Stone's Throwing of Shade at Ricky

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Isn't using a D sub managing scared?

No, leaving a batter in the game because you "might give up the lead and 2 runs in the 9th" is scared. Optimizing your defense at the risk of a bat that shouldn't come up in the 9th is managing to finish the game.

How would playing for one more half inning be managing scared?

[SonofaRoache]

5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Can you please answer this question for me?  In your estimation, how many balls has Eloy missed this year that Dyson would have caught?

Its not simply catching balls. Poor routes and throw ins, potential to get hurt doing too much, and the biggest of all.... we traded for Dyson to be a defensive replacement and baserunner. 

[SoxBlanco]

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

One big one.

It literally wasn't big at all. It had no effect on the outcome of the game.

But why does everybody refuse to answer my question?  I can only assume they don't want to get into a discussion of the probabilities because they know it will be bad for their side of the argument.  It's a simple question that I have asked multiple people here, and nobody wants to answer it.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Baldelli should be fired for the whole Taylor Rogers thing last night.  The Twins have clearly been good the last few years DESPITE Rocco Baldelli.  

The Twins did pretty much everything wrong last night.  The failed in the clutch, they  missed opportunities, and they got strategy wrong at key times.

[bmags]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Ned. Yost. Won. A. Title.

Please stop saying championship caliber manager. A manager's ability to get the most of his players is 10000% more valuable than any pitching decision or outfield swap. 

fully agree here. The only superstar manager I'd actually care for is Francona anyway, and that's mostly just cause I like him.

[SoxBlanco]

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

Its not simply catching balls. Poor routes and throw ins, potential to get hurt doing too much, and the biggest of all.... we traded for Dyson to be a defensive replacement and baserunner. 

Ok, then can you please answer another question for me?  In your estimation, how many innings this year has the opposing team scored a run because of Eloy's defense?

[Harry Chappas]

Renteria has the team playing well with 2 starting pitchers, a bullpen that is all over the place and a DH and RF, two key offensive positions mind you. that are beyond pathetic.

I question many things he does on paper but the fact is this team is playing incredibly well and I have to give him credit for that.

I stated yesterday I think Edwin stays in there as he has the track record but running Mazara out there at this point is indefensible.

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Can you please answer this question for me?  In your estimation, how many balls has Eloy missed this year that Dyson would have caught?

Then you can easily turn the tables and ask how many hits/homers does Eloy have that Dyson wouldn't have gotten?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

This coming from the guy who runs into the threads like a fireman into a burning building to rescue Ricky from any perceived slights.  

Rescue Ricky? Get a grip on yourself guy.

Can I address a thread without you spewing your ignorant nonsense in rebuttal? Again, there are people in this thread defending the decision. I am not one of them. If you have a problem with them, go discuss it with them. Run along now.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No, leaving a batter in the game because you "might give up the lead and 2 runs in the 9th" is scared. Optimizing your defense at the risk of a bat that shouldn't come up in the 9th is managing to finish the game.

How would playing for one more half inning be managing scared?

So being scared that Eloy might miss a ball isn't operating scared, but being scared of losing his bat is?  Makes sense.

[SoxBlanco]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Then you can easily turn the tables and ask how many hits/homers does Eloy have that Dyson wouldn't have gotten?

Thank you. Now we are actually getting to the stuff that matters. I believe the hits/homers for Eloy over Dyson are more common than a defensive miscue that causes to Twins to tie or take the lead in that inning.

[Green Line]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Then you can easily turn the tables and ask how many hits/homers does Eloy have that Dyson wouldn't have gotten?

Nobody's asking that Dyson start over Eloy.  Just that he be used as a defensive replacement in the 9th inning of a game where the Sox are up two runs.  The comparison is invalid.

[mqr]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

fully agree here. The only superstar manager I'd actually care for is Francona anyway, and that's mostly just cause I like him.

Also the guy the Phillies brought in who made every decision exactly by the book was fired after a year because all the players couldn’t stand him. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

So being scared that Eloy might miss a ball isn't operating scared, but being scared of losing his bat is?  Makes sense.

When you have a two run lead, and it's the 9th inning, your job is to get 3 outs. That's the only job you have left to do. 

Putting on the field the best unit to do that, is not managing scared. It's optimizing a lineup. 

Leaving a fielder in the game because you're scared you're going to give up the lead and might need his bat is managing scared. 

Putting a fielder into the game to maximize your chance to get the last three outs is managing smart.

I honestly have never heard anyone in the game call a pinch runner or fielding sub managing scared. This is a first for me.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[tray]

 I don't see the Eloy decision as being clear cut, one way or the other. I had some other concerns like why a slumping  EE  hit with men on base while McCann was sitting on the bench.

Then starting Mazara... . I have been preaching patience with Mazara but he is rapidly approaching the Mendoza line.  Maybe start Engel n in RF the rest of the way or at least make RF a platoon.  Mazara might have lingering issues with Covid so I would not entirely give up on him, but it is getting old seeing him strike out so often.

[hi8is]

4 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Ok, then can you please answer another question for me?  In your estimation, how many innings this year has the opposing team scored a run because of Eloy's defense?

42.

[Green Line]

Just now, SoxBlanco said:

Thank you. Now we are actually getting to the stuff that matters. I believe the hits/homers for Eloy over Dyson are more common than a defensive miscue that causes to Twins to tie or take the lead in that inning.

How many homers has Eloy hit in the bottom of the 9th inning in games where he might otherwise have been subbed out for defense is the correct question, actually.  Those games would actually have to go to the bottom of the 9th too...

[SonofaRoache]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Ned. Yost. Won. A. Title.

Please stop saying championship caliber manager. A manager's ability to get the most of his players is 10000% more valuable than any pitching decision or outfield swap. 

So because Ned Yost won a title, we should not want our manager to be good at his job? And I'll stop saying championship caliber when Hahn stops saying multiple championships. 

[tray]

Eloy  was raking...two hits and a line drive out in that game.  You have to take that in consideration, not just stats.

[beautox]

43 minutes ago, bmags said:

So...that's what Ricky was doing though...

You are open to the possibility of a pitching meltdown but in that case sox are supposed to try and overcome that with 8 (7 if you don't count EE) bats, and basically giving away an out with Dyson.

Thats playing scared at home, you have the lead by 2 going into the top of the 9th expecting to win, RR was asleep at the wheel and worried about a tie situation going to the bottom of the 9th with Eloy up, Why? Dyson in LF is the appropriate move. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

So because Ned Yost won a title, we should not want our manager to be good at his job? And I'll stop saying championship caliber when Hahn stops saying multiple championships. 

I'm arguing a manager who gets the most out of his team is in fact good at his job; even if you don't like his strategic decisions that have very little statistical impact on the team or the outcomes.

[hi8is]

1 minute ago, Green Line said:

How many homers has Eloy hit in the bottom of the 9th inning in games where he might otherwise have been subbed out for defense is the correct question, actually.  Those games would actually have to go to the bottom of the 9th too...

42.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

When you have a two run lead, and it's the 9th inning, your job is to get 3 outs. That's the only job you have left to do. 

Putting on the field the best unit to do that, is not managing scared. It's optimizing a lineup. 

Leaving a fielder in the game because you're scared you're going to give up the lead and might need his bat is managing scared. 

Putting a fielder into the game to maximize your chance to get the last three outs is managing smart.

I honestly have never heard anyone in the game call a pinch runner or fielding sub managing scared. This is a first for me.

You are the one who is peddling the idea of managing scared, not me.  I just can't figure how where this "logic" begins and ends, and more importantly why it is so inconsistent.

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

So because Ned Yost won a title, we should not want our manager to be good at his job? And I'll stop saying championship caliber when Hahn stops saying multiple championships. 

Ricky is so bad at his job the White Sox have lost 5 of the last 30 games. 
 

if they don’t win the World Series this year, it will be because they don’t have enough pitching, not the manager. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by mqr

[ShoeLessRob]

I don’t agree with the mindset that we should of conceded that Eloy might be needed in the bottom of the 9th, you have a two run lead... if your pitching and defense fails you, it’s unfortunate. 
 

But Ricky gunna Ricky. For better or worse he’s probably the manager for AT LEAST 2 more seasons. I’ve come to accept it.

Edited September 15, 2020 by ShoeLessRob