Do you keep playing EE or Mazara?

[YourWhatHurts]

Simple.

Mazara has passed the point of no return as a non-tender candidate.  There is zero chance he is brought back next year, meaning there is zero "future potential" reasoning to play him.

We know for a fact that going from Mazara to Engel will improve the defense.

We know for a fact that going from Mazara to Engel will improve the team speed.

It is really difficult to imagine even a cold / off the bench Engel being any worse offensively than Mazara, so I think you have to consider offensively at least a wash.  At least Engel can hit a home run.

This must be done now.  Engel needs to be given enough time to get up to speed.  Maybe he can start to turn it on for the playoffs.

I know there is another thread about Mazara and EE but this is different.  There is some reason to be patient with EE because at least he's still a HR threat in the playoffs.  He needs some ABs just to be useful off the bench.  Worst case, McCann and Grandal play every day as C/DH/1B (Grandal).  But benching Mazara for the remainder of the year is really a no-brainer at this point.

[YourWhatHurts]

Also forgot to list that we already have a pinch runner and defensive replacement ready on the bench in Dyson.  Engel can step in for Mazara and Dyson can step in for Engel.  Mazara can ride pine, go home, go to Schaumburg, whatever, it doesn't matter so long as he's not playing anymore.

[NCsoxfan]

13 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Mostly agree but there is a non zero chance Edwin gets hot over the last two weeks here.  He's not Mazara, who has like 1000+ PA of suck recently.  In fact as recently as last year Edwin was pretty damn good.  That said, there's zero reason to keep auto starting him, against RHP I'd rather see most nights Grandal at DH, Jose at 1st and James at catcher.  If they lose the DH or some shit on some freak injury to McCann well, we got bigger problems than losing the DH that night.

Are we going to be talking about “last year” if he’s still hitting .180 in the playoffs too? Should we have a lineup with 8 hitters because he’s been great the previous seasons? The logic doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

[tray]

Platoon Engel and Mazara in RF.

Ask the great Menechino to help Mazara with his stance, approach and swing.

EE - Star using Grandal and McCann as DH instead of EE when they are not catching.

Maybe bring up Mercedes to DH some.  Not sure if Vaughn can handle DH yet and it's  awfully late to experiment.

 

[southsider2k5]

If you have to post "It's different" it is a pretty clear indicator that this is the same recycled post from another thread.

[palehose1]

Time to move on from Mazara who has had over 40 games to establish himself. I wish we had a viable lefty option for RF but I'll take a fundamentally sound player like Engel over what we have be watching. Mazara was walking toward the bench last night on a caught looking strikeout before the ball reached the catchers mitt.

[fathom]

47 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Are people not treating it as a legit injury? 

IIRC Hahn said that Mazara had it during his presser Saturday. 

If so, they might bring him back. 

I just hope this bat speed issue for both guys isn't permanent, because if it is they have bigger health problems to deal with beyond baseball. 

I think that people should be prepared for them to bring back Mazara next year if he indeed had Covid. 

He’s not being tendered a contract. No reason to even worry about it.

[Jack Parkman]

43 minutes ago, fathom said:

He’s not being tendered a contract. No reason to even worry about it.

More about Moncada who has 60M remaining on his deal than Mazara. 

However, they could potentially use covid/his late start as an excuse to bring him back and not upgrade RF. Maybe it's just me being cynical. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Kyyle23]

52 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Are people not treating it as a legit injury? 

IIRC Hahn said that Mazara had it during his presser Saturday. 

If so, they might bring him back. 

I just hope this bat speed issue for both guys isn't permanent, because if it is they have bigger health problems to deal with beyond baseball. 

I think that people should be prepared for them to bring back Mazara next year if he indeed had Covid. 

Hahn said Mazara had Covid?  Please link that article because the only thing I heard was Mazara said he had strep

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

Hahn said Mazara had Covid?  Please link that article because the only thing I heard was Mazara said he had strep

He let it slip when talking about Moncada....Been trying to find some audio but I can't find it again. Heard it on the pregame show Saturday. 

 

[Kyyle23]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

He let it slip when talking about Moncada....Been trying to find some audio but I can't find it again. Heard it on the pregame show Saturday. 

 

He was probably talking about Moncada and you have it confused

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

He was probably talking about Moncada and you have it confused

He was asked about Mazara and Moncada's underperformance jointly and said "they had covid" 

The "they" was the key word. You would have had to have been paying attention. Then he caught himself in it and started talking only about Moncada. 

[palehose1]

lineups in for tonight McCann catching, Engel right field - Mazara and EE on bench.

Yas is DH

Good start

[pcq]

Putting Nick D in RF would not be too disruptive. Playoffs are serious stuff.

[zisk]

3 hours ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Simple.

Mazara has passed the point of no return as a non-tender candidate.  There is zero chance he is brought back next year, meaning there is zero "future potential" reasoning to play him.

We know for a fact that going from Mazara to Engel will improve the defense.

We know for a fact that going from Mazara to Engel will improve the team speed.

It is really difficult to imagine even a cold / off the bench Engel being any worse offensively than Mazara, so I think you have to consider offensively at least a wash.  At least Engel can hit a home run.

This must be done now.  Engel needs to be given enough time to get up to speed.  Maybe he can start to turn it on for the playoffs.

I know there is another thread about Mazara and EE but this is different.  There is some reason to be patient with EE because at least he's still a HR threat in the playoffs.  He needs some ABs just to be useful off the bench.  Worst case, McCann and Grandal play every day as C/DH/1B (Grandal).  But benching Mazara for the remainder of the year is really a no-brainer at this point.

Moncada looks to be just about back. Mazara got sick later than YM. It probably is too late for this year for NM. It would be a foolish thing to

release a guy his age because of an unusual illness. Time  will tell if he bounces back.

[beautox]

I'd rather take Engel's elite defense and development than Mazara at all

.250/.286/.400 -.686 OPS | wRC+ 86 against right handers for Adam than Nomar's .217/.301/.265 - .566 OPS | wRC+ 64!!!

As for EE, dump his ass; Vaughn is better suited to learn the game in a pennant run and get that experience than someone we're going to release in November. 

.168/.265/.403 - .668 OPS | wRC+ 80 (20% below league average). With Vaughn who is going to be a staple for this team going forward he is projected the following .209/.270/.334 - .604 OPS | wRC+ 60

Id rather bet on the upside of the former #3 overall pick than the continued decline of EE.

[harkness99]

EE is more dangerous than mazara at this point... its not even close.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Encarnacion is washed but at least he still can hit a home run now and then. And he might be a weapon off the bench as a pinch hitter. Mazara is just totally useless and should get very little playing time from now on.

[tray]

Has Menechino been asked about Mazara's struggles  by the Sox beat writers?  It doesn't look like Mazara has changed a thing since day one in a Sox uniform.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

No

[ChiSox59]

4 hours ago, tray said:

Has Menechino been asked about Mazara's struggles  by the Sox beat writers?  It doesn't look like Mazara has changed a thing since day one in a Sox uniform.

Yes. He basically said he has no idea what Mazara is doing and he’s caught between approaches and swings. Not very encouraging words. 

[tray]

Thank you ChiSox59. I found the article with the comments from Menechino you mentioned.

MENECHINO:

“I haven’t figured that out. He’s in between mechanics sometimes. He’s in between approach sometimes. There has to be some kind of pressing going on in there. Sometimes he’s in an advantage count and gets fast to the ball.

“We have a team that’s hitting really good, and we have a team that’s scoring a lot of runs. So maybe sometimes guys just say, ‘Hey, let me just do whatever I can to help the team win.' Not focus personally on their goals and stuff. ... He does his work. He does everything really good in the cage. He prepares. He’s doing everything he can do. And that’s all I can ask.”

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/frank-menechino-on-2020-playoff-preparation

 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by tray

[periphery831]

The last game against the Twins has your answer. 

No Mazara and EE just works. Use them sparingly.

[Dominikk85]

Something obviously is wrong with mazara (probably a mix of physical, mechanical and mental which can affect each other). Maybe he could fix it next year and hit his usual 105-110 wrc+ against righties while sucking against lefties and hitting 20 Homers but it probably is not worth the money finding out because there is no guarantee it gets fixed.

EE is already sitting a lot recently, the sox have enough options with the two catchers at DH to only play EE against some bad stuff pitchers were he still can hit an occasional homer.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Dominikk85

[YourWhatHurts]

2 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

Something obviously is wrong with mazara (probably a mix of physical, mechanical and mental which can affect each other). Maybe he could fix it next year and hit his usual 105-110 wrc+ against righties while sucking against lefties and hitting 20 Homers but it probably is not worth the money finding out because there is no guarantee it gets fixed.

EE is already sitting a lot recently, the sox have enough options with the two catchers at DH to only play EE against some bad stuff pitchers were he still can hit an occasional homer.

Not only is he not worth the money but he'd really have to be "improved by 50%+" instead of "fixed" IMO because the "fixed" Mazara still would not be worth the QO.  If you paid him in arb next year then he'd really need to make a statistical leap well above and beyond his previous numbers to be worth the QO, and I think the thought behind acquiring him was really potentially 3 years control or 2 years + draft pick with an out at the end of every year.  I think the Sox were hoping they were getting a stud and thinking more along the lines of the Carlos Quentin trade than marginal starting RF when they acquired him.  But he doesn't have time to become that kind of player here so he's gone.

EE will still be very useful IMO.  He really is a threat and whatever the numbers say and that stat fans think, the opposing pitcher is going to be thinking something very different.  This season should bring his cost for 2021 way down and if there's room (there might not be because we already have so many DH types) it might be nice to bring him back in more of a bench type role.  But I bet he will get actually more offers this time around just because we know the NL will have a DH and also maybe an expanded roster.