NFL Thread 2020-2021

[bmags]

28 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I agree with lines 1 and 3. Disagree with line 2.

This team went 8-8 with terrible coaching.  They have a lot of talent and a good coach has them 10-6 or better.  I think they need to get rid of Nagy and keep building on what they have.

I don't know. I think they'll be at a severe hiring disadvantage this year. 

Nagy needs to be pressed to officially give up the reins on offense. But obviously there is another big issue this year in that on his specialty (offense), he didn't really seem to know both how to use his players and who his best players were.

Examples:

- Suffering through Coward at RT for weeks before finally making switch to an average oline by beefing up the interior play with knocking out ifedi and moving in westipher. The good news is now I feel good about our lg/c/rg situation and we get to try Bars at RT or draft pick.

- Quarterback - mitch wasn't good, but it's clear "his offense" with Foles wasn't better than structuring an offense around Mitch's strengths, which he then seemed to resist in the last few weeks. Tailoring an offense to mitch's strengths >> "Nagy" offense with Foles

- RB - early in the year there was a bunch of comments on Montgomery being a bust. But the play of Mike Davis in Carolina put a spotlight on whether Nagy was the one killing the RBs. The OC switch (and oline) showed Montgomery to be a fully capable back in this system. The good news - RB is set. The Bad news - why the fuck was he running Cordarelle patterson on short down plays so often to start year...

- TE - Pick your poison here. I'll be generous and say Kmet may have not been ready. But the early season decisions to not use Graham in the red zone packages is just non-sensical. While Coward should have not been on the roster, Graham being what you'd hope he'd be, Kmet's late season play, Montgomery/Davis, and handpicking foles really drives home that Nagy was not using the talent being given to him by pace. And it wasn't amazing talent, but clearly better than he was making use out of.

But it all started to work, and with a better oline, I can definitely see an offense tailored to Trubisky's strengths next year being probably better than any acquisition with the exception of Stafford which I don't know how to make possible.

Defensively, Quinn was a huge bust and that's 100% on Pace. Mack has really disappointed. Really only Hicks lives up to his impact. But Smith was excellent this year, and with some additional growth in the secondary and a better scheme along with Goldman coming back it seems possible that Goldman/Hicks/Nichols is a plus front 3 and they need to find more production out of their existing OLBs.

The problem obviously is timing. It seems like a terrible year for the bears to hire, it seems obnoxious to extend Pace to get him out of his own mess. But, I just don't see a new coach making a huge impact as they do play hard under Nagy. They just need to face up, commit him to the HC/non-coordinator role, and get a new DC.

The only progress I can see happening is a legit football prez coming in and new GM. 

But it's rick smith or bust. They need legit, unabashed leader. Not another learning on the job guy.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Help me understand it correctly:

 

2012: Lovie, you went 10-6, & had a Super Bowl appearance during your tenure as coach. Your defenses have generally been good, and your teams have generally been able to avoid massive blunders more often than not. That's not good enough! You're fired.

 

2021: Matt Nagy, you went 8-8. You backed into the playoffs by bumslaying shitty teams, while getting b****-slapped by good teams. Your offenses have generally sucked a horses ass, while your teams have been able to fuck up over and over. You've never made it to a Super Bowl... You get to keep your job. WOOOO!!!! PLAYOFFS!!!! WOOOO!!!!

 

Do I have this correct?

Edited January 4, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[bmags]

14 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Help me understand it correctly:

 

2012: Lovie, you went 10-6, & had a Super Bowl appearance during your tenure as coach. Your defenses have generally been good, and your teams have generally been able to avoid massive blunders more often than not. That's not good enough! You're fired.

 

2021: Matt Nagy, you went 8-8. You backed into the playoffs by bumslaying shitty teams, while getting b****-slapped by good teams. Your offenses have generally sucked a horses ass, while your teams have been able to fuck up over and over. You've never made it to a Super Bowl... You get to keep your job. WOOOO!!!! PLAYOFFS!!!! WOOOO!!!!

 

Do I have this correct?

I don't know that they viewed the Lovie-to-Trestman play as a positive experience to replicate.

[Kyyle23]

14 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Unfortunately Alabama isn't stupid enough to hire him. There's only one program that's both stupid enough to hire Gase and unlikeable enough to wish they would, but I'd just as soon they let Jim Harbaugh fail for a few more years.

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't know that they viewed the Lovie-to-Trestman play as a positive experience to replicate.

And I don't know what Nagy has done to earn the right to continue coaching here.

 

I thought that Lovie rightly paid for underperformance by losing his job. I'd like to know why this same standard isn't applied to Nagy. Especially since Lovie's defenses were generally good, while Nagys offenses have been garbage in general.

[ptatc]

Interesting article in the Athletic about how LaFleur in GB doesn't report to Gutekunst the GM but rather Murphy the team President. The coach and GM are equal in position just with different responsibilities. I wonder how common this is as opposed to the traditional model where the coach reports to the GM?

[southsider2k5]

 

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Is this to replace Pace?

[Kyyle23]

Just now, ptatc said:

Is this to replace Pace?

I think it's to move Phillips back to the pure money role and to have a true Director of Football Ops

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

I think it's to move Phillips back to the pure money role and to have a true Director of Football Ops

That would be a good move.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

That would be a good move.

It's long overdue,  by all accounts the guy is a financial wizard.   But he should not have been making football side decisions 

[ShoeLessRob]

As others have said in this thread. They went all in 2018 and if it weren’t for the double doink who knows what would have happened. As it stands you have an older team, that has rapidly declined on defense (whether that’s individual players or the scheme that Pagano uses). No cap room at all (will have to cut or restructure several current contracts) due to several bloated contracts (why the hell was Quinn signed). Nagy is not an offensive guru as sold. We’re probably losing Allen Robinson. Trubisky is what he is. Not sure why we traded for Foles. 
 

We are the best of the worst teams in the NFL, stuck in NFL purgatory. They really need to clean house and commit to a rebuild, but I don’t see that happening this off season since they “made the playoffs”.

[Balta1701]

12 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

The bigger question is why did Nagy take back play calling for this game. I really couldn’t figure out why they weren’t throwing any intermediary routes. Mitch should have had plenty of chances for 10-20 yard play action strikes but it just didn’t look like they were calling it. 
 

Mitch is clearly not a top5 QB - no debating that. But I still think you keep him and look at someone like Trask or if one of the many top qbs are there in 1st go  ahead and think about it. 
 

I’m also digging into what happened with Wentz. Last year he was special with crap around him. I think Pederson is a mess right now and Wentz failed this year - but he had a lot of franchise qb in him. 

FWIW, I think the lack of intermediate routes was a big part of the game plan. It was to make sure everything possible was complete, minimize turnovers, eventually set up one big strike (which succeeded), but most importantly it slowed the game down to keep Rodgers off the field. It was actually pretty effective until they finally hit that 4th down where they couldn't convert.

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

FWIW, I think the lack of intermediate routes was a big part of the game plan. It was to make sure everything possible was complete, minimize turnovers, eventually set up one big strike (which succeeded), but most importantly it slowed the game down to keep Rodgers off the field. It was actually pretty effective until they finally hit that 4th down where they couldn't convert.

I agree with this. But disliked the lack of imagination in the run game.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Nagy was supposed to be an offensive guru but it was LeFleur's schemes that had numerous open offensive targets, Rodgers is way tf too good to have that many open targets. So not only does GB have us outgunned by offensive talent, their coaching is tiers above ours. As long as the coaching is this lopsided, we will continue to be their punching bag.

Edited January 4, 2021 by MexSoxFan#1

[bmags]

So 7 teams now hiring GMs. 

[Soxbadger]

1 hour ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

Nagy was supposed to be an offensive guru but it was LeFleur's schemes that had numerous open offensive targets, Rodgers is way tf too good to have that many open targets. So not only does GB have us outgunned by offensive talent, their coaching is tiers above ours. As long as the coaching is this lopsided, we will continue to be their punching bag.

Its really easy running plays with a HOF qb who is having a careee year. Defense has to scheme for Adams who is a pro bowler.

If Nagy had Rodgers hed be considered an offensive genius.

[pcq]

Anybody think the Bills are for real. Their passing game is awesome and they seem to be peaking at the right time. Would love to see a Chiefs matchup. They open hosting the Colts and Rivers is not a cold weather QB. 

[Chisoxfn]

2 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

Its really easy running plays with a HOF qb who is having a careee year. Defense has to scheme for Adams who is a pro bowler.

If Nagy had Rodgers hed be considered an offensive genius.

This - and they have a good defense. Let’s not ignore fact a week ago the same team shredded a good Titans team. 
 

Bears are not in Packers league but that might be because they are the best team in the league (yes I am counting chiefs in this too - I don’t think anyone is playing any better than them).

[Chisoxfn]

3 minutes ago, pcq said:

Anybody think the Bills are for real. Their passing game is awesome and they seem to be peaking at the right time. Would love to see a Chiefs matchup. They open hosting the Colts and Rivers is not a cold weather QB. 

I don’t see Chiefs repeating. Maybe they are just bored but lately they haven’t looked quite as good. I think Bills could do it - that said - despite how they looked - I wouldn’t bet against Mahomes. 

[pcq]

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

I don’t see Chiefs repeating. Maybe they are just bored but lately they haven’t looked quite as good. I think Bills could do it - that said - despite how they looked - I wouldn’t bet against Mahomes. 

Agreed on Mahomes and these two teams' QB's make the Bears look sick. Chiefs will turn it up a notch after their bye week. Josh has a shot at MVP from what I hear with some record numbers. 

[ptatc]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

So 7 teams now hiring GMs. 

Are you including Denver?

[bmags]

38 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Are you including Denver?

I thought so. I think it’s 7 GM jobs and 6 HC

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, pcq said:

Agreed on Mahomes and these two teams' QB's make the Bears look sick. Chiefs will turn it up a notch after their bye week. Josh has a shot at MVP from what I hear with some record numbers. 

Allen will come in 3rd in the MVP race. 

[scs787]

One thing I think that has been overlooked in all this.. the Bears may have found fixes to the interior of the line, but Charles Leno, who plays probably the most important position on the OL is ranked 47th in pressures allowed among OTs. That has to be fixed. This draft is supposed to be pretty good for OT.

 

You know who would probably look real good in the offense they were playing since Lazor stepped in? Tarik Cohen.....Montgomery isnt bad in the passing game, but I think Cohen would add so much. You would of thought Patterson would have been good in that role as a former receiver, but I guess its a whole new world coming out of the backfield. 

I really think getting Cohen back is gonna stretch the defense a bit. Cohen has shown to be really good underneath, and this would allow guys like Robinson and Kmet to work the middle of the field. Maybe getting a new LT that's worth a damn would give the offense more time to go over the top to Mooney as well. 

 

The whole conversation about the Bears babying Mitch by only having him focus on one side of the field is a little silly to me too. Pretty sure thats a main principle of a west coast offense is having 3 guys at different levels on one side of the field. 

 

If I'm the Bears, I'm going OT and WR in the first 2 rounds....And I'm franchising Robinson. Jimmy Graham can stick around too. 

 

I'm ok with the Nagy/Lazor/Mitch dynamic for 1 more year. I think they can build from what they were doing. 

Defensively? Getting Goldman back is gonna be huge assuming he stayed in shape. Johnson being back will also be huge....Idk wtf drop foot is, but it really looks like it could be a thing with Quinn, and if it heals, he could actually have a good bounce back year. Gotta bring in some depth there though...Speaking of depth, bringing back and having Roy Robertson Harris would be nice as well. Adding 2 good pieces like Goldman and RRH to the line would be a big plus.