Stone's Throwing of Shade at Ricky

[ChiSox1917]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 Grandal is a shitty veteran addition?

He was an unneeded addition. And now that we’re watching him every game, some of his flaws that dodger fans complained of (blocking pitches, calling a game), are much more noticeable than when you only caught a few games of his a year playing for another team.  

[oneofthemikes]

37 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

you hit on some and miss on some.. but when you miss on all of them?

 

That gets you fired in most places.

I understand your point and agree when it comes to EE (I wasn't a huge fan of the EE signing from the start). But when Grandal is widely considered one of the top catchers in the game at the time of his acquisition and then he fails to perform, how is that on Rick?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

39 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

He was an unneeded addition. And now that we’re watching him every game, some of his flaws that dodger fans complained of (blocking pitches, calling a game), are much more noticeable than when you only caught a few games of his a year playing for another team.  

I have never read or heard a single criticism about Grandal calling games. In his tenure with the Dodgers, Grandal's catcher ERA was .1 below the team ERA despite Kershaw being caught by someone else for some of that time.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

This obsession with James McCann - which starts with Steve Stone's absurd love affair with McCann, where he constantly excuses all McCann mistakes - is just nauseating.

Yesterday, McCann struck out looking on a STRIKE in the 9th. Stone goes off for 2 minutes how it wasn't a strike and McCann never argues and blah blah blah. It was very clearly a strike.

Then Stoney was critical of Grandal leaving his right hand exposed when catching after the injury; yet Stone never mentions that McCann doesn't even move his hand to the side, instead he keeps it right in front of his chest when catching which is much more dangerous than holding it off to the side. Stone clearly likes McCann and they bonded last year, and he has done everything to justify his mistakes by being overly critical of Grandal.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Grandal is on pace for a 4.2 fWAR season and a bunch of clowns on here are calling him a terrible free agent signing because an analyst who has never worked in a front office in his life has an infatuation with the back-up.

[southsider2k5]

I wonder what the odds of this thread coming up again after last night?  -2000?

[fathom]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Grandal is on pace for a 4.2 fWAR season and a bunch of clowns on here are calling him a terrible free agent signing because an analyst who has never worked in a front office in his life has an infatuation with the back-up.

There’s going to be such an unnecessary meltdown when McCann signs elsewhere this offseason 

[EloyJenkins]

34 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This obsession with James McCann - which starts with Steve Stone's absurd love affair with McCann, where he constantly excuses all McCann mistakes - is just nauseating.

Yesterday, McCann struck out looking on a STRIKE in the 9th. Stone goes off for 2 minutes how it wasn't a strike and McCann never argues and blah blah blah. It was very clearly a strike.

Then Stoney was critical of Grandal leaving his right hand exposed when catching after the injury; yet Stone never mentions that McCann doesn't even move his hand to the side, instead he keeps it right in front of his chest when catching which is much more dangerous than holding it off to the side. Stone clearly likes McCann and they bonded last year, and he has done everything to justify his mistakes by being overly critical of Grandal.

100%. I hate to say it, but McCann AND Grandal have both looked poor this week. That is fine though.

Both have had solid seasons and have huge roles on the playoff roster, so let's enjoy having the best catching duo in the league for a few more weeks and hope they over perform together when it counts

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Grandal is on pace for a 4.2 fWAR season and a bunch of clowns on here are calling him a terrible free agent signing because an analyst who has never worked in a front office in his life has an infatuation with the back-up.

Exactly. 

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Grandal is on pace for a 4.2 fWAR season and a bunch of clowns on here are calling him a terrible free agent signing because an analyst who has never worked in a front office in his life has an infatuation with the back-up.

What is McCann's pace, using fWAR, bWAR, or BP's WARP? Oh yes, McCann is the superior catcher this season using any of the three, all of which account for pitch framing.

What did the Dodger's internal metrics say on resigning Grandal? Oh yes, that's right, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

What did the Brewers internal metrics say on resigning Grandal at the White Sox' price? Oh yes, that's right, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Andrew Freeman's Accomplishments: 

• Three playoff appearances with the micro-payroll Tampa Devil Rays including an American League Pennant.
• Division Championships every single year with the Dodgers, Two National League Pennants, two World Series losses to cheating scandal teams (perennial cheaters Boston and Houston).

David Stern's Accomplishments:

• Rebuilt small market Brewers with Free Agents signings that, wait for it, actually helped the team.
• Won Division title within three years of taking over, losing in the NLCS to Andrew Freeman.

Rick Hahn's Accomplishments:

• Became a Friend of Jerry permanent employee for life (Jerry or his) in 2002.
• Since his promotion before the 2013 season, his teams have a 491–642 record and had no post season appearances or winning seasons until they clinched a playoff spot in 2020.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

What is McCann's pace, using fWAR, bWAR, or BP's WARP? Oh yes, McCann is the superior catcher this season using any of the three, all of which account for pitch framing.

What did the Dodger's internal metrics say on resigning Grandal? Oh yes, that's right, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

What did the Brewers internal metrics say on resigning Grandal at the White Sox' price? Oh yes, that's right, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Andrew Freeman's Accomplishments: 

• Three playoff appearances with the micro-payroll Tampa Devil Rays including an American League Pennant.
• Division Championships every single year with the Dodgers, Two National League Pennants, two World Series losses to cheating scandal teams (perennial cheaters Boston and Houston).

David Stern's Accomplishments:

• Rebuilt small market Brewers with Free Agents signings that, wait for it, actually helped the team.
• Won Division title within three years of taking over, losing in the NLCS to Andrew Freeman.

Rick Hahn's Accomplishments:

• Became a Friend of Jerry permanent employee for life (Jerry or his) in 2002.
• Since his promotion before the 2013 season, his teams have a 491–642 record and had no post season appearances or winning seasons until they clinched a playoff spot in 2020.

 

 

Its too bad you aren't a catcher, because the amount of framing that went into this post was impressive.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

So the Brewers decided they didn't want Grandal and not that they couldn't afford him? Interesting take.

Here's the thing about using pace/rate with Grandal - it ends up he's on the same pace he's been on the past 5 years, meaning it's reliable that he'd achieve that. McCann is on "pace" to achieve something he's never achieved, which is why I'm not going to cite his rate stats. 

Listen bud, I get that you can't refute the actual substance of the post. That's fine. All you can do is "defer to authority" as the basis of your opinion, but that also has lead you to conclude things without any evidence.

While I agree the Dodgers let Grandal go and had high hopes for their catching prospects, I don't agree that the Brewers did.

Your inability to grasp the fact that McCann has played in situations in which he's more likely to succeed which has enhanced his value is why you overstate his success. McCann hasn't had to play vs tough righties and match-ups in which he likely is a negative. Grandal has to play everyday, he's going to play vs good and bad match-ups. That's the difference in their two seasons.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Additionally, if we want to talk about LEAGUE WIDE evaluations, that same GM (Rick Hahn) found McCann.

In the same off-season that Yasmani Grandal got 18.5 million from that heralded Brewers GM you proclaim superior to Hahn, Hahn signed McCann for 2.5 million. That means the Brewers could have had the better player - according to you - for 16 million less but chose to overspend on a player they "internally didn't like as much" according to you. I'm trying to keep up on your logic here, but I'm having a hard time.

Logic is important in debates.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Dominikk85]

Mccann's stats are good but like Engel they are probably looking better due to being put into favorable matchups.

[Buehrle5687]

16 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

What is McCann's pace, using fWAR, bWAR, or BP's WARP? Oh yes, McCann is the superior catcher this season using any of the three, all of which account for pitch framing.

What did the Dodger's internal metrics say on resigning Grandal? Oh yes, that's right, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

What did the Brewers internal metrics say on resigning Grandal at the White Sox' price? Oh yes, that's right, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Andrew Freeman's Accomplishments: 

• Three playoff appearances with the micro-payroll Tampa Devil Rays including an American League Pennant.
• Division Championships every single year with the Dodgers, Two National League Pennants, two World Series losses to cheating scandal teams (perennial cheaters Boston and Houston).

David Stern's Accomplishments:

• Rebuilt small market Brewers with Free Agents signings that, wait for it, actually helped the team.
• Won Division title within three years of taking over, losing in the NLCS to Andrew Freeman.

Rick Hahn's Accomplishments:

• Became a Friend of Jerry permanent employee for life (Jerry or his) in 2002.
• Since his promotion before the 2013 season, his teams have a 491–642 record and had no post season appearances or winning seasons until they clinched a playoff spot in 2020.

 

 

Hahn was at the helm for 3 seasons before a complete rebuild, and you cite his W/L record...Brilliant.

[South Side Hit Men]

14 minutes ago, Buehrle5687 said:

Hahn was at the helm for 3 seasons before a complete rebuild, and you cite his W/L record...Brilliant.

The Sox sucked whether they were tanking or not under Hahn. Hahn's trades and free agent signings sucked when he was attempting to win. Keuchel looks like the only possible good 2020 acquisition. And the Sox had "One Shining Moment" for the decade plus he was an assistant GM.

Unless you are a government employee or a Friend of Jerry, if you suck at your job for extended periods, you are gone. White Sox Gar Pax say hey, our team sucks, let's suck for five more years so we are not accountable for another ten years, five years for a rebuild and five more years to allow their "plan" to play out. So 13 years guaranteed regardless.

The Hahn apologists here are legion. If the Sox go 90-72 the next eight years, Hahn still have a losing record under White Sox Gar / Pax. Anything good that happens, Hahn is genius. Anything bad, oh that's Kenny Williams' fault. Trade away future MVPs? Oh, that's Kenny's Fault. Sign ancient free agents? Oh, Kenny made Rick do that.

Sox lose, oh it's Ricky's fault. Sox win, oh, they won despite Ricky. Who signed Ricky, oh, that was Kenny's fault. Who extended Ricky? Oh, that was Kenny Williams fault.

Even "Elite" Grandal would have trouble framing Hahn's two decades with the club as successful.

Edited September 22, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[southsider2k5]

Meatballs for everyone!

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Sox sucked whether they were tanking or not under Hahn. Hahn's trades and free agent signings sucked when he was attempting to win. Keuchel looks like the only possible good 2020 acquisition. And the Sox had "One Shining Moment" for the decade plus he was an assistant GM.

Unless you are a government employee or a Friend of Jerry, if you suck at your job for extended periods, you are gone. White Sox Gar Pax say hey, our team sucks, let's suck for five more years so we are not accountable for another ten years, five years for a rebuild and five more years to allow their "plan" to play out. So 13 years guaranteed regardless.

The Hahn apologists here are legion. If the Sox go 90-72 the next eight years, Hahn still have a losing record under White Sox Gar / Pax. Anything good that happens, Hahn is genius. Anything bad, oh that's Kenny Williams' fault. Trade away future MVPs? Oh, that's Kenny's Fault. Sign ancient free agents? Oh, Kenny made Rick do that.

Sox lose, oh it's Ricky's fault. Sox win, oh, they won despite Ricky. Who signed Ricky, oh, that was Kenny's fault. Who extended Ricky? Oh, that was Kenny Williams fault.

Even "Elite" Grandal would have trouble framing Hahn's two decades with the club as successful.

You constantly refer to Kenny/Hahn as GarPax but Kenny/Hahn have a ring on their finger. Maybe you forgot.

[South Side Hit Men]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You constantly refer to Kenny/Hahn as GarPax but Kenny/Hahn have a ring on their finger. Maybe you forgot.

Bulls Gar Pax had a winning record before being shitcanned, White Sox Gar Pax were effective 2013, White Sox Gar was George Costanza before 2013. Maybe you forgot.

By your logic, Mike Ditka should still be coaching the Bears, Joe Maddon should still be with the Cubs, John McDonough should be President of the Blackhawks.

Most people are held accountable in their jobs. The rest are Friends of Jerry.

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You constantly refer to Kenny/Hahn as GarPax but Kenny/Hahn have a ring on their finger. Maybe you forgot.

The idea that the Sox should somehow upset about the performance of their front office today is a joke.  Four years ago?  Sure.  I don't think anyone would have blinked if that happened.  In fact if you actually pay attention, the front office team presented ownership this rebuild plan a few times before they finally decided to go this way.  If they had decided to go a different direction for the rebuild, no one would have argued, but for the record, the top of this front office was kept in tact, while a TON of changes were made underneath them.  New drafting, new international teams, new front office reports, many more analytics hires, etc.

But today?  Please.  The Sox started from the bottom, sold off the key pieces for the highest possible return, and built themselves what peaked as the best farm team in baseball.  The main tide of those players has hit the majors, and has the team in first place for the first time since 2012, and in the playoffs for the first time since 2008.  They did EXACTLY what they were paid to do these last four years.  This is a first place team, in case people haven't noticed, with still a good farm system to add from, and once finances stabilize, they are in a great monetary position to add pieces that the farm system cannot down the road.  The even insinuation that someone would be fired for doing the job the Sox have done over the last few years is absurd lowest common denominator meatball fan drivel.  All of the attempts to falsely compare them to other teams in other situations and especially to tie them to other professional sports franchises is just embarrassing.  Too bad we can't fold fans accountable in the same fashion as they "demand".

[Buehrle5687]

23 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The Sox sucked whether they were tanking or not under Hahn. Hahn's trades and free agent signings sucked when he was attempting to win. Keuchel looks like the only possible good 2020 acquisition. And the Sox had "One Shining Moment" for the decade plus he was an assistant GM.

Unless you are a government employee or a Friend of Jerry, if you suck at your job for extended periods, you are gone. White Sox Gar Pax say hey, our team sucks, let's suck for five more years so we are not accountable for another ten years, five years for a rebuild and five more years to allow their "plan" to play out. So 13 years guaranteed regardless.

The Hahn apologists here are legion. If the Sox go 90-72 the next eight years, Hahn still have a losing record under White Sox Gar / Pax. Anything good that happens, Hahn is genius. Anything bad, oh that's Kenny Williams' fault. Trade away future MVPs? Oh, that's Kenny's Fault. Sign ancient free agents? Oh, Kenny made Rick do that.

Sox lose, oh it's Ricky's fault. Sox win, oh, they won despite Ricky. Who signed Ricky, oh, that was Kenny's fault. Who extended Ricky? Oh, that was Kenny Williams fault.

Even "Elite" Grandal would have trouble framing Hahn's two decades with the club as successful.

Where do you think this 2020 team come from?  Explain how this happened if Hahn sucks at his job.  

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

What is McCann's pace, using fWAR, bWAR, or BP's WARP? Oh yes, McCann is the superior catcher this season using any of the three, all of which account for pitch framing.

What did the Dodger's internal metrics say on resigning Grandal? Oh yes, that's right, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

What did the Brewers internal metrics say on resigning Grandal at the White Sox' price? Oh yes, that's right, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Andrew Freeman's Accomplishments: 

• Three playoff appearances with the micro-payroll Tampa Devil Rays including an American League Pennant.
• Division Championships every single year with the Dodgers, Two National League Pennants, two World Series losses to cheating scandal teams (perennial cheaters Boston and Houston).

David Stern's Accomplishments:

• Rebuilt small market Brewers with Free Agents signings that, wait for it, actually helped the team.
• Won Division title within three years of taking over, losing in the NLCS to Andrew Freeman.

Rick Hahn's Accomplishments:

• Became a Friend of Jerry permanent employee for life (Jerry or his) in 2002.
• Since his promotion before the 2013 season, his teams have a 491–642 record and had no post season appearances or winning seasons until they clinched a playoff spot in 2020.

 

 

1. Grandal has been great (Yes mccann has been better)

2. Dodgers have ALWAYS had superior depth at the C position making him expendable.

3. Brewers tried to sign him, we just beat the offer.

Try again.

[SoxBlanco]

15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The idea that the Sox should somehow upset about the performance of their front office today is a joke.  Four years ago?  Sure.  I don't think anyone would have blinked if that happened.  In fact if you actually pay attention, the front office team presented ownership this rebuild plan a few times before they finally decided to go this way.  If they had decided to go a different direction for the rebuild, no one would have argued, but for the record, the top of this front office was kept in tact, while a TON of changes were made underneath them.  New drafting, new international teams, new front office reports, many more analytics hires, etc.

But today?  Please.  The Sox started from the bottom, sold off the key pieces for the highest possible return, and built themselves what peaked as the best farm team in baseball.  The main tide of those players has hit the majors, and has the team in first place for the first time since 2012, and in the playoffs for the first time since 2008.  They did EXACTLY what they were paid to do these last four years.  This is a first place team, in case people haven't noticed, with still a good farm system to add from, and once finances stabilize, they are in a great monetary position to add pieces that the farm system cannot down the road.  The even insinuation that someone would be fired for doing the job the Sox have done over the last few years is absurd lowest common denominator meatball fan drivel.  All of the attempts to falsely compare them to other teams in other situations and especially to tie them to other professional sports franchises is just embarrassing.  Too bad we can't fold fans accountable in the same fashion as they "demand".

Post of the year.

[Chicago White Sox]

South Side Hit Men = Tommy Longo, it’s so painfully obvious

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

What did the Brewers internal metrics say on resigning Grandal at the White Sox' price? Oh yes, that's right, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

David Stern's Accomplishments:

• Rebuilt small market Brewers with Free Agents signings that, wait for it, actually helped the team.

 

 

??????