NFL Thread 2020-2021

[Chisoxfn]

That said - I always figure if rumors are out there - deal isn't anywhere near close and we'll see another team swoop in.  Very rarely the team with all the smoke is where they end up going. Look at the Rams and Stafford and how quickly that went down. 

[bmags]

45 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Rumor is the deal is Cohen, Foles and #20 for Wentz and #37. 

Missed that eagles would give back their second. I’d be really good with this. That’s net -$16 million, which is manageable.

[Chisoxfn]

Well - I guess Cohen pulled all of his posts from his instagram page.  Does that mean there is some real smoke to this?  Also - I don't do instagram so no idea if that is true or just BS.  

[Chisoxfn]

Just now, bmags said:

Missed that eagles would give back their second. I’d be really good with this. That’s net -$16 million, which is manageable.

And if it doesn't work - the team can pretty quickly rebuild and pivot.  

[southsider2k5]

 

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Yeah I was going to post that. Seems that the rumor I saw was BS.

[justBLAZE]

Right now the rumor is Miller instead of Cohen, everything else is same.

[Soxbadger]

This is exactly why keeping Pace was the wrong move. Wentz bad throw percentage is higher than Trubisky. He is a reclamation project.

Again Pace is bidding just like Trubisky and Foles. You dont over pay for something that is a big question mark.

If someone else wants to pay value fot Wentz let them. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Soxbadger

[Jack Parkman]

16 minutes ago, bmags said:

Missed that eagles would give back their second. I’d be really good with this. That’s net -$16 million, which is manageable.

It all depends on if the Eagles give back their 2nd. If they do, I'm not thrilled, but not super angry either. 

There's precedent for a deal like that because that's how the 2nd 1 in the Mack deal was structured. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

It all depends on if the Eagles give back their 2nd. If they do, I'm not thrilled, but not super angry either. 

Its at minimum 2 more years of treading water, that is the problem.

You're paying value and taking on money for a back up QB who has major issues.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Its at minimum 2 more years of treading water, that is the problem.

You're paying value and taking on money for a back up QB who has major issues.

It's still a bad deal, don't get me wrong.

Just not Hopkins/Johnson bad.  

I think they should fire Pace before he's allowed to make this move. 

Still angry, but not football seppuku level angry. 

If they give up 20 without getting 37 back, that is football seppuku bad. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's still a bad deal, don't get me wrong.

Just not Hopkins/Johnson bad.  

I think they should fire Pace before he's allowed to make this move. 

Its not horrible, it just isn't good. And to move up the Bears need good moves.

But we shouldn't lie to ourselves, Eagles drated Hurts because they were worried Wentz wasn't good enough.

 

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Its not horrible, it just isn't good. And to move up the Bears need good moves.

But we shouldn't lie to ourselves, Eagles drated Hurts because they were worried Wentz wasn't good enough.

 

It depends. If they get 37 back, then I agree. Still bad, not horrible. 

If they don't get 37 back then it's a sick joke. It's beyond horrible in that case, and right there with Hopkins/Johnson. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Soxbadger]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It depends. If they get 37 back, then I agree. Still bad, not horrible. 

If they don't get 37 back then it's a sick joke. It's beyond horrible in that case, and right there with Hopkins/Johnson. 

This is on the presumption its basically foles 1st for wentz 2nd.

 

[bmags]

16 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

This is exactly why keeping Pace was the wrong move. Wentz bad throw percentage is higher than Trubisky. He is a reclamation project.

Again Pace is bidding just like Trubisky and Foles. You dont over pay for something that is a big question mark.

If someone else wants to pay value fot Wentz let them. 

Last year he did. In 2019 Aaron Rodgers led the league in bad throw %.

The question is whether Wentz is as bad as last year, only as good as 2019, or 2017 good still in there somewhere.

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

Last year he did. In 2019 Aaron Rodgers led the league in bad throw %.

The question is whether Wentz is as bad as last year, only as good as 2019, or 2017 good still in there somewhere.

You saved me from writing this as it’s entirely my reaction. Thanks.

[Jack Parkman]

13 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

This is on the presumption its basically foles 1st for wentz 2nd.

 

That's believable to me because that's how Pace structured the 2nd #1 in the Mack trade. 

[Chisoxfn]

21 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

This is on the presumption its basically foles 1st for wentz 2nd.

 

There is nothing that bad about the move. If it works - you have a QB at a very fair deal. If it doesn't - a new regime comes in next year and your draft a QB or whatever they want to do.  Not that bad of a set back.  Now when it turns out Bears are giving up a 1st plus another 1st or something - whole nother story.

If it is Wentz & a 2nd for Foles, 1st, and Anthony Miller - I'd say that is a pretty damn good deal.  But I'm a Wentz fan (other than this past year).  He's been a top 10 QB in the league pretty much every year but this past year.  That is a HUGE fricking upgrade from anything the Bears have had in a long time.  And just look at the Eagles offenses these past few years.  Weak wideouts, injuries, horrible oline play...the list goes on and on.  Last year it finally ruined Wentz - the key is that Bears have to hope it was more of a one year ruin where he can turn things around pretty quickly. 

I'm betting yes and if I'm wrong - who cares - it doens't set the franchise back at all.  

[Chisoxfn]

24 minutes ago, bmags said:

Last year he did. In 2019 Aaron Rodgers led the league in bad throw %.

The question is whether Wentz is as bad as last year, only as good as 2019, or 2017 good still in there somewhere.

I just want to remind people - 2019 Carson Wentz was pretty damn good.  And that is before you factor in the shit talent and oline he had to deal with. I have no clue what happened in 2020 - but It isn't like 2017/2019 Wentz didn't happen.  No Bear QB in my lifetime has ever put up a season like either of those years. 

Just read this article - he was top 5 in NFL in TD's and had few INT's all while no one even knew the names of the guys he was throwing to most of the time.  

https://www.discussthegame.com/posts/5f2587350b0cf30004326d7a

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I just want to remind people - 2019 Carson Wentz was pretty damn good.  And that is before you factor in the shit talent and oline he had to deal with. I have no clue what happened in 2020 - but It isn't like 2017/2019 Wentz didn't happen.  No Bear QB in my lifetime has ever put up a season like either of those years. 

Just read this article - he was top 5 in NFL in TD's and had few INT's all while no one even knew the names of the guys he was throwing to most of the time.  

https://www.discussthegame.com/posts/5f2587350b0cf30004326d7a

Yeah, I’m partly going on sentiment of last year. I can’t say I watched much. The numbers were good but could have been garbage time stats, etc.

Im pretty sure the “trade down” package is garbage rumor. I’m really just kinda hoping it’s not a 2021 first. Aside from team building, I just want to enjoy a damn draft lol.

[Chisoxfn]

By the way - the reason why I personally think you can throw 2020 out the window for Wentz. Terrible oline, terrible weapons, and obviously an awful head coach / QB relationship. That is not to justify / make Wentz devoid from the party - but lets face the facts - it clearly had an impact. 

And just look at his receiving corps - he basically had Goedert or running backs to throw the ball to.  He had nothing...like nothing that could stretch the field.    AN up drafted rookie from Houston (who was a converted QB) from 2017 led their team in receptions at just under 50.  And there next best wideout was some unknown from Old Dominion who played 3 games last year and had to start (Travis Fulgham).  Oh and he too was an underrated free agent.

Not to knock on updrafted free agents - but not exactly best look that your teams top 2 wideouts are complete nobodies.  I mean this receiving corps makes the Bears receiving corps with Devin Hester / Johnny Knox look good.

Note: The Eagles TE room was good though - so there is that. Goedert and Ertz are solid and Sanders is a decent back from the times I watched him (good YPC and decent hands). But no 1000 yard rusher.

I mean seriously - go look at the Eagles roster and look at the suck Wentz was throwing to and than look at who was blocking him.  No wonder he sucked ass.  

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

Rumor is the deal is Cohen, Foles and #20 for Wentz and #37. 

If we’re stuck with Pace & Nagy for at least one year, then I’d do that deal in a heartbeat.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If we’re stuck with Pace & Nagy for at least one year, then I’d do that deal in a heartbeat.

That rumor turned out to be BS dude. Sorry for posting it. 

It's likely worse than that, like #20, the Bears 3rd round pick and Miller/Foles. 

[Chisoxfn]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah, I’m partly going on sentiment of last year. I can’t say I watched much. The numbers were good but could have been garbage time stats, etc.

Im pretty sure the “trade down” package is garbage rumor. I’m really just kinda hoping it’s not a 2021 first. Aside from team building, I just want to enjoy a damn draft lol.

My preference is if you give up a 1st do it now - although technically giving up only a 1st next year is better value.  I just don't want a year from now to hand roster over if it was a mistake to someone who doesn't have a 1st round pick (god forbid the team is a dumpster fire and top 5 pick or something).  

And - if you look at the link I shared - in 2019 he was awesome in close games, awesome. He was also awesome against top 10 defenses. He was awesome in the red zone. He had one of the lowest INT ratios in the league (despite throwing the ball a ton) and he was one of the best QB's in the league on 3rd down.  Basically he nailed all the major stats in 2019 - despite having in that year almost no wideouts again (since Algalor, Desean Jackson, and Alston Jeffrey were all hurt).  

This guy literally carried the Eagles on his back in 2019. I remember watching quite a few Eagles games that year and just watching him grit his club along.  I'll also note in 2020 (switching seasons) he still ran for almost 250 yards - so presume despite some of the injuries - he still has his athleticism and arm talent.  

Note: If the Bears make this move - I'm franchising arob and probably drafting a wideout and 2 olinemen with my first couple of picks.  I also think Nagy is probably a breath of fresh air next to Pederson. Similar systems the two run - and Wentz has made the system look real good in the past - but Nagy, while he is a lot of things, seems like a players coach.  Not sure if Pederson was or wasn't - certainly didn't here many Eagles fans crying about him going - which was surprising given his super bowl win.  

[Chisoxfn]

Actually - let me make things easy - Anthony Miller is probably the best wide receiver on the Eagles last season.  Anthony freaking Miller.  Also - in my post above - I was technically wrong - the old dominion guy was a 6th round pick who was cut by the Packers and Lions before getting to Eagles.  Like I think Pace is a bad GM - but boy oh boy - how did Roseman put such a poor receiving corps out there.