SoxBlanco Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, oldsox said: Makes no difference. All it takes is one. I will add that last night was evidence that "all it takes is one" is simply wrong. We got that "one" last night (which had about a 1% or 2% chance of happening), and it didn't even affect the game. So actually, it took more than one last night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 If the game is on the line in the 9th inning of a big game against your main division rival late in the season, it's a lot more important than an early in the game situation against a team that is not such a threat. Great Managers have used defensive replacements for years, and I mentioned two cases above where managers went against that rule of thumb, and it bit them in the ass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 I'm on team SoxBlanco. I would have agreed with Dyson in left, but when I realized at the time Eloy was first up I understood the rational. Especially since Adam was in Right. While what happened was a possibility since Eloy sucks in left, another was a walk and a home run and your defense didn't help you at all. Then you still have one of your best hitters in the lineup. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, oldsox said: If the game is on the line in the 9th inning of a big game against your main division rival late in the season, it's a lot more important than an early in the game situation against a team that is not such a threat. Great Managers have used defensive replacements for years, and I mentioned two cases above where managers went against that rule of thumb, and it bit them in the ass. And I mentioned why comparing infielders to outfielders is dumb. Also, even if infielders and outfielders were comparable, how many times do you think a defensive replacement was used who had no effect on that half inning, and then that spot came up in the lineup later in the game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said: And I mentioned why comparing infielders to outfielders is dumb. Also, even if infielders and outfielders were comparable, how many times do you think a defensive replacement was used who had no effect on that half inning, and then that spot came up in the lineup later in the game? The point is..... we were in the top of the 9th, not the 7th. We had a two run lead and were playing prevent defense with our closer. You bring in your defensive replacemnt to save the game. You keep using odds, but odds are we win that game if we don't have a defensive or pitching meltdown. If that meltdown occurs, you give it a shot in the bottom of the 9th. If that doesn't work, Dyson's defense helps in the top of the 10th with a runner starting on second. If you succeed in that frame, you have a runner on second base with a chance to win the game. If you can't get a hit there, you don't deserve to win. If Dyson would have batted in the bottom of the 10th, two other guys would have had a chance to win the game outside of him. But again, the odds are you win it in the 9th playing good defense all around if your closer is pitching well. There have been too many Eloy goofs and injuries in the field for this to even be questioned. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, bmags said: I'm on team SoxBlanco. I would have agreed with Dyson in left, but when I realized at the time Eloy was first up I understood the rational. Especially since Adam was in Right. While what happened was a possibility since Eloy sucks in left, another was a walk and a home run and your defense didn't help you at all. Then you still have one of your best hitters in the lineup. Exactly. Another layer to it is that if the Twins tied it with a bloop and a blast or a walk and a blast (which I believe is much more likely than Eloy's defense costing us the game), and Eloy leads off the 9th with a single, it would be nice to have Dyson to pinch run there. I think Dyson pinch running with nobody out increases your chances of winning more than putting Dyson in left field increases your chances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Someone asked Stone last night on twitter if he had an idea as to why EE kept getting AB's and Stone said "none." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Just now, SonofaRoache said: The point is..... we were in the top of the 9th, not the 7th. We had a two run lead and were playing prevent defense with our closer. You bring in your defensive replacemnt to save the game. You keep using odds, but odds are we win that game if we don't have a defensive or pitching meltdown. If that meltdown occurs, you give it a shot in the bottom of the 9th. If that doesn't work, Dyson's defense helps in the top of the 10th with a runner starting on second. If you succeed in that frame, you have a runner on second base with a chance to win the game. If you can't get a hit there, you don't deserve to win. If Dyson would have batted in the bottom of the 10th, two other guys would have had a chance to win the game outside of him. But again, the odds are you win it in the 9th playing good defense all around if your closer is pitching well. There have been too many Eloy goofs and injuries in the field for this to even be questioned. So...that's what Ricky was doing though... You are open to the possibility of a pitching meltdown but in that case sox are supposed to try and overcome that with 8 (7 if you don't count EE) bats, and basically giving away an out with Dyson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Just now, SoxBlanco said: Exactly. Another layer to it is that if the Twins tied it with a bloop and a blast or a walk and a blast (which I believe is much more likely than Eloy's defense costing us the game), and Eloy leads off the 9th with a single, it would be nice to have Dyson to pinch run there. I think Dyson pinch running with nobody out increases your chances of winning more than putting Dyson in left field increases your chances. Then truly, why did they acquire Dyson? It seems like there are a ton of asterisks next to the idea of putting him in the game. Is Engel already in? Is Eloy going to bat soon? What's the score? Is the game important enough? If the Sox are up 3-2 in game 7 of the WS and Eloy is due to hit in the 9th in the third spot, do they still not put Dyson in? What if it's 4-2 or 5-2? What if Eloy is due to hit 4th or 5th? Sounds like nonsense to me. You have your stud closer- say what you will, but Colome's been good- in the game. I'm not planning on a blown save there. I'm planning on putting together the best defensive outfield possible, maybe even the best in baseball at that point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Just now, bmags said: So...that's what Ricky was doing though... You are open to the possibility of a pitching meltdown but in that case sox are supposed to try and overcome that with 8 (7 if you don't count EE) bats, and basically giving away an out with Dyson. Having Eloy out there increases the odds of a defensive and pitching meltdown significantly compared to Dyson. Hell, I'm even worried he may hurt himself or Robert with the pressure of finishing a game off. It was a dumb decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: The point is..... we were in the top of the 9th, not the 7th. We had a two run lead and were playing prevent defense with our closer. You bring in your defensive replacemnt to save the game. You keep using odds, but odds are we win that game if we don't have a defensive or pitching meltdown. If that meltdown occurs, you give it a shot in the bottom of the 9th. If that doesn't work, Dyson's defense helps in the top of the 10th with a runner starting on second. If you succeed in that frame, you have a runner on second base with a chance to win the game. If you can't get a hit there, you don't deserve to win. If Dyson would have batted in the bottom of the 10th, two other guys would have had a chance to win the game outside of him. But again, the odds are you win it in the 9th playing good defense all around if your closer is pitching well. There have been too many Eloy goofs and injuries in the field for this to even be questioned. I think odds are that we still win the game even WITH a defensive blunder out there in left field, just like we saw. And that defensive blunder has about a 1% or 2% of happening to begin with (in my estimation). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: Exactly. Another layer to it is that if the Twins tied it with a bloop and a blast or a walk and a blast (which I believe is much more likely than Eloy's defense costing us the game), and Eloy leads off the 9th with a single, it would be nice to have Dyson to pinch run there. I think Dyson pinch running with nobody out increases your chances of winning more than putting Dyson in left field increases your chances. You don't think our opponents know Eloy is a bad fielder and would try to hit it to him? A bloop and a blast could have happened, but you still play to finish that game. You cannot concern yourself with the bottom of the 9th and assume you would blow a two run lead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) Not pulling eloy was for sure a mistake. It happens. This thread though, and the countless rick bash threads are hilarious. Sox are in first place with he best run differential in the AL and 2nd best record in baseball. They were projected to be a .500 team. The players have praised renteria constantly - yet sox fans want to tell you how bad he's been every day. Its hilarious. And atone has praised renteria and his overall job this year, it just doesn't fit the narrative here so its been ignored. Edited September 15, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: Having Eloy out there increases the odds of a defensive and pitching meltdown significantly compared to Dyson. Hell, I'm even worried he may hurt himself or Robert with the pressure of finishing a game off. It was a dumb decision. Significantly? How can you possibly say that? We've played about 415 defensive innings this year. How many of those innings has Eloy's defense cost us a run? I'm not asking rhetorically...I'm actually asking for an estimation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Eloy has been crushing the ball all season and in clutch situations. Eloy already had two hits and another line drive to Right Center in that game. It is easy to question a Manager for making a decision like that, especially in hindsight. OK, I'll play ...So if Minnesota ended up pulling even in the 9th without the double, then Eloy comes up in the bottom of the 9th and hits a walk-off, RR is a genius. OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Just now, SonofaRoache said: You don't think our opponents know Eloy is a bad fielder and would try to hit it to him? A bloop and a blast could have happened, but you still play to finish that game. You cannot concern yourself with the bottom of the 9th and assume you would blow a two run lead. Oh. My. God. Now guys are trying to hit it to left field because they know Eloy is bad defensively? You can't be serious. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Just now, SonofaRoache said: You don't think our opponents know Eloy is a bad fielder and would try to hit it to him? A bloop and a blast could have happened, but you still play to finish that game. You cannot concern yourself with the bottom of the 9th and assume you would blow a two run lead. Do I think hitters facing major league pitching can aim at a player and hit it there? Not really and I'd welcome how the distraction may hurt them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: You don't think our opponents know Eloy is a bad fielder and would try to hit it to him? A bloop and a blast could have happened, but you still play to finish that game. You cannot concern yourself with the bottom of the 9th and assume you would blow a two run lead. No I don't think anyone is trying to hit the ball on purpose to the LF. Come on Roche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said: Oh. My. God. Now guys are trying to hit it to left field because they know Eloy is bad defensively? You can't be serious. And I guess quarterbacks don't pick on bad comebacks, or basketball coaches try to take advantage of weak defenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, tray said: Eloy has been crushing the ball all season and in clutch situations. Eloy already had two hits and another line drive to Right Center in that game. It is easy to question a Manager for making a decision like that, especially in hindsight. OK, I'll play ...So if Minnesota ended up pulling even in the 9th without the double, then Eloy comes up in the bottom of the 9th and hits a walk-off, RR is a genius. OK. With a 2 run lead you make the defensive sub. You dont manage scared. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Then truly, why did they acquire Dyson? It seems like there are a ton of asterisks next to the idea of putting him in the game. Is Engel already in? Is Eloy going to bat soon? What's the score? Is the game important enough? If the Sox are up 3-2 in game 7 of the WS and Eloy is due to hit in the 9th in the third spot, do they still not put Dyson in? What if it's 4-2 or 5-2? What if Eloy is due to hit 4th or 5th? Sounds like nonsense to me. You have your stud closer- say what you will, but Colome's been good- in the game. I'm not planning on a blown save there. I'm planning on putting together the best defensive outfield possible, maybe even the best in baseball at that point. They acquired Dyson because he was basically free and there are certain situations where he should be used. Just because he isn't used in every situation (based on the several conditions you described) doesn't mean he can't help at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Maybe they should of kept Brian Anderson on the bench because of his place in the lineup in the bottom of the 9th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Just now, SonofaRoache said: And I guess quarterbacks don't pick on bad comebacks, or basketball coaches try to take advantage of weak defenders. If hitting was this easy everyone would be Tim Anderson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: And I guess quarterbacks don't pick on bad comebacks, or basketball coaches try to take advantage of weak defenders. No, those things actually do happen. How can you possibly think hitting a baseball is equivalent to those? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Just now, SonofaRoache said: And I guess quarterbacks don't pick on bad comebacks, or basketball coaches try to take advantage of weak defenders. Roache unless your name is ichiro, you're not hitting the ball where you want to 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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