have to at least fake being broke. I also read there are going to be 300 + non tenders this winter.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

But what's your point? Are you saying the Sox have to acquire a TOR starter or Hahn isn't "pushing all his chips in"? 

Especially since we do know that the Sox led the Wheeler offers.

[Baron]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

But what's your point? Are you saying the Sox have to acquire a TOR starter or Hahn isn't "pushing all his chips in"? 

No just that they aren't comparable as you stated. One teams offseason was more expensive for a reason. 

[Baron]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you are looking for an article that states the Sox were willing to offer Kopech, Collins, Heuer and others you are probably never going to get it.  That very rarely happens in the post tumor of a deal.

But the information is out there if you can read between the lines.  If you are looking for a 100% confirmation all of negotiations, the conversation is a waste of time.

Any proof would be a good start. Not reading the tea leaves or their dried up remains. 

[Baron]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I still think if JR is willing to pick up money, you will be able to get a really good , expensive player for not much. The owners have to at least fake being broke. I also read there are going to be 300 + non tenders this winter.

Maybe. Will be interesting to see if the market moves at a snails pace this year too. Where are the players expectations vs the owners. 

[Vulture]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you are looking for an article that states the Sox were willing to offer Kopech, Collins, Heuer and others you are probably never going to get it.  That very rarely happens in the post tumor of a deal.

But the information is out there if you can read between the lines.  If you are looking for a 100% confirmation all of negotiations, the conversation is a waste of time.

My impression was the opposite. If the Sox were willing to make that trade they would have got Lynn. Hahn specifically mentioned Vaughn and Kopech being integral parts of the team moving forward the evening of the trade deadline. Reading between the lines I took that to mean that was why a deal wasn't made.

[Tnetennba]

Had any Cubs prospect emerged as a potential ace when Lester signed?  When Keuchel signed Giolito just finished an All Star season and young Michael Kopech was expected to join the rotation at some point in 2020.  Not exactly the same situation.  

[Baron]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

Ok....so then I'll ask again and you still really haven't answered the question directly. 

You said you question if Hahn has it in him to "push his chips into the middle of the table" when the time comes. 

What does that look like in your mind? What does that mean to you? 

Trading someone that's going to sting like a Kopech or a Vaughn for a player with control. I'm not sure he would do that yet or at all. With the nature of this offseason I don't know if he will be able to operate like that anyway. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Baron

[bmags]

I'll just say this season has vindicated all of my opinions about [insert topic].

[greg775]

Again, no reason to panic. This team will hit (though Moncada needs to be healthy and in the lineup) the entire season but also will have some bad games offensively because of new baseball (home run or K). More often than not the squad will hit. I even want EE to remain in the lineup. He will hit. There's still a chance our lousy hitting RF can get it together and hit.

The pitching is not good. It should prevent the Sox from going far in the playoffs. Obviously Giolito and Dallas K are capable of leading the staff to greatness; as we saw the other night hopefully just cause of stomach issues, Dallas K is human. Cease is inconsistent right now, certainly no bet to excel.

However most teams have the same lousy pitching staffs. Sox have potentially a team that can crush all postseason. Anything is possible but like the originator of the thread said, all teams are flawed.

Edited September 3, 2020 by greg775

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, SouthWallace said:

Had any Cubs prospect emerged as a potential ace when Lester signed?  When Keuchel signed Giolito just finished an All Star season and young Michael Kopech was expected to join the rotation at some point in 2020.  Not exactly the same situation.  

The cubs rebuild put very little capital into young pitching.  They went veteran the whole time.

[bmags]

16 minutes ago, SouthWallace said:

Had any Cubs prospect emerged as a potential ace when Lester signed?  When Keuchel signed Giolito just finished an All Star season and young Michael Kopech was expected to join the rotation at some point in 2020.  Not exactly the same situation.  

I don't know about ace but Kyle Hendricks had a really good first promotion, and in 2014 Arrieta had started to become Arrieta. So he wasn't a prospect, but they had some reason to believe they'd have 2 good pitchers at that time.

[Balta1701]

31 minutes ago, Baron said:

Maybe. Will be interesting to see if the market moves at a snails pace this year too. Where are the players expectations vs the owners. 

I think it's extremely likely that the FA market waits until the last minute to develop. Whether or not players can be afforded depends entirely on whether or not ballparks can be opened, and that depends on whether or not there's a working vaccine, and that depends on whether or not the population is willing to get it (now that they're openly pushing releasing it without completing safety tests even I'm hesitant). We won't know the answers to all those in early November. We might not even know the answers to those questions in January.

[Vulture]

Sox don't need to trade Kopech or Vaughn to fill a hole in RF and a starting pitching slot IMO. Sox aren't going to need a ton of production out of RF after Vaughn is in the lineup anyway. Just buy a good starting pitcher in FA and go budget in RF. Some package of prospects other than Kopech and Vaughn should be good enough. Daniels was a fool for not taking a Steivers centered package for Lynn. Apparently he wanted a Sale type return, but with only one year left he was asking too much. Clevinger might have been worth including Kopech if it weren't to the Indians. You know that would end up blowing up in our faces. Don't blame Hahn there at all.