Playoff Pitching Staff

[Chicago White Sox]

Alright guys, with a 99.9% win probability and only 19 games remaining in the regular season, it’s time to start thinking about our potential post-season roster.  While the positional side is pretty cut & dry outside of maybe one spot, the pitching staff has a ton of question marks at the moment and lots of different options to fill up spots.  Given the overall uncertainty, I thought it would be an interesting exercise to see how you all would setup our pitching staff for the post-season.

For now, I’m going to assume 14 total spots, four starters / tandems, and that key injured guys are coming back (Bummer / Fry).

Rotation:

1. Giolito
2. Keuchel*
3. Rodon* + Dunning
4. Gonzalez* + Cease

We all know that Giolito & Keuchel are locks for the top two spots in the rotation, but after that things get a bit scary.  For me, Dunning has passed Cease and should be our primary #3 starter in the playoffs.  However, given potential innings restrictions for Dane, I’d like to see us use Rodon as an opener for him.  And when a fourth starter is needed, I’d like to see a Gonzalez & Cease tandem with Gio more or less serving as Dylan’s opener.  Now, if Dylan can get hot down the stretch I’d potentially reconsider, but so far his peripherals have been ugly and he will likely require a short leash come the playoffs.

Bullpen:

• CL: Colome
• SU: Bummer*
• SU: Marshall
• MR: Foster
• MR: Heuer
• MR: Fry*
• MR: Detwiler*
• MR: Cordero

Ultimately I’m going with the guys who have been effective this year, which means Cishek, Burdi, & Lopez are out.  That being said, I would keep using Zack down the stretch and see if he can find a way to harness his command.  His general stuff and ability to generate whiffs could be a weapon in the postseason, but right now he’s too much of a liability to warrant real consideration.  Also, in shorter series, I’d plan on using both Cease and Gonzalez out of the pen if needed.

[SonofaRoache]

We need dumming to be solid. Because we could really use Rodon in the bullpen. This being said, we do not have a playoff rotation at this point. Our bullpen isn't playoff caliber either. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by SonofaRoache

[Bob Sacamano]

Need to get Bummer healthy.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

56 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Alright guys, with a 99.9% win probability and only 19 games remaining in the regular season, it’s time to start thinking about our potential post-season roster.  While the positional side is pretty cut & dry outside of maybe one spot, the pitching staff has a ton of question marks at the moment and lots of different options to fill up spots.  Given the overall uncertainty, I thought it would be an interesting exercise to see how you all would setup our pitching staff for the post-season.

For now, I’m going to assume 14 total spots, four starters / tandems, and that key injured guys are coming back (Bummer / Fry).

Rotation:

1. Giolito
2. Keuchel*
3. Rodon* + Dunning
4. Gonzalez* + Cease

We all know that Giolito & Keuchel are locks for the top two spots in the rotation, but after that things get a bit scary.  For me, Dunning has passed Cease and should be our primary #3 starter in the playoffs.  However, given potential innings restrictions for Dane, I’d like to see us use Rodon as an opener for him.  And when a fourth starter is needed, I’d like to see a Gonzalez & Cease tandem with Gio more or less serving as Dylan’s opener.  Now, if Dylan can get hot down the stretch I’d potentially reconsider, but so far his peripherals have been ugly and he will likely require a short leash come the playoffs.

Bullpen:

• CL: Colome
• SU: Bummer*
• SU: Marshall
• MR: Foster
• MR: Heuer
• MR: Fry*
• MR: Detwiler*
• MR: Cordero

Ultimately I’m going with the guys who have been effective this year, which means Cishek, Burdi, & Lopez are out.  That being said, I would keep using Zack down the stretch and see if he can find a way to harness his command.  His general stuff and ability to generate whiffs could be a weapon in the postseason, but right now he’s too much of a liability to warrant real consideration.  Also, in shorter series, I’d plan on using both Cease and Gonzalez out of the pen if needed.

Too few starts for Dunning to put him ahead of Cease. But as you said it depends on how they finish the season.

The Sox are more of a traditional pitching staff and probably want starters in the playoffs to go as long as they can unless they get hit hard early. Cease appears to be able to carry his stuff into later innings though he can never get to those innings because of his command. Dunning is still working on extending his pitch count and as we saw with Rodon and Lambert during the season and with Burdi ,the comeback trail is fraught with landmines.

I think the bullpen is so shaky and Rodon's health issues should mean he's a bullpen piece for the rest of this year. He may not like it but at this point he should worry about building some type of value to resurrect his career rather than being a prima donna. There's a very real chance he gets non tendered unless he can stay on the field and produce.

If MLB teams decide to non tender more than the usual amount of players due to trying to save money Rodon could be gone . Then there is a cheap talent pool out there for all teams to choose to rebuild the back end of rosters.

Gonzalez should also be in the pen . Gonzalez , Rodon, Detwiler, Marshall, Cordero, Foster, Colome, Heuer  is the no Bummer BP which might be what we have to deal with. Outside shot of Lopez if they want to see what he can do in the last few weeks. Fry and Burdi are also possibilities. Cischek would really have to pull it together very quickly from now to the end of the season but I doubt he will have enough chances to do that. The new rules regarding how many batters you must pitch to make the veteran guys more reliable than the kids with command issues like Fry and Burdi.

Foster should probably be the 8th inning guy unless Bummer can return strong. Don't use him for multiple innings to keep him fresh even though the temptation will be great especially in games that could decide a series.

Edited September 7, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Chicago White Sox]

26 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Too few starts for Dunning to put him ahead of Cease. But as you said it depends on how they finish the season.

The Sox are more of a traditional pitching staff and probably want starters in the playoffs to go as long as they can unless they get hit hard early. Cease appears to be able to carry his stuff into later innings though he can never get to those innings because of his command. Dunning is still working on extending his pitch count and as we saw with Rodon and Lambert during the season and with Burdi ,the comeback trail is fraught with landmines.

I just don’t see how we bank on Cease going very long in the postseason.  His numbers are terrible outside of a flukey ERA and against good lineups he will likely get lit up if nothing changes.  Right now, I’d like to limit my reliance on him, which means going with Dane as our #3 starter and having Gonzalez be his opener.

[tray]

Bummer is throwing but no word yet how the nerve issue in his biceps is responding.  There are reports that Rodon has new injury issues. Keuchel has back issues that flair up from time to time.  The WSox have lost confidence in ReyLo and he has lost confidence in himself.  No Crochet this year I guess. There just aren't enough horses in the pitching stable to make a long run into the play-offs. After constructing a  killer line-up the Sox could get checkmated in the playoffs if the pitching staff continues to get depleted. And what if Giolito or Keuchel lose a play-off game?  That would pretty much make the odds of winning a playoff series almost insurmountable.

[mqr]

Whatever you do don’t look at Zack wheelers numbers. 

[GermanSoxFan]

People would be losing their shit about his low strikeout numbers

[SonofaRoache]

28 minutes ago, mqr said:

Whatever you do don’t look at Zack wheelers numbers. 

DK has been good enough to not worry about him. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I just don’t see how we bank on Cease going very long in the postseason.  His numbers are terrible outside of a flukey ERA and against good lineups he will likely get lit up if nothing changes.  Right now, I’d like to limit my reliance on him, which means going with Dane as our #3 starter and having Gonzalez be his opener.

Its 6 of one and half dozen of the other so nothing is definite yet. Just have to see who pitches best down the stretch. Dunning in his 2nd start kept us in the game but his fastball was down a few ticks and he had worse command  Could be fatigue whereas Cease has no problem with fatigue lessening his stuff usually. He's still been 97 in 6th and the one time I think he went into the 7th. Oh well thats life with young pitchers. That's why I wanted Lynn . Guess his price was too high.

[tray]

The Sox may have to do the unthinkable ....bring ReyLo back up for another start or two...especially if Keuchel's back has to be rested.

Cishek is not an option in any important game where the Sox need a hold in late innings.

Our bullpen is going to be  pitching on on fumes by the time the play-offs start.   What a waste of a year when we finally have a line-up that crushes the baseball.

[Quin]

1 hour ago, mqr said:

Whatever you do don’t look at Zack wheelers numbers. 

With the Sox offering the most money, I'm over Zack Wheeler.

They did what they could do short of moving the team to Jersey.

[mqr]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

With the Sox offering the most money, I'm over Zack Wheeler.

They did what they could do short of moving the team to Jersey.

Yeah I’m not upset about it, I just checked today and he’s be real nice to have. 
 

Though I don’t imagine you have both him and Keuchal in any universe.

[Sarava]

7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Alright guys, with a 99.9% win probability and only 19 games remaining in the regular season, it’s time to start thinking about our potential post-season roster.  While the positional side is pretty cut & dry outside of maybe one spot, the pitching staff has a ton of question marks at the moment and lots of different options to fill up spots.  Given the overall uncertainty, I thought it would be an interesting exercise to see how you all would setup our pitching staff for the post-season.

For now, I’m going to assume 14 total spots, four starters / tandems, and that key injured guys are coming back (Bummer / Fry).

Rotation:

1. Giolito
2. Keuchel*
3. Rodon* + Dunning
4. Gonzalez* + Cease

We all know that Giolito & Keuchel are locks for the top two spots in the rotation, but after that things get a bit scary.  For me, Dunning has passed Cease and should be our primary #3 starter in the playoffs.  However, given potential innings restrictions for Dane, I’d like to see us use Rodon as an opener for him.  And when a fourth starter is needed, I’d like to see a Gonzalez & Cease tandem with Gio more or less serving as Dylan’s opener.  Now, if Dylan can get hot down the stretch I’d potentially reconsider, but so far his peripherals have been ugly and he will likely require a short leash come the playoffs.

Bullpen:

• CL: Colome
• SU: Bummer*
• SU: Marshall
• MR: Foster
• MR: Heuer
• MR: Fry*
• MR: Detwiler*
• MR: Cordero

Ultimately I’m going with the guys who have been effective this year, which means Cishek, Burdi, & Lopez are out.  That being said, I would keep using Zack down the stretch and see if he can find a way to harness his command.  His general stuff and ability to generate whiffs could be a weapon in the postseason, but right now he’s too much of a liability to warrant real consideration.  Also, in shorter series, I’d plan on using both Cease and Gonzalez out of the pen if needed.

Hard to argue with any of this.

The Sox probably don't have the rotation depth to make a World Series run. Hope I'm wrong of course. And as much as I hate to do this, if Cease continues to struggle, we may have to give Reynaldo another chance at the rotation. 

[HOFHurt35]

This season is reminding me of 2000.  Tremendous offense with questionable pitching.   At least we have a 1A type horse at the top in Giolito this time, instead of Jim Parque for game 1.   

[EloyJenkins]

If Sox are up against a lefty the 3rd or 4th game it honestly isn't a big deal if it's dunning or cease. Just get 5 innings in.

[South Side Hit Men]

Starters: 1. Keuchel; 2. Giolito; 3. Cease; 4. Dunning.

Long (2-3 IP): 1. Foster; 2. Gonzalez

Short (1 IP) Middle: 1. Detwiler; 2. Cordero; 3. Heuer; 4. Cishek 

Setup: 7th Rodon; 8th Marshall

Closer: Colome (Edit - thanks @CaliSoxFanViaSWside )

Off the roster: Burdi, Flores, McRae

I personally would consider rostering Burdi if they plan on keeping him beyond this year for experience. Cishek can pitch in mop up / eat innings in a blowout. Assuming Bummer remains on the IL.

Edited September 8, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[MackowiakYakYak]

6 hours ago, Quin said:

With the Sox offering the most money, I'm over Zack Wheeler.

They did what they could do short of moving the team to Jersey.

I like that he was our guy and he’s ended up being great. Shows that we are looking at the right free agents even if they decide to go elsewhere for non-$ reasons

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Starters: 1. Keuchel; 2. Giolito; 3. Cease; 4. Dunning.

Long (2-3 IP): 1. Foster; 2. Gonzalez

Short (1 IP) Middle: 1. Detwiler; 2. Cordero; 3. Heuer; 4. Cishek 

Setup: 7th Rodon; 8th Marshall

Closer: Cordero

Off the roster: Burdi, Flores, McRae

I personally would consider rostering Burdi if they plan on keeping him beyond this year for experience. Cishek can pitch in mop up / eat innings in a blowout. Assuming Bummer remains on the IL.

Have to disagree with Foster as a long guy. He's been used as a 2 inning guy and excelled at it but he's our best reliever at this point. I know he hasn't pitched a lot but our options are slim in the 7th and 8th innings unless Bummer can come back. and Cordero has been overworked and that high ERA just isn't usable in those late inning situations. Cordero has been at his best with runners on base , maybe that's a fluke but hard to tell what is and isn't real in a short season.

At this time we're going to have to stick with Foster, Marshall ,Detwiler and Heuer as the main setup guys 6th through 8th inning .Rodon has a long way to go in a short amount of time to prove he belongs in a set up role. I'm sure you also meant Colome not Cordero as the closer.

Edited September 8, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[South Side Hit Men]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Have to disagree with Foster as a long guy. He's been used as a 2 inning guy and excelled at it but he's our best reliever at this point. I know he hasn't pitched a lot but our options are slim in the 7th and 8th innings unless Bummer can come back. and Cordero has been overworked and that high ERA just isn't usable in those late inning situations. Cordero has been at his best with runners on base , maybe that's a fluke but hard to tell what is and isn't real in a short season.

At this time we're going to have to stick with Foster, Marshall ,Detwiler and Heuer as the main setup guys 6th through 8th inning .Rodon has a long way to go in a short amount of time to prove he belongs in a set up role. I'm sure you also meant Colome not Cordero as the closer.

Thanks for pointing out Colome. I envisioned Foster working in a close ball game, either coming in after Cease or Dunning in the mid innings. Gio can come if a starter can't get out of the first three innings, to save the bullpen.

Cooper/Renteria have really relied on Cordero as the first reliever in. I agree he isn't necessarily the best option, but he is the best option in terms of what they see, which is why I listed him second behind Detwiler. Rodon has to come back period, but assuming he can be comfortable warming up and coming in on shorter notice than a starter can prepare, I believe his best role at least for this year is 6th/7th inning work, with Marshall handling the eighth. I can see your point about Heuer, DC/RR is more hesitant using him.

All teams are at a disadvantage this year in terms of developing a bullpen. We have a much younger bullpen than many contenders, so the entire month against good teams will shake out more definitive October roles. Hahn didn't add anything, and Bummer's injury has hurt the reliability beyond a few good performers at this point. Hope one or two more can step up between now and season end, or that they get more comfortable with the strong performers like Foster, Detwiler and Heuer, if they can continue pitching well through September.

Where you among the SoCal WSI fans that gathered for the 2005 ALCS Angels series?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Thanks for pointing out Colome. I envisioned Foster working in a close ball game, either coming in after Cease or Dunning in the mid innings. Gio can come if a starter can't get out of the first three innings, to save the bullpen.

Cooper/Renteria have really relied on Cordero as the first reliever in. I agree he isn't necessarily the best option, but he is the best option in terms of what they see, which is why I listed him second behind Detwiler. Rodon has to come back period, but assuming he can be comfortable warming up and coming in on shorter notice than a starter can prepare, I believe his best role at least for this year is 6th/7th inning work, with Marshall handling the eighth. I can see your point about Heuer, DC/RR is more hesitant using him.

All teams are at a disadvantage this year in terms of developing a bullpen. We have a much younger bullpen than many contenders, so the entire month against good teams will shake out more definitive October roles. Hahn didn't add anything, and Bummer's injury has hurt the reliability beyond a few good performers at this point. Hope one or two more can step up between now and season end, or that they get more comfortable with the strong performers like Foster, Detwiler and Heuer, if they can continue pitching well through September.

Where you among the SoCal WSI fans that gathered for the 2005 ALCS Angels series?

No I was a member here then. You can see that as my signature at the bottom of my posts where I list a bunch of Soxtalk members who were in So Cal at the time. There really was no official So Cal Chapter of Soxtalk. It was just something I made up in my head. I did attend the game 5 clincher in Anaheim with my buddy White Sox Murph who I got to join this site but he never became a contributing member. If you have the DVD of the Chicago White Sox 2005 World Series Collectors Edition  the fifth game to win the pennant in Anaheim, there was a part of it during the Pepsi 7th inning fan cam where they showed a little boy sitting on his fathers lap. That was White Sox Murph and his son Cooper.We grew up together in Chicago on the SW side. I was right next to them but it was a tight shot so I wasn't on camera.

As far as the bullpen goes I didn't really care how they have been used to this point only with how I envision them being used in the playoffs. I want our best guys on in the 7th and 8th before Colome when we are ahead in order of who I see as the best options without Bummer. 1. Foster 2. Tossup between Heuer and Marshall 3. Detwiler but of course it all depends on who is batting. Detwiler if the upcoming hitters are left handed. I'd haven't checked their splits but that's for more in depth analysis.

Cordero I see as being used to bail out a starter with men on base and not much more than that.

Edited September 8, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[NWINFan]

18 hours ago, tray said:

The Sox may have to do the unthinkable ....bring ReyLo back up for another start or two...especially if Keuchel's back has to be rested.

Cishek is not an option in any important game where the Sox need a hold in late innings.

Our bullpen is going to be  pitching on on fumes by the time the play-offs start.   What a waste of a year when we finally have a line-up that crushes the baseball.

I really think this is unthinkable. I doubt that Lopez will get past the second inning. And Rodon is mentioned as having some role. When was the last time he threw a pitch?

[South Side Hit Men]

9 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No I was a member here then. You can see that as my signature at the bottom of my posts where I list a bunch of Soxtalk members who were in So Cal at the time. There really was no official So Cal Chapter of Soxtalk. It was just something I made up in my head. I did attend the game 5 clincher in Anaheim with my buddy White Sox Murph who I got to join this site but he never became a contributing member. If you have the DVD of the Chicago White Sox 2005 World Series Collectors Edition  the fifth game to win the pennant in Anaheim, there was a part of it during the Pepsi 7th inning fan cam where they showed a little boy sitting on his fathers lap. That was White Sox Murph and his son Cooper.We grew up together in Chicago on the SW side. I was right next to them but it was a tight shot so I wasn't on camera.

As far as the bullpen goes I didn't really care how they have been used to this point only with how I envision them being used in the playoffs. I want our best guys on in the 7th and 8th before Colome when we are ahead in order of who I see as the best options without Bummer. 1. Foster 2. Tossup between Heuer and Marshall 3. Detwiler but of course it all depends on who is batting. Detwiler if the upcoming hitters are left handed. I'd haven't checked their splits but that's for more in depth analysis.

Cordero I see as being used to bail out a starter with men on base and not much more than that.

Very nice, it is awesome you and your friend and his son were able to attend the clincher in Anaheim. Obviously I'm new here, but on White Sox Interactive there was a strong contingent who also attended the games at the time. I was on that site for 3 or 4 years before being banned by the nazi's there (several thousand posts there over the years) with most of my friends there (Chips, Cheeses, Yoda et al). Dropped out of all Sox message boards after that experience, but decided to take the plunge here with the exciting season the Sox are having (and should have in the future). I hear what you are saying between what you want / your considered best options, my post was written in light of what has occurred and what I believe will occur.

September / October innings will be more stressful than what Foster has faced to date, so it will be interesting to see if he can sustain his success in light of his limited experience and the league getting a chance to prepare for him.  I like how he challenges hitters and isn't afraid to throw strikes. Detwiler has been a pleasant surprise as well, but I understand their baby steps approach with him to help build on his current year success. He is playing well above his career norms (1.59 ERA this year, 6.98 (2019), 4.50 (2018), 5.13 (career)), and I understand the conservative approach to ensure he is comfortable to maintain his success. There will be opportunities to give him higher leverage opportunities against the Twins, Cleveland and the Cubs before the games REALLY matter.

Hoping to return to the West Coast (San Diego, Long Beach and Vegas) this winter, returned home March 10th a few days before Chicago lock downs, and with continued closures haven't planned a return trip but would like to when things can reopen.

Edited September 8, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[35thstreetswarm]

Every time I think about how we’ll have to scrape together a rotation to help this dynamic offense in the playoffs I can’t help but get really annoyed with Kopech.  This season is such a perfect opportunity for him to contribute to something special.  His team needs him; he’s not here.  I’m really not accustomed to finding myself on what’s considered the “meatball” end of the fan spectrum, but here we are. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

The overuse of the bullpen has been building up since the first couple of weeks. Guys always want to know why certain guys aren't pitching and certain are and it has a lot to do with the year long management as well as the day to day.

The White Sox are averaging 4.85 IP per Start; it's not good, but it's actually not anywhere near the worst this year. The Red Sox are only getting 3.8 IP per start. The Sox are actually 11th in baseball in IP per start, so they are not alone in this issue. Is that different than most years? 

The Sox would be on pace to throw 785 IP with their starters over the course of a 162 game season. Last year that would have ranked them 26th out of 30 teams in all of baseball in fewest IP by starters. That means clearly this year has moved the needled heavily in favor of bullpens. What does that mean? Really, who knows. If the Bullpens are worn down earlier, it could lead to a higher scoring post season or more reliance on the starters to go longer since they were the ones preserved earlier in the season. If Cease can figure it out that bodes well for the Sox, imo, as the starting pitching around baseball is struggling in general. 

Last year, White Sox relievers threw 574 IP in 162 games; this year, the Sox are on pace to throw 235 innings in just 60 games, which would equate to 634.6 IP in the course of a regular year. The Sox are leaning on their bullpen significantly more than years past, and they're hoping it bends at points but never breaks. Time will tell, but next time you're wondering why Renteria doesn't pull every starter at the first sign of weakness, this is why.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run