Comparing Sox young guys to past players

[he gone.]

Wonder some takes on comparing these guys to past Sox guys and/or other guys + what kind of career you think they may have..

I’ll start with a few:

 

Eloy Jimenez – Carlos Lee: I see him as a solid, solid bat. Guy who can have a very long career, make a handful of All-Star Games, maybe have an outside MVP type season, probably better suited at DH in the long run.

Dunning – Buehrle/Garland/Quintana: not necessarily comparing stuff here. Just in terms of guys who kind of get it done quietly. Even if he has 5 great years in a row, I feel like he’ll never get the national accolades.

Yoan Moncada – Joe Crede: When hot, he’s hot and can carry a team. But a guy who maybe gets injured too often and is inconsistent. The talent is no doubt there, is capable of all star seasons, being a long term piece, but never really breaks out to that next level

Nick Madrigal -  This one will be a very loose interpretation. Hopefully others can provide a better comp. This one only applies to 2020-21 …. Pods/Iguchi. In the sense I think he’s the GLUE of the team. So, the unsung guy that provides a very important role, but isn’t really noticed.

Luis Robert – Frank Thomas/Ken Griffey Jr.: Now this isn’t a 1:1 type comparison. They’re different players for sure and bring different things to the table. But in terms of just true baseball, god given talent, he’s an Acuna level player. Tatis, etc. He’s an all-decade team talent. Injury history scares me.. but outside of that I think he has the talent to be the face of the franchise for the decade. I look at him, then I look at eloy. He makes Eloy almost look average. You can see the talent oozing out of him. He’s a MVP type candidate year in and year out while Eloy is a All-Star candidate year in and year out. Just my opinion obviously and not a knock on eloy.

Tim Anderson – I really don’t have a comp for him at all. Would be interested in peoples takes. I can’t really find a comp to him on the Sox. I almost think Vlad Guerrero as a non-Sox comp but that might be super generous. I’m trying to think of free swingers who just have the “it” factor. I’m going to say something controversial here … I think Tim Anderson is close to the level of pure talent as Luis Robert. I think he can consistently be in the MVP race … and that’s not just on this year or last year, I think it’s based on the adjustments he’s made, the speed, the power, etc.

 

Feel free to add names!

[southsider2k5]

I see a ton of Bo Jackson in Luis Robert and his raw tools

[GreenSox]

44 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

 

Tim Anderson – 

 

Feel free to add names!

Maybe Ray  Durham, kinda.  TA has a higher BA but  Durham walked a lot more,  but similar power numbers, both middle infielders.  Of course Durham never had a year like 2020 TA

[gusguyman]

1 hour ago, BrianAnderson said:

Wonder some takes on comparing these guys to past Sox guys and/or other guys + what kind of career you think they may have..

I’ll start with a few:

 

Eloy Jimenez – Carlos Lee: I see him as a solid, solid bat. Guy who can have a very long career, make a handful of All-Star Games, maybe have an outside MVP type season, probably better suited at DH in the long run.

Dunning – Buehrle/Garland/Quintana: not necessarily comparing stuff here. Just in terms of guys who kind of get it done quietly. Even if he has 5 great years in a row, I feel like he’ll never get the national accolades.

Yoan Moncada – Joe Crede: When hot, he’s hot and can carry a team. But a guy who maybe gets injured too often and is inconsistent. The talent is no doubt there, is capable of all star seasons, being a long term piece, but never really breaks out to that next level

Nick Madrigal -  This one will be a very loose interpretation. Hopefully others can provide a better comp. This one only applies to 2020-21 …. Pods/Iguchi. In the sense I think he’s the GLUE of the team. So, the unsung guy that provides a very important role, but isn’t really noticed.

Luis Robert – Frank Thomas/Ken Griffey Jr.: Now this isn’t a 1:1 type comparison. They’re different players for sure and bring different things to the table. But in terms of just true baseball, god given talent, he’s an Acuna level player. Tatis, etc. He’s an all-decade team talent. Injury history scares me.. but outside of that I think he has the talent to be the face of the franchise for the decade. I look at him, then I look at eloy. He makes Eloy almost look average. You can see the talent oozing out of him. He’s a MVP type candidate year in and year out while Eloy is a All-Star candidate year in and year out. Just my opinion obviously and not a knock on eloy.

Tim Anderson – I really don’t have a comp for him at all. Would be interested in peoples takes. I can’t really find a comp to him on the Sox. I almost think Vlad Guerrero as a non-Sox comp but that might be super generous. I’m trying to think of free swingers who just have the “it” factor. I’m going to say something controversial here … I think Tim Anderson is close to the level of pure talent as Luis Robert. I think he can consistently be in the MVP race … and that’s not just on this year or last year, I think it’s based on the adjustments he’s made, the speed, the power, etc.

 

Feel free to add names!

I've said it before but for Luis Robert - Eric Davis (at least in Robert's early years).

Gold glove center fielder with practically unheard of speed/power combo, but with some contact & strike out issues that can make him a bit inconsistent. Davis maybe had a bit less power, a bit better eye, but it is pretty close.

I am a Robert believer, so I think he can make a Moncada level leap and fix those contact & K issues and break into a stratosphere where there are no good comps left. But if he doesn't, or at least until he does, I think Robert is basically the second coming of Eric Davis.

(By the way, in 1987 Eric Davis won a Gold Glove in CF while slashing 293/399/593 for an OPS+ of 155. Oh yeah, and he stole 50 bases in 56 attempts. It was an 8 WAR season and he finished NINTH in MVP voting. His 86-89 years are incredibly underappreciated.) 

[southsider2k5]

For his hitting style, when Eloy is right, he is hitting like Magglio.  Use right and right center, and hit the ball out of the deepest parts of the park. He gets into funks when he gets pull happy.

[ChiSox1917]

Eloy - willie stargell.  Light tower power and an overall good hitter who in his prime should hit around .300.  Terrible defensive outfielder.  Also, albert belle.  But nicer.

madrigal - nellie fox.  Hes literally nellie reincarnated.  

luis robert - mike cameron with more power.  

moncada - cant really think of a good comp for yoan.  Maybe troy glaus with less power?

anderson - this is another tough one.  Maybe larkin with a bit more power and amore inconsistent fielder.  

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by ChiSox1917

[Cashman]

21 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Eloy - willie stargell.  Light tower power and an overall good hitter who in his prime should hit around .300.  Terrible defensive outfielder.  Also, albert belle.  But nicer.

madrigal - nellie fox.  Hes literally nellie reincarnated.  

luis robert - mike cameron with more power.  

moncada - cant really think of a good comp for yoan.  Maybe troy glaus with less power?

anderson - this is another tough one.  Maybe larkin with a bit more power and amore inconsistent fielder.  

 

Cameron might be Robert's floor, but I really am thinking Jr or Bo might be  his ceiling. And a realistic one at that.

[Ozzie’s Cuban Cigar]

Tim Anderson is what everyone hoped Shawon Dunston would be for the Cubs back in the day.  

Similar skill sets but Tim has his game at a level Shawon never attained.  

[Dominikk85]

19 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I see a ton of Bo Jackson in Luis Robert and his raw tools

Robert is a much better ballplayer though. Similar plate discipline issues but still overall better hitter and of course a much better defender.

Robert has not so great plate discipline but other than that he is not a raw ballplayer, Cuban kids grow up with baseball and learn the game and you can see that with robert who already is a fundamentally sound ballplayer who can not just hit bombs but also run the bases, do the right things in the field, hit oppo and so on.

Jackson never became nearly as complete of a ballplayer.

[soxfan49]

Cease- Javy Vazquez or Rich Harden

Eloy- Stanton

Robert- Soriano

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

11 hours ago, Cashman said:

Cameron might be Robert's floor, but I really am thinking Jr or Bo might be  his ceiling. And a realistic one at that.

People really need to look up Mike Cameron's career. He is likely the most underrated player in the last 30+ years of baseball.

If Robert's floor is a 50 fWAR player, he's something else. For his 12 full years of games, Cameron averaged 4.2 fWAR per SEASON. 50.6 fWAR for his career.

Cameron was a monster.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[wegner]

34 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

People really need to look up Mike Cameron's career. He is likely the most underrated player in the last 30+ years of baseball.

If Robert's floor is a 50 fWAR player, he's something else. For his 12 full years of games, Cameron averaged 4.2 fWAR per SEASON. 50.6 fWAR for his career.

Cameron was a monster.

I remember being quite unhappy at the time when the Sox gave Cameron away for some clown named Conerko or something like that? 

Gotta give up talent to get talent.  (Still wary about Hahn giving up the wrong talent when the time comes).

[he gone.]

54 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

People really need to look up Mike Cameron's career. He is likely the most underrated player in the last 30+ years of baseball.

If Robert's floor is a 50 fWAR player, he's something else. For his 12 full years of games, Cameron averaged 4.2 fWAR per SEASON. 50.6 fWAR for his career.

Cameron was a monster.

Whoa. Talk about under the radar. I had him pegged in my memory as a slightly above average player. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

26 minutes ago, wegner said:

I remember being quite unhappy at the time when the Sox gave Cameron away for some clown named Conerko or something like that? 

Gotta give up talent to get talent.  (Still wary about Hahn giving up the wrong talent when the time comes).

Yeah, that was a great trade for both sides. One of the rare times.

Cameron came up like 5 years too soon; OBP and walks hadn't quite taken off in value yet. They did as his career went on, but he never quite got the due he deserved. 

[Dominikk85]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

People really need to look up Mike Cameron's career. He is likely the most underrated player in the last 30+ years of baseball.

If Robert's floor is a 50 fWAR player, he's something else. For his 12 full years of games, Cameron averaged 4.2 fWAR per SEASON. 50.6 fWAR for his career.

Cameron was a monster.

Back then cameron was not valued so highly because a lot of his value was tied to walks and defense.

Fans just saw a 250 hitter with 20-25 homers and few talked about OBP and nobody talked about defense metrics.

[South Side Hit Men]

Stats & WAR based on 162 Game Averages per season.

C Yasmani Grandal (26/2 HR/SB; .240/.348/.445; 3.4 oWAR; 0.6 dWAR) vs. Mickey Tettleton (27/3 HR/SB; .241/.369/.449; 3.8 oWAR; -0.4 dWAR)

1B Jose Abreu (33/2 HR/SB; .294/.350/.520; 4.3 oWAR; -1.3 dWAR) vs. Travis Hafner (29/2 HR/SB; .273/.376/.498; 3.5 oWAR; -1.3 dWAR)

2B Nick Madrigal (0/11 HR/SB; .340/.376/.369; 1.7 oWAR; 1.1 dWAR) vs. Placido Polanco (9/7 HR/SB; .297/.343/.397; 2.3 oWAR; 1.7 dWAR)

SS Tim Anderson (21/21 HR/SB; .281/.308/.443; 3.7 oWAR; 0.4 dWAR) vs. Ian Desmond (20/20 HR/SB; .263/.315/.427; 2.3 oWAR; -0.2 dWAR)

3B Yoan Moncada (23/10 HR/SB; .260/.335/.448; 3.6 oWAR 0.0 dWAR) vs. Howard Johnson (24/24 HR/SB; .249/.340/.446; 3.4 oWAR; -0.8 dWAR)

RF Adam Engel (9/12 HR/SB; .222/.276/.343; 0.3 oWAR 0.5 dWAR) vs. GM Kenny Williams (10/18 HR/SB; .218/.269/.339; -0.8 oWAR; 0.5 dWAR)

CF Luis Robert (32/26 HR/SB; .233/.302/.436; 2.3 oWAR 2.9 dWAR) vs. Andruw Jones (32/11 HR/SB; .254/.337/.486; 2.9 oWAR 1.8 dWAR)

LF Eloy Jimenez (41/0 HR/SB; .276/.321/.527; 3.5 oWAR -1.8 dWAR) vs. Albert Belle (40/9 HR/SB; .295/.369/.564; 4.9 oWAR; -1.3 dWAR)

[poppysox]

On 9/17/2020 at 9:47 AM, wegner said:

I remember being quite unhappy at the time when the Sox gave Cameron away for some clown named Conerko or something like that? 

Gotta give up talent tTo get talent.  (Still wary about Hahn giving up the wrong talent when the time comes).

They were both considered underachievers and change of scenery candidates.

[YourWhatHurts]

Eloy to Albert Belle is definitely an interesting comp.  I like that one.

[southsider2k5]

In terms of hitting style, Eloy really reminded me of Magglio.  Silly power, but such a sweet oppo swing that he does his best hitting when he is hitting the ball up the middle and the other way.  He just has enough power where he can run into 40 homers, even without selling out for pull side power.

[JoshPR]

On 9/16/2020 at 12:38 PM, gusguyman said:

I've said it before but for Luis Robert - Eric Davis (at least in Robert's early years).

Gold glove center fielder with practically unheard of speed/power combo, but with some contact & strike out issues that can make him a bit inconsistent. Davis maybe had a bit less power, a bit better eye, but it is pretty close.

I am a Robert believer, so I think he can make a Moncada level leap and fix those contact & K issues and break into a stratosphere where there are no good comps left. But if he doesn't, or at least until he does, I think Robert is basically the second coming of Eric Davis.

(By the way, in 1987 Eric Davis won a Gold Glove in CF while slashing 293/399/593 for an OPS+ of 155. Oh yeah, and he stole 50 bases in 56 attempts. It was an 8 WAR season and he finished NINTH in MVP voting. His 86-89 years are incredibly underappreciated.) 

That is a great comparison 

[JoshPR]

On 11/23/2020 at 2:42 AM, South Side Hit Men said:

Stats & WAR based on 162 Game Averages per season.

C Yasmani Grandal (26/2 HR/SB; .240/.348/.445; 3.4 oWAR; 0.6 dWAR) vs. Mickey Tettleton (27/3 HR/SB; .241/.369/.449; 3.8 oWAR; -0.4 dWAR)

1B Jose Abreu (33/2 HR/SB; .294/.350/.520; 4.3 oWAR; -1.3 dWAR) vs. Travis Hafner (29/2 HR/SB; .273/.376/.498; 3.5 oWAR; -1.3 dWAR)

2B Nick Madrigal (0/11 HR/SB; .340/.376/.369; 1.7 oWAR; 1.1 dWAR) vs. Placido Polanco (9/7 HR/SB; .297/.343/.397; 2.3 oWAR; 1.7 dWAR)

SS Tim Anderson (21/21 HR/SB; .281/.308/.443; 3.7 oWAR; 0.4 dWAR) vs. Ian Desmond (20/20 HR/SB; .263/.315/.427; 2.3 oWAR; -0.2 dWAR)

3B Yoan Moncada (23/10 HR/SB; .260/.335/.448; 3.6 oWAR 0.0 dWAR) vs. Howard Johnson (24/24 HR/SB; .249/.340/.446; 3.4 oWAR; -0.8 dWAR)

RF Adam Engel (9/12 HR/SB; .222/.276/.343; 0.3 oWAR 0.5 dWAR) vs. GM Kenny Williams (10/18 HR/SB; .218/.269/.339; -0.8 oWAR; 0.5 dWAR)

CF Luis Robert (32/26 HR/SB; .233/.302/.436; 2.3 oWAR 2.9 dWAR) vs. Andruw Jones (32/11 HR/SB; .254/.337/.486; 2.9 oWAR 1.8 dWAR)

LF Eloy Jimenez (41/0 HR/SB; .276/.321/.527; 3.5 oWAR -1.8 dWAR) vs. Albert Belle (40/9 HR/SB; .295/.369/.564; 4.9 oWAR; -1.3 dWAR)

Just don't put Engle at 3rd....????????

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, JoshPR said:

Just don't put Engle at 3rd....?????? ??

I just find it amusing his numbers are similar to Kenny Williams. Times were so tough last year, fans were begging for Engel over Mazara.  Don't get me wrong, he is a valuable reserve player and love his defense, just not an everyday player.

Would love for Robert and Jimenez to match their Jones/Belle comps.

Tim Anderson was the hardest to match, if you back out Desmond's last few years his average oWAR would be similar. I believe Tim Anderson will age better / put up better numbers in his late 20s and early 30s than Desmond. So glad the Sox kept him at short, never ever wanted Machado based on the Sox' roster.

[Jack Parkman]

In the modern MLB Mike Cameron for Paul Konerko would never happen. 

[JoshPR]

On 11/24/2020 at 12:50 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

I just find it amusing his numbers are similar to Kenny Williams. Times were so tough last year, fans were begging for Engel over Mazara.  Don't get me wrong, he is a valuable reserve player and love his defense, just not an everyday player.

Would love for Robert and Jimenez to match their Jones/Belle comps.

Tim Anderson was the hardest to match, if you back out Desmond's last few years his average oWAR would be similar. I believe Tim Anderson will age better / put up better numbers in his late 20s and early 30s than Desmond. So glad the Sox kept him at short, never ever wanted Machado based on the Sox' roster.

Thats all good but I was referencing when in 88 the sox thought Kenny could be a 3rd baseman. After a good 87 campain he promptly hit in the .100s and made 17 errors in a little more than 30 games at 3rd

[Vulture]

On 9/16/2020 at 9:54 PM, Cashman said:

Cameron might be Robert's floor, but I really am thinking Jr or Bo might be  his ceiling.

Cameron was a better baseball player than Bo Jackson. Saying his ceiling is Junior or Bo is like saying either a Ferrari or a Fiero.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Vulture