2021 Needs for a WS title

[chitown87]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

He'd get paid something like $6 million if he was offered arbitration. He'd get what, an invitation to spring training and maybe a deal where he's released if he doesn't make the major league team if he was a free agent? If the White Sox have $6 million to spend, which isn't guaranteed at all - there will be better ways to spend that money.

If the Sox don't have $6 million to spend in a year where $45 million is coming off the books and they're legit contenders, then they might as well just fold it up.

I get what you're saying - covid, etc. But man, I can't describe how infuriating that would be.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, chitown87 said:

If the Sox don't have $6 million to spend in a year where $45 million is coming off the books and they're legit contenders, then they might as well just fold it up.

I get what you're saying - covid, etc. But man, I can't describe how infuriating that would be.

If the US continues choosing the worst possible path every time, and a tiny bit of bad luck happens, a $45 million paycut could be the average across the big leagues. If the first vaccine candidates aren't perfect, then we've already screwed things up so much as a country that fan limits will be guaranteed in that case. At least with Mazara and Rodon, be cheap. We have to make decisions on them way too early, they have to be offered arbitration by December and that money will be more valuable later in the offseason. If it goes into pay cuts, it goes into pay cuts. If fans become possible next year because we finally get lucky, then spending that money in February will be smarter than spending it in December. 

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, chitown87 said:

If the Sox don't have $6 million to spend in a year where $45 million is coming off the books and they're legit contenders, then they might as well just fold it up.

I get what you're saying - covid, etc. But man, I can't describe how infuriating that would be.

You shouldn't look at it that way. The team looks at reality, which is the 2020 payroll is $50.2M, of which Reinsdorf and his fellow 29 "capitalist owners" squealed like pigs saying they would be rendered homeless if a second payroll cut beyond the game/pro-rated cuts wasn't implemented, that they would lose $640K per game, yada yada yada. Yes we knew they were lying, because their mouths were moving, but this 60 game / 16 team playoff farce is the result of the greed and avarice of the "caretakers" of the game.

Cot's MLB Contracts: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C4dU46AiC_pt1GtzakmASUg9UD_UnpG32kdRZ3clOnk/edit#gid=1520401900

In 2021, the White Sox are scheduled to pay $80.3M for their top eight contracts (Grandal, Keuchel, Abreu, Anderson, Jimenez, Moncada, Robert & Bummer) plus buyouts (Cishek, Gonzalez, Garcia & Herrera), with 32 more players to go on the 40 man, including arbitration eligible players (Mazara, Rodon, Marshall, Sanchez, Giolito, Lopez, Fry, Engel, Delmonico). The White Sox are well double the current year payroll without player salary concessions, and they will likely be in the $110-$115M range with the current arbitration process, and without signing McCann, Colome, Mazara, Parrot, Garcia, Dyson or Detwiller, and not replacing them with anyone beyond the Major League Minimum Salary.

People can post what they want, but the thought that they would bring back McCann at $18M, Bauer at his going rate, or any high price FA this year is not based in reality. 

• Business are not open in large parts of downtown, these same businesses will be lining up to buy White Sox skyboxes?
• Many people are out of work, or making less than their previous salary. These people will be lining up to get into Comiskey?
• Restaurants and bars are operating at limited capacity. Comiskey will be open to 40,000 for opening day in six months?
• Most reasonable estimates are a vaccine will be offered sometime in 2021 at the earliest (Cy Young Award Contender Fauci said late 2021 the other day). Do people expect a change to current operating guidelines before then, or near unanimous production, distribution, acceptance and proven success of a vaccine in six months? That people will want to sit shoulder to shoulder in crowded stadiums prior to vaccine and complete eradication of significant health risk, likely not to occur for at least 1-2 years from today.

The Sox do not have TV revenue to make up for loss of significant to all of their attendance revenue, they don't have an ownership group willing to take on any operating losses, regardless of the billions in capital and realized gains earned over 40 years, and they don't have an incentive to spend to jump a couple TV local ratings points. We will know in six months what normal will look like for 2021, but it is very likely to look more like 2020 than 2019, 2006 or any other year pre-COVID.

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[ron883]

16 hours ago, Sox80 said:

I'm curious why Nimmo? His career numbers aren't even that good.   

 

16 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Id prefer mcneil personally but nimmo would be a big upgrade.  when healthy in 2018 he put up a 4+ WAR, and if this was a full season hed be on pace for about a 3.3 WAR.  Hes also got several years of control left.  hes a solid player that is just entering his peak years.  But really any one of the four of them would be nice to get.  

Chisox1917 nailed it. I am infatuated by Nimmo because he consistently posts great OBPs, is left handed, and currently plays CF. I see no reason why he can't play a good corner outfield. This team could really use another lefty and another high OBP player. Add in the improved OF defense, and he would be a huge plus for this team. Nimmo would just be hitting his prime. There would be 2 years left on his contract. It would just be the perfect fit. Here's to hoping the Mets have a firesale this offseason.

 

Conforto would be an amazing get as well. I would love either of them.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Yearnin' for Yermin

[southsider2k5]

To win in 2021 they need more pitching.  Whether that is going outside of the organization to sign a new #1, or getting top end work out of a guy like Cease or Kopech, or getting steps in from guys like Stiever, Lopez, and/or Dunning, that is tough to say.

[Jnooch]

I have to agree with you and Im almost comfortable with not addressing RF next season and staying with a Mazzara/Engle platoon.

I'm thinking  Vaughn will be up early to replace EE and I expect an improved Moncada next season. Id rather address The pitching staff and making a run at McCann without being ridiculous. Possibly signing McCann might have a positive influence on extending Lucas?

[ron883]

19 minutes ago, Jnooch said:

I have to agree with you and Im almost comfortable with not addressing RF next season and staying with a Mazzara/Engle platoon.

I'm thinking  Vaughn will be up early to replace EE and I expect an improved Moncada next season. Id rather address The pitching staff and making a run at McCann without being ridiculous. Possibly signing McCann might have a positive influence on extending Lucas?

The Sox need to shoot for better out of their OF. Finding somebody better than those two shouldnt be too difficult or costly.

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The Sox need to shoot for better out of their OF. Finding somebody better than those two shouldnt be too difficult or costly.

They do, but it is also the third most important hole to fill this winter.

1st is starting pitching

2nd is some veteran relief help to fill middle innings and take some stress off of the kid relievers.

3rd is RF.  I know it is a blackhole right, but with the surplus of offense in this line up as it stands now, I could go to war with a Mazara/Engel platoon in RF if it means we got #1 and #2 fixed.

[Jerksticks]

31 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They do, but it is also the third most important hole to fill this winter.

1st is starting pitching

2nd is some veteran relief help to fill middle innings and take some stress off of the kid relievers.

3rd is RF.  I know it is a blackhole right, but with the surplus of offense in this line up as it stands now, I could go to war with a Mazara/Engel platoon in RF if it means we got #1 and #2 fixed.

Same.  We need another guy that gives a dominant 6-7IP every 5th day.  That would do worlds to help your #2 issue.  

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1. Top end starter (can this come from Kopech/Cease/Dunning)

2. Bullpen

3. Bullpen

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 hour ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Conforto would be an amazing get as well. I would love either of them.

He's an MVP candidate.  

[fathom]

50 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The Sox need to shoot for better out of their OF. Finding somebody better than those two shouldnt be too difficult or costly.

They’re going to in RF, shocked how many seem ok with Mazara returning. 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

They’re going to in RF, shocked how many seem ok with Mazara returning. 

Its not about being OK with it, it is about prioritizing the most important things and realizing that spending will be MUCH different this winter than it was last winter.  Even with $45 million coming off of the books this year, about half of that is already spent in raises for guys who are getting raises next year, as well as buy outs.  

[bmags]

Until I hear different from new owner I just don't think mets are going to rebuild or take a step back. They are just going to keep plowing in until it all breaks spectacularly.

I think pitcher is going to be Odorizzi.

[ron883]

22 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He's an MVP candidate.  

Yeah, i don't think he is as realistic of a candidate. That's why i have been pining for Nimmo. I thought that guy brought up Conforto instead of McNeil, which is why i said that.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Yearnin' for Yermin

[SonofaRoache]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Its not about being OK with it, it is about prioritizing the most important things and realizing that spending will be MUCH different this winter than it was last winter.  Even with $45 million coming off of the books this year, about half of that is already spent in raises for guys who are getting raises next year, as well as buy outs.  

I am confident Jerry will get it done. He's had conversations with Hahn and Kenny about ways to improve our offense for this season. Jerry wants a title badly and I can see him opening up the book for Bauer and a competent RF on shorter deals. The money the organization would get from being a juggernaut and on TV a lot would compensate for money spent. 

[fathom]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Its not about being OK with it, it is about prioritizing the most important things and realizing that spending will be MUCH different this winter than it was last winter.  Even with $45 million coming off of the books this year, about half of that is already spent in raises for guys who are getting raises next year, as well as buy outs.  

And even with all that, I think there’s like a 95 pct chance he’s gone.  When the hitting coach says he doesn’t know how to fix him and your announcer, who’s close with the front office, is extremely critical...the writing is on the wall.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

I am confident Jerry will get it done. He's had conversations with Hahn and Kenny about ways to improve our offense for this season. Jerry wants a title badly and I can see him opening up the book for Bauer and a competent RF on shorter deals. The money the organization would get from being a juggernaut and on TV a lot would compensate for money spent. 

Michael Brantley seems like someone the Sox would love to have in the outfield given his lefty bat and past attempt to get him.

[SoxBlanco]

Is Colome an option for next year?  Everybody talks as if he's as good as gone after this year, but I think he's one of the most under-appreciated Sox pitchers in a long time because he makes things interesting a bit too often. However, it's not like guys are hitting rockets right at the defenders all the time when he's in there. He gets legitimate swing and misses on that nasty cutter. Ask almost every fan base if their closer makes things interesting in the 9th inning, and they will all probably tell you something similar. With Colome, it's tough to argue with the White Sox record when leading after 8 innings over the past two seasons. I'm not positive, but I think we've only lost one game.

[Balta1701]

14 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Is Colome an option for next year?  Everybody talks as if he's as good as gone after this year, but I think he's one of the most under-appreciated Sox pitchers in a long time because he makes things interesting a bit too often. However, it's not like guys are hitting rockets right at the defenders all the time when he's in there. He gets legitimate swing and misses on that nasty cutter. Ask almost every fan base if their closer makes things interesting in the 9th inning, and they will all probably tell you something similar. With Colome, it's tough to argue with the White Sox record when leading after 8 innings over the past two seasons. I'm not positive, but I think we've only lost one game.

The White Sox clearly could use additional veteran relief help next year so there's no reason Colome can't be an option, he fits a lot of this team's needs and they're already familiar with him. He's one of the better relievers on the market this offseason. 

[Buehrle>Wood]

18 hours ago, Sox80 said:

I'm curious why Nimmo? His career numbers aren't even that good.   

Because this is soxtalk.com and everyone is inexplicably obsessed with him. Dont ask questions.

[Sox80]

59 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Because this is soxtalk.com and everyone is inexplicably obsessed with him. Dont ask questions.

Gotcha! 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

Michael Brantley seems like someone the Sox would love to have in the outfield given his lefty bat and past attempt to get him.

We need they went hard after him before and may of had the best offer, but does he have the arm for RF?

[beautox]

15 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You shouldn't look at it that way. The team looks at reality, which is the 2020 payroll is $50.2M, of which Reinsdorf and his fellow 29 "capitalist owners" squealed like pigs saying they would be rendered homeless if a second payroll cut beyond the game/pro-rated cuts wasn't implemented, that they would lose $640K per game, yada yada yada. Yes we knew they were lying, because their mouths were moving, but this 60 game / 16 team playoff farce is the result of the greed and avarice of the "caretakers" of the game.

Cot's MLB Contracts: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C4dU46AiC_pt1GtzakmASUg9UD_UnpG32kdRZ3clOnk/edit#gid=1520401900

In 2021, the White Sox are scheduled to pay $80.3M for their top eight contracts (Grandal, Keuchel, Abreu, Anderson, Jimenez, Moncada, Robert & Bummer) plus buyouts (Cishek, Gonzalez, Garcia & Herrera), with 32 more players to go on the 40 man, including arbitration eligible players (Mazara, Rodon, Marshall, Sanchez, Giolito, Lopez, Fry, Engel, Delmonico). The White Sox are well double the current year payroll without player salary concessions, and they will likely be in the $110-$115M range with the current arbitration process, and without signing McCann, Colome, Mazara, Parrot, Garcia, Dyson or Detwiller, and not replacing them with anyone beyond the Major League Minimum Salary.

People can post what they want, but the thought that they would bring back McCann at $18M, Bauer at his going rate, or any high price FA this year is not based in reality. 

• Business are not open in large parts of downtown, these same businesses will be lining up to buy White Sox skyboxes?
• Many people are out of work, or making less than their previous salary. These people will be lining up to get into Comiskey?
• Restaurants and bars are operating at limited capacity. Comiskey will be open to 40,000 for opening day in six months?
• Most reasonable estimates are a vaccine will be offered sometime in 2021 at the earliest (Cy Young Award Contender Fauci said late 2021 the other day). Do people expect a change to current operating guidelines before then, or near unanimous production, distribution, acceptance and proven success of a vaccine in six months? That people will want to sit shoulder to shoulder in crowded stadiums prior to vaccine and complete eradication of significant health risk, likely not to occur for at least 1-2 years from today.

The Sox do not have TV revenue to make up for loss of significant to all of their attendance revenue, they don't have an ownership group willing to take on any operating losses, regardless of the billions in capital and realized gains earned over 40 years, and they don't have an incentive to spend to jump a couple TV local ratings points. We will know in six months what normal will look like for 2021, but it is very likely to look more like 2020 than 2019, 2006 or any other year pre-COVID.

 

I have the white sox 26 man at roughly 93.5M after buy outs, retained and DFAing Mazara & Rodon. If they make a deep run they should easily be able to surpass 2011's high watermark of 127.7M

They should easily be able to afford to re-sign McCann if they so choose otherwise Collins will take his place. 

Personally this isn't what I want per se, but what i think will happen.

Rodon, Sanchez & Mazara are DFA'd or moved for similar distressed assets, all options except Leury are declined.

Sox re-sign McCann for AAV of 7.5 per 3 year with a mutual option and a buy out.

Sox sign Quintana for AAV of 13 per 3 year with an club option and buy out.

Sox sign Michael Brantley for AAV of 8M per 2 years with a club option and buy out.

DH - Abreu
C - Grandal#
1B - Vaughn
2B - Madrigal
SS - Anderson
3B - Moncada#
LF - Jimenez
CF - Robert
RF - Brantley*

C - McCann
UT - Garcia#
UT - Mendick
OF - Engel

SP - Gioltio
SP - Keuchel*
SP - Dunning
SP - Quintana*
SP - Cease

CL - Bummer*
SU - Heuer
SU - Foster
SU - Marshall
MR - Fry*
MR - Cordero
RP - Burdi
LR - Flores*

Lopez, Stiever and Kopech start at AAA for depth

Sox 26 man payroll is roughly 122M.

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, beautox said:

I have the white sox 26 man at roughly 93.5M after buy outs, retained and DFAing Mazara & Rodon. If they make a deep run they should easily be able to surpass 2011's high watermark of 127.7M

They should easily be able to afford to re-sign McCann if they so choose otherwise Collins will take his place. 

After all the revenue losses this year, nothing will be described as “easy” when it comes to next years payroll. You might be right on or too high by $50 million.