Kopech update

[almagest]

6 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

Anywho from a sheer baseball stand point, I honestly still believe he's going to be the best pitcher of the bunch(yes, even Gio).  Hopefully I'm right, if I'm not, this post never happened.

I think you're right. He's got the best stuff on our pitching staff. Next year's pitching staff is going to be really fun to see shape up.

[Harry Chappas]

35 minutes ago, ptatc said:

No. He would need time off. He shouldn't maintain that level until the Spring. He should just be doing his conditioning and shoulder strengthening exercises as well as working in his pitches as it says. Hes doing the right stuff in the absence of games.

I think I just read/understood  it wrong then.  

[Green Line]

39 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

I second this. Green Line is one of the worst recent posters in Soxtalk history.

Thats rude

[EloyJenkins]

Came for good news...stayed for the hijinks that ensued. 

Kopech is a human being. He will be a White Sox starter (and a damn good one) when HE is right. 

Thanks for coming to my TED talk. 

[gusguyman]

1 hour ago, Green Line said:

Nah, he definitely shouldn't have sat out.

You should, though.

[oneofthemikes]

1 hour ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

But how do your measure yourself against other golfers?

By height.

[vilehoopster]

I understand commentators on here saying that Kopech had to take care of himself and how he owes nothing to the fans and then there are the people on here who talk about how they took time off from work, ten weeks for mental health or paternity and how that perfectly fine with their business or boss or whatever. 

But I'm sorry, sports and being a teammate is completely, completely different. I just saw that video on here of Eloy getting up early to work like Jose A. does. Eloy does that so he can look Jose in the eye and they both know that they're both doing doing every thing they can to win. That's what teammates do! They both know they do that stuff so that (like yesterday) Jose can bust his ass down the line and beat out a infield single to tie the game. And Eloy does it so he can see a pitch a little better and hit drive in the game winning run that clinches a playoff spot. It's completely different than showing up for a job and if you need a mental day or two months, just take the time off. Do you think guys giving all that extra effort to win are really going to be completely forgiving a teammate who takes a season off for whatever reason?

People who think what Kopech did was perfectly fine have never REALLY been in a locker room with teammates. You must not know what it's like to run sprints to build speed on a summer morning before it gets too hot, or to be with your teammates shooting free throws, out of season, so that maybe, just maybe, you will make one more basket and win for you and your teammates a tournament or sectional. And for God Damn sake, you don't take the time off during the season. You suck it up and play to help your teammates. When I played and then coached, you never missed a practice. If a player did, you knew, beyond any doubt, he was really, really sick. That's being on a team. The player didn't miss because was taking a mental health day, or a mental health summer off. 

You guys can all talk about how things are more important than sports, and of course, some things are. But one absolute thing that sports teach, (and being in combat is the only thing I can think that compares to it) is the importance of team and sacrificing for the benefit of all. Yes, putting the team before yourself, having something bigger than yourself, that's what sports teaches. If you're a true and good teammate, you're at the very least, expected to be there if you can. 

Now, again, I know some others are again going to preach bigger issues and take a high (but completely abstract) moral ground. But again. I don't think you know what it's like to be in a locker room and be a real teammate. 

And also, know this, the other White Sox players may be saying all the right things like they want what's best for Michael, but make no mistake. When he comes back next year, Kopech is going to have to work really hard to prove himself to a lot, I would even say the majority of his teammates. 

One more thing, you're right, Kopech or any athlete owes nothing to the fans, but the door swings both ways, we then owe nothing to that athlete, certainly not the loyalty he didn't show to us. 

 

[Jose Abreu]

9 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

People who think what Kopech did was perfectly fine have never REALLY been in a locker room with teammates. 

And also, know this, the other White Sox players may be saying all the right things like they want what's best for Michael, but make no mistake. When he comes back next year, Kopech is going to have to work really hard to prove himself to a lot, I would even say the majority of his teammates. 

Ironically, this is spoken like someone who has no idea what the players on the White Sox are like

[vilehoopster]

Are the White Sox players not teammates, real teammates, who are sacrificing a lot (like getting up early) and putting personal desires aside so that they can help their team, the entire team have success? I think that they are. As one who has been in a similar situation, I think I do know them, or at least I understand why they're having so much success this season. So I think I have a pretty good idea. I am confident I understand them better than you. No irony there at all.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I understand commentators on here saying that Kopech had to take care of himself and how he owes nothing to the fans and then there are the people on here who talk about how they took time off from work, ten weeks for mental health or paternity and how that perfectly fine with their business or boss or whatever. 

But I'm sorry, sports and being a teammate is completely, completely different. I just saw that video on here of Eloy getting up early to work like Jose A. does. Eloy does that so he can look Jose in the eye and they both know that they're both doing doing every thing they can to win. That's what teammates do! They both know they do that stuff so that (like yesterday) Jose can bust his ass down the line and beat out a infield single to tie the game. And Eloy does it so he can see a pitch a little better and hit drive in the game winning run that clinches a playoff spot. It's completely different than showing up for a job and if you need a mental day or two months, just take the time off. Do you think guys giving all that extra effort to win are really going to be completely forgiving a teammate who takes a season off for whatever reason?

People who think what Kopech did was perfectly fine have never REALLY been in a locker room with teammates. You must not know what it's like to run sprints to build speed on a summer morning before it gets too hot, or to be with your teammates shooting free throws, out of season, so that maybe, just maybe, you will make one more basket and win for you and your teammates a tournament or sectional. And for God Damn sake, you don't take the time off during the season. You suck it up and play to help your teammates. When I played and then coached, you never missed a practice. If a player did, you knew, beyond any doubt, he was really, really sick. That's being on a team. The player didn't miss because was taking a mental health day, or a mental health summer off. 

You guys can all talk about how things are more important than sports, and of course, some things are. But one absolute thing that sports teach, (and being in combat is the only thing I can think that compares to it) is the importance of team and sacrificing for the benefit of all. Yes, putting the team before yourself, having something bigger than yourself, that's what sports teaches. If you're a true and good teammate, you're at the very least, expected to be there if you can. 

Now, again, I know some others are again going to preach bigger issues and take a high (but completely abstract) moral ground. But again. I don't think you know what it's like to be in a locker room and be a real teammate. 

And also, know this, the other White Sox players may be saying all the right things like they want what's best for Michael, but make no mistake. When he comes back next year, Kopech is going to have to work really hard to prove himself to a lot, I would even say the majority of his teammates. 

One more thing, you're right, Kopech or any athlete owes nothing to the fans, but the door swings both ways, we then owe nothing to that athlete, certainly not the loyalty he didn't show to us. 

 

I mean this is great and all, but doing something in sports doesn't automatically make it more of a religious experience than anyone else's jobs.  I know there is an egoistic aspect to all of us, but being able to throw a baseball doesn't you somehow better than everyone else.

I work in a highly specialized industry where there are only 6 of us in our company so we are pretty much responsible for everything between the six of us.  I make a lot of money to pull down these responsibilities as do the people I work with.   Literally none of us could be replaced in a short period of time because our specialized knowledge and abilities are almost irreplaceable.  The work I do is VITAL to companies with billions and billions of dollars of net capital and banks with trillions of dollars of holdings.  That said, if one of my co-workers needs to walk away, I am not going to hold it against them and treat them like they owe me or the company something.  They don't.  In fact, I had a workmate suffer an illness which literally killed him for about 30 seconds before they brought him back to life.  Did I hold it against him when he needed to walk away from a stressful job just because of his health and his family's well-being? Even though we were deep into some high level situations with millions of dollars on the line?  Even though it meant a shitstorm for myself professionally?  Hell no.  I love my friend.  I am happy to see him doing better in his life, and in a spot with a lot less stress.  HE didn't owe me or the company anything.  He owed himself and his family, and that is it.

No one owes their well-being to anyone outside of themselves.  I don't care what sort of artificial BS people want to build up around the job that Kopech does for a living, he owes himself, and that is it.

[chitownsportsfan]

8 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Ironically, this is spoken like someone who has no idea what the players on the White Sox are like

Game recognize game in pro sports.  I'd imagine his team mates will welcome him back with open arms because it means they just added a top 10 prospect to the MLB roster that can help them win.  It's not like he even has to share a basketball with 4 other guys on the court and vice versa.  All he has to do is throw to his catcher's mitt.

[Rowand44]

4 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

 I think that they are. As one who has been in a similar situation, I think I do know them, or at least I understand why they're having so much success this season. So I think I have a pretty good idea. I am confident I understand them better than you. 

No, you don't.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Rowand44

[35thstreetswarm]

9 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I understand commentators on here saying that Kopech had to take care of himself and how he owes nothing to the fans and then there are the people on here who talk about how they took time off from work, ten weeks for mental health or paternity and how that perfectly fine with their business or boss or whatever. 

But I'm sorry, sports and being a teammate is completely, completely different. I just saw that video on here of Eloy getting up early to work like Jose A. does. Eloy does that so he can look Jose in the eye and they both know that they're both doing doing every thing they can to win. That's what teammates do! They both know they do that stuff so that (like yesterday) Jose can bust his ass down the line and beat out a infield single to tie the game. And Eloy does it so he can see a pitch a little better and hit drive in the game winning run that clinches a playoff spot. It's completely different than showing up for a job and if you need a mental day or two months, just take the time off. Do you think guys giving all that extra effort to win are really going to be completely forgiving a teammate who takes a season off for whatever reason?

People who think what Kopech did was perfectly fine have never REALLY been in a locker room with teammates. You must not know what it's like to run sprints to build speed on a summer morning before it gets too hot, or to be with your teammates shooting free throws, out of season, so that maybe, just maybe, you will make one more basket and win for you and your teammates a tournament or sectional. And for God Damn sake, you don't take the time off during the season. You suck it up and play to help your teammates. When I played and then coached, you never missed a practice. If a player did, you knew, beyond any doubt, he was really, really sick. That's being on a team. The player didn't miss because was taking a mental health day, or a mental health summer off. 

You guys can all talk about how things are more important than sports, and of course, some things are. But one absolute thing that sports teach, (and being in combat is the only thing I can think that compares to it) is the importance of team and sacrificing for the benefit of all. Yes, putting the team before yourself, having something bigger than yourself, that's what sports teaches. If you're a true and good teammate, you're at the very least, expected to be there if you can. 

Now, again, I know some others are again going to preach bigger issues and take a high (but completely abstract) moral ground. But again. I don't think you know what it's like to be in a locker room and be a real teammate. 

And also, know this, the other White Sox players may be saying all the right things like they want what's best for Michael, but make no mistake. When he comes back next year, Kopech is going to have to work really hard to prove himself to a lot, I would even say the majority of his teammates. 

One more thing, you're right, Kopech or any athlete owes nothing to the fans, but the door swings both ways, we then owe nothing to that athlete, certainly not the loyalty he didn't show to us. 

 

These are certainly familiar sports mores that we apply to other players all the time.  And this board hardly flinches to cast aspersions on other players as people, teammates, etc. for all types of behavior, minor and major.  

Look, my own view is that I am disappointed Kopech is not playing for the team I love.  I have no idea what motivated his decision to sit out (though all reporting at the time suggested it was a variety of factors, both personal and baseball-related), and I understand the wisdom behind avoiding speculation about things you don't know.  I wish him the best and hope he comes back next year.  But the degree of deference Kopech gets around here is weird.  Whether I agree with those who question his decision to sit out or not, I just don't see any reason that discussion of that topic should be beyond the pale.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Are the White Sox players not teammates, real teammates, who are sacrificing a lot (like getting up early) and putting personal desires aside so that they can help their team, the entire team have success? I think that they are. As one who has been in a similar situation, I think I do know them, or at least I understand why they're having so much success this season. So I think I have a pretty good idea. I am confident I understand them better than you. No irony there at all.

No, I think you have turned professional athletes into some sort of idols who are on a level above everyone else.  These are regular people we are talking about underneath all of that athletic talent.  They have the same family issues and mental states as every other person on the planet.

[Quin]

26 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I understand commentators on here saying that Kopech had to take care of himself and how he owes nothing to the fans and then there are the people on here who talk about how they took time off from work, ten weeks for mental health or paternity and how that perfectly fine with their business or boss or whatever. 

But I'm sorry, sports and being a teammate is completely, completely different. I just saw that video on here of Eloy getting up early to work like Jose A. does. Eloy does that so he can look Jose in the eye and they both know that they're both doing doing every thing they can to win. That's what teammates do! They both know they do that stuff so that (like yesterday) Jose can bust his ass down the line and beat out a infield single to tie the game. And Eloy does it so he can see a pitch a little better and hit drive in the game winning run that clinches a playoff spot. It's completely different than showing up for a job and if you need a mental day or two months, just take the time off. Do you think guys giving all that extra effort to win are really going to be completely forgiving a teammate who takes a season off for whatever reason?

People who think what Kopech did was perfectly fine have never REALLY been in a locker room with teammates. You must not know what it's like to run sprints to build speed on a summer morning before it gets too hot, or to be with your teammates shooting free throws, out of season, so that maybe, just maybe, you will make one more basket and win for you and your teammates a tournament or sectional. And for God Damn sake, you don't take the time off during the season. You suck it up and play to help your teammates. When I played and then coached, you never missed a practice. If a player did, you knew, beyond any doubt, he was really, really sick. That's being on a team. The player didn't miss because was taking a mental health day, or a mental health summer off. 

You guys can all talk about how things are more important than sports, and of course, some things are. But one absolute thing that sports teach, (and being in combat is the only thing I can think that compares to it) is the importance of team and sacrificing for the benefit of all. Yes, putting the team before yourself, having something bigger than yourself, that's what sports teaches. If you're a true and good teammate, you're at the very least, expected to be there if you can. 

Now, again, I know some others are again going to preach bigger issues and take a high (but completely abstract) moral ground. But again. I don't think you know what it's like to be in a locker room and be a real teammate. 

And also, know this, the other White Sox players may be saying all the right things like they want what's best for Michael, but make no mistake. When he comes back next year, Kopech is going to have to work really hard to prove himself to a lot, I would even say the majority of his teammates. 

One more thing, you're right, Kopech or any athlete owes nothing to the fans, but the door swings both ways, we then owe nothing to that athlete, certainly not the loyalty he didn't show to us. 

 

Multiple times I've had seizures and then returned to the field for my team a week later because we didn't have depth at my position to get by. One time a seizure gave me a strained oblique to the point that while running I had to hold my side while wincing in pain until I could come off the field for a substitute, because again, we didn't have positional depth to get by without me.

Another time I suffered a torn meniscus and ACL and came back and played the rest of the game hobbled. We didn't realize it was torn, we thought it was a hyper extension. I actually didn't realize I had a torn ACL until halfway through the next year, which I then finished out before having surgery.

I get the importance of my teammates.

Note: The above are all very, very stupid things to do in hindsight

[Marky Mark]

I'm kind of torn on how I feel about whether his reasons for opting out are "legitimate" as has been debated in the last few thread pages. However, if he really knows himself well enough that he truly feels he would be a liability to his team's performance if he played this year, then maybe he made the right move, for the sake of the team.

[pcq]

Sox are run more like a family whereas the Twins just reassigned Dobnak after he gave them a number of quality starts. Good to hear Kopech is working on his career. Next year could be challenging as well.

[asindc]

41 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I understand commentators on here saying that Kopech had to take care of himself and how he owes nothing to the fans and then there are the people on here who talk about how they took time off from work, ten weeks for mental health or paternity and how that perfectly fine with their business or boss or whatever. 

But I'm sorry, sports and being a teammate is completely, completely different. I just saw that video on here of Eloy getting up early to work like Jose A. does. Eloy does that so he can look Jose in the eye and they both know that they're both doing doing every thing they can to win. That's what teammates do! They both know they do that stuff so that (like yesterday) Jose can bust his ass down the line and beat out a infield single to tie the game. And Eloy does it so he can see a pitch a little better and hit drive in the game winning run that clinches a playoff spot. It's completely different than showing up for a job and if you need a mental day or two months, just take the time off. Do you think guys giving all that extra effort to win are really going to be completely forgiving a teammate who takes a season off for whatever reason?

People who think what Kopech did was perfectly fine have never REALLY been in a locker room with teammates. You must not know what it's like to run sprints to build speed on a summer morning before it gets too hot, or to be with your teammates shooting free throws, out of season, so that maybe, just maybe, you will make one more basket and win for you and your teammates a tournament or sectional. And for God Damn sake, you don't take the time off during the season. You suck it up and play to help your teammates. When I played and then coached, you never missed a practice. If a player did, you knew, beyond any doubt, he was really, really sick. That's being on a team. The player didn't miss because was taking a mental health day, or a mental health summer off. 

You guys can all talk about how things are more important than sports, and of course, some things are. But one absolute thing that sports teach, (and being in combat is the only thing I can think that compares to it) is the importance of team and sacrificing for the benefit of all. Yes, putting the team before yourself, having something bigger than yourself, that's what sports teaches. If you're a true and good teammate, you're at the very least, expected to be there if you can. 

Now, again, I know some others are again going to preach bigger issues and take a high (but completely abstract) moral ground. But again. I don't think you know what it's like to be in a locker room and be a real teammate. 

And also, know this, the other White Sox players may be saying all the right things like they want what's best for Michael, but make no mistake. When he comes back next year, Kopech is going to have to work really hard to prove himself to a lot, I would even say the majority of his teammates. 

One more thing, you're right, Kopech or any athlete owes nothing to the fans, but the door swings both ways, we then owe nothing to that athlete, certainly not the loyalty he didn't show to us. 

 

1) It depends on the reason.  I’m thinking that most, if not all, of his teammates might understand opting out because he has a wife/soon-to-be-ex pregnant and does not want to risk contracting C19.

2) Personally, I think being a true and good family man is a bigger priority.  It’s not about morality, it’s simply family first.

3) Yes, he is going to have to prove himself to his teammates, but mostly from a baseball standpoint.  

4) True, neither fan nor athlete owe anything to each other, was ever thus.  Perspective on this pasttime.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 hour ago, vilehoopster said:

I understand commentators on here saying that Kopech had to take care of himself and how he owes nothing to the fans and then there are the people on here who talk about how they took time off from work, ten weeks for mental health or paternity and how that perfectly fine with their business or boss or whatever. 

But I'm sorry, sports and being a teammate is completely, completely different. I just saw that video on here of Eloy getting up early to work like Jose A. does. Eloy does that so he can look Jose in the eye and they both know that they're both doing doing every thing they can to win. That's what teammates do! They both know they do that stuff so that (like yesterday) Jose can bust his ass down the line and beat out a infield single to tie the game. And Eloy does it so he can see a pitch a little better and hit drive in the game winning run that clinches a playoff spot. It's completely different than showing up for a job and if you need a mental day or two months, just take the time off. Do you think guys giving all that extra effort to win are really going to be completely forgiving a teammate who takes a season off for whatever reason?

People who think what Kopech did was perfectly fine have never REALLY been in a locker room with teammates. You must not know what it's like to run sprints to build speed on a summer morning before it gets too hot, or to be with your teammates shooting free throws, out of season, so that maybe, just maybe, you will make one more basket and win for you and your teammates a tournament or sectional. And for God Damn sake, you don't take the time off during the season. You suck it up and play to help your teammates. When I played and then coached, you never missed a practice. If a player did, you knew, beyond any doubt, he was really, really sick. That's being on a team. The player didn't miss because was taking a mental health day, or a mental health summer off. 

You guys can all talk about how things are more important than sports, and of course, some things are. But one absolute thing that sports teach, (and being in combat is the only thing I can think that compares to it) is the importance of team and sacrificing for the benefit of all. Yes, putting the team before yourself, having something bigger than yourself, that's what sports teaches. If you're a true and good teammate, you're at the very least, expected to be there if you can. 

Now, again, I know some others are again going to preach bigger issues and take a high (but completely abstract) moral ground. But again. I don't think you know what it's like to be in a locker room and be a real teammate. 

And also, know this, the other White Sox players may be saying all the right things like they want what's best for Michael, but make no mistake. When he comes back next year, Kopech is going to have to work really hard to prove himself to a lot, I would even say the majority of his teammates. 

One more thing, you're right, Kopech or any athlete owes nothing to the fans, but the door swings both ways, we then owe nothing to that athlete, certainly not the loyalty he didn't show to us. 

 

Full disclosure here: I was a terrible athlete. I played on two state championship teams in high school playing football and I coach high school football and junior high track and field. This is an absolute trash take. What Kopech did was fine and his teammates understand. 

[greg775]

3 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Too bad this bum decided to take the year off. He would be a great asset right about now.

Mental issues, if he has them ,are issues. We're taught that all the time. We're taught to prevent suicides by tackling mental issues. Just because it affects your fandom doesn't mean your take on this is correct. He's not a bum if he's taking care of personal problems and mental health. This is being done in society all the time. You have to take care of yourself. That's the No. 1 rule in the world. Take care of yourself and your family falls in line with that as well. You should be sad for yourself if that is your true position.

[Dick Allen]

What he did was fine and his teammates support his decision. Whatever the reason , Covid, his wife’s pregnancy, his marriage, his mental health, he wasn’t ready to go this year, and probably wouldn’t have contributed much anyway. It is no different than a star NCAA football player opting out of a bowl game. Are they quitters? It was the smart decision for Kopech and the White Sox, and I am no Kopech fanboy. He has some work to do to convince me, but in a way, his injury might be one of the better things that ever happened to him. I think he is going to be smarter both on and off the mound. One thing you don’t have to worry about is he will work his ass off.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Dick Allen

[Thad Bosley]

I could understand any fan angst re: Kopech if, in this abbreviated season with expanded playoffs, the Sox came up a game or two short of making the postseason.  That is obviously not the case this season.  

We should just enjoy the dance in 2020 with those who brung us, and then enthusiastically look forward to the elite talent infusion next season with both Kopech and Vaughn.  It is downright scary (in a good way) just how talented this team can/will be once those two are brought into the fold, given how good we look now.   

Edited September 18, 2020 by Thad Bosley

[oneofthemikes]

Good Lord this is a dumb argument. He, with the blessing of the White Sox and MLB, opted out of a season that saw many players do the same. Whether that was due to concerns about COVID, anxiety about having a baby, or depression over going through a divorce (or any combination thereof) is not the business of anyone on this board.

Provided he comes back and is physically prepared to compete, I highly doubt that his teammates are going to feel anything toward him other than the excitement of adding another dynamic talent to a team that just made the playoffs for the first time in 12 years. 

[MEANS]

ahhh sox talk....nothing ever surprises me....they day after we end our 12 year playoff drought and b****ing about Kopech...sum good stuff.....?

[hi8is]

8 hours ago, MEANS said:

ahhh sox talk....nothing ever surprises me....they day after we end our 12 year playoff drought and b****ing about Kopech...sum good stuff.....?

your solid perspective means a lot. ? ?

Edited September 19, 2020 by hi8is