Kopech update

[greg775]

1 hour ago, vilehoopster said:

I understand commentators on here saying that Kopech had to take care of himself and how he owes nothing to the fans and then there are the people on here who talk about how they took time off from work, ten weeks for mental health or paternity and how that perfectly fine with their business or boss or whatever. 

But I'm sorry, sports and being a teammate is completely, completely different. I just saw that video on here of Eloy getting up early to work like Jose A. does. Eloy does that so he can look Jose in the eye and they both know that they're both doing doing every thing they can to win. That's what teammates do! They both know they do that stuff so that (like yesterday) Jose can bust his ass down the line and beat out a infield single to tie the game. And Eloy does it so he can see a pitch a little better and hit drive in the game winning run that clinches a playoff spot. It's completely different than showing up for a job and if you need a mental day or two months, just take the time off. Do you think guys giving all that extra effort to win are really going to be completely forgiving a teammate who takes a season off for whatever reason?

People who think what Kopech did was perfectly fine have never REALLY been in a locker room with teammates. You must not know what it's like to run sprints to build speed on a summer morning before it gets too hot, or to be with your teammates shooting free throws, out of season, so that maybe, just maybe, you will make one more basket and win for you and your teammates a tournament or sectional. And for God Damn sake, you don't take the time off during the season. You suck it up and play to help your teammates. When I played and then coached, you never missed a practice. If a player did, you knew, beyond any doubt, he was really, really sick. That's being on a team. The player didn't miss because was taking a mental health day, or a mental health summer off. 

You guys can all talk about how things are more important than sports, and of course, some things are. But one absolute thing that sports teach, (and being in combat is the only thing I can think that compares to it) is the importance of team and sacrificing for the benefit of all. Yes, putting the team before yourself, having something bigger than yourself, that's what sports teaches. If you're a true and good teammate, you're at the very least, expected to be there if you can. 

Now, again, I know some others are again going to preach bigger issues and take a high (but completely abstract) moral ground. But again. I don't think you know what it's like to be in a locker room and be a real teammate. 

And also, know this, the other White Sox players may be saying all the right things like they want what's best for Michael, but make no mistake. When he comes back next year, Kopech is going to have to work really hard to prove himself to a lot, I would even say the majority of his teammates. 

One more thing, you're right, Kopech or any athlete owes nothing to the fans, but the door swings both ways, we then owe nothing to that athlete, certainly not the loyalty he didn't show to us. 

 

This is not a good take. You feelings about locker room mentality do not hold water this season because of COVID. MLB and NBA and some other sports are make believe cause of the kind of cash these players make. For a guy to sit out and pass up this kind of money, that in itself means it's serious. His teammates will be fine with him and welcome him back. For one this is the age of COVID .You wanna opt out; you opt out! Second if there are family issues or mental issues you opt out. If anybody complains they are the ones with the problem.

As far as him getting a ring if the Sox won it all ... teams give rings to a lot of people. I remember reading some former Chiefs player got a ring in the mail the other day. So no harm in giving MK a ring if Sox win it. Players don't wear those huge rings much anyway; they put them away for keeping in a display box.

[mqr]

Not sure why I thought this thread would be worth clicking

[Quin]

16 minutes ago, greg775 said:

This is not a good take. You feelings about locker room mentality do not hold water this season because of COVID. MLB and NBA and some other sports are make believe cause of the kind of cash these players make. For a guy to sit out and pass up this kind of money, that in itself means it's serious. His teammates will be fine with him and welcome him back. For one this is the age of COVID .You wanna opt out; you opt out! Second if there are family issues or mental issues you opt out. If anybody complains they are the ones with the problem.

As far as him getting a ring if the Sox won it all ... teams give rings to a lot of people. I remember reading some former Chiefs player got a ring in the mail the other day. So no harm in giving MK a ring if Sox win it. Players don't wear those huge rings much anyway; they put them away for keeping in a display box.

Greg with the boom hammer.

[gusguyman]

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

Greg with the boom hammer.

For a guy who hated the idea of rebuilds, greg sure has rebuilt his reputation here quite a bit over the last year.

[soxfan49]

25 minutes ago, greg775 said:

This is not a good take. You feelings about locker room mentality do not hold water this season because of COVID. MLB and NBA and some other sports are make believe cause of the kind of cash these players make. For a guy to sit out and pass up this kind of money, that in itself means it's serious. His teammates will be fine with him and welcome him back. For one this is the age of COVID .You wanna opt out; you opt out! Second if there are family issues or mental issues you opt out. If anybody complains they are the ones with the problem.

As far as him getting a ring if the Sox won it all ... teams give rings to a lot of people. I remember reading some former Chiefs player got a ring in the mail the other day. So no harm in giving MK a ring if Sox win it. Players don't wear those huge rings much anyway; they put them away for keeping in a display box.

Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit

*wwe chant*

You're the man, Greg!

[chitown87]

Greg's reputation goes as Abreu goes

[BRDSR]

1 hour ago, vilehoopster said:

I understand commentators on here saying that Kopech had to take care of himself and how he owes nothing to the fans and then there are the people on here who talk about how they took time off from work, ten weeks for mental health or paternity and how that perfectly fine with their business or boss or whatever. 

But I'm sorry, sports and being a teammate is completely, completely different. I just saw that video on here of Eloy getting up early to work like Jose A. does. Eloy does that so he can look Jose in the eye and they both know that they're both doing doing every thing they can to win. That's what teammates do! They both know they do that stuff so that (like yesterday) Jose can bust his ass down the line and beat out a infield single to tie the game. And Eloy does it so he can see a pitch a little better and hit drive in the game winning run that clinches a playoff spot. It's completely different than showing up for a job and if you need a mental day or two months, just take the time off. Do you think guys giving all that extra effort to win are really going to be completely forgiving a teammate who takes a season off for whatever reason?

People who think what Kopech did was perfectly fine have never REALLY been in a locker room with teammates. You must not know what it's like to run sprints to build speed on a summer morning before it gets too hot, or to be with your teammates shooting free throws, out of season, so that maybe, just maybe, you will make one more basket and win for you and your teammates a tournament or sectional. And for God Damn sake, you don't take the time off during the season. You suck it up and play to help your teammates. When I played and then coached, you never missed a practice. If a player did, you knew, beyond any doubt, he was really, really sick. That's being on a team. The player didn't miss because was taking a mental health day, or a mental health summer off. 

You guys can all talk about how things are more important than sports, and of course, some things are. But one absolute thing that sports teach, (and being in combat is the only thing I can think that compares to it) is the importance of team and sacrificing for the benefit of all. Yes, putting the team before yourself, having something bigger than yourself, that's what sports teaches. If you're a true and good teammate, you're at the very least, expected to be there if you can. 

Now, again, I know some others are again going to preach bigger issues and take a high (but completely abstract) moral ground. But again. I don't think you know what it's like to be in a locker room and be a real teammate. 

And also, know this, the other White Sox players may be saying all the right things like they want what's best for Michael, but make no mistake. When he comes back next year, Kopech is going to have to work really hard to prove himself to a lot, I would even say the majority of his teammates. 

One more thing, you're right, Kopech or any athlete owes nothing to the fans, but the door swings both ways, we then owe nothing to that athlete, certainly not the loyalty he didn't show to us. 

 

Interesting...I don’t usually pull this card, but:

I’m in the United States military (which you’ve already invoked...are you?).  I was one of the first “asked” to deploy in the COVID environment in May.  I was not given an option to opt out, and neither were my teammates.  Had I not gone, it’s possible that the person I was to replace would have stayed much longer this his/her standard tour.

I traveled on commercial air and military air that might as well have been commercial.  Once I arrived, things were probably safer here than in the US, although that wasn’t clear at the time.  More importantly, I left my wife and two children at home to navigate a global pandemic on their own.

Had we had been given the option to opt out, I think I would have gone anyway...after all, no one volunteers for military service based on the guaranteed safety measures.  Would have been a difficult decision though.

But I would never, NEVER disparage a teammate for opting out when he/she had the chance.  And I damn well wouldn’t talk bad about a fellow service member WHO I DIDNT EVEN KNOW about the decision he/she made.

I’m confident you don’t know what it’s like to be part of a team.  Because when you’re part of a team, you understand that a teammate’s personal/family life take precedence over the team.  Even, when possible, when you’re a teammate in the US military.  SO MUCH MORE SO than when you’re a teammate playing a game.

I’m so tired of this.  So many people think they have a right answer in a situation that doesn’t lend itself to right answers, then they impose their opinion (note: not right answer) on everyone who disagrees.  It’s so ignorant, which is so tiring.

Chaneling Jason, go puck yourself, assuming you’re a hockey fan.  Otherwise...

[BamaDoc]

3 minutes ago, BRDSR said:

Interesting...I don’t usually pull this card, but:

I’m in the United States military (which you’ve already invoked...are you?).  I was one of the first “asked” to deploy in the COVID environment in May.  I was not given an option to opt out, and neither were my teammates.  Had I not gone, it’s possible that the person I was to replace would have stayed much longer this his/her standard tour.

I traveled on commercial air and military air that might as well have been commercial.  Once I arrived, things were probably safer here than in the US, although that wasn’t clear at the time.  More importantly, I left my wife and two children at home to navigate a global pandemic on their own.

Had we had been given the option to opt out, I think I would have gone anyway...after all, no one volunteers for military service based on the guaranteed safety measures.  Would have been a difficult decision though.

But I would never, NEVER disparage a teammate for opting out when he/she had the chance.  And I damn well wouldn’t talk bad about a fellow service member WHO I DIDNT EVEN KNOW about the decision he/she made.

I’m confident you don’t know what it’s like to be part of a team.  Because when you’re part of a team, you understand that a teammate’s personal/family life take precedence over the team.  Even, when possible, when you’re a teammate in the US military.  SO MUCH MORE SO than when you’re a teammate playing a game.

I’m so tired of this.  So many people think they have a right answer in a situation that doesn’t lend itself to right answers, then they impose their opinion (note: not right answer) on everyone who disagrees.  It’s so ignorant, which is so tiring.

Chaneling Jason, go puck yourself, assuming you’re a hockey fan.  Otherwise...

Great take and thank you for your service!

[BamaDoc]

I will make a couple predictions:  First if Kopech comes back next year and has an ERA of 2.50 and becomes our #1 or 2 in the future, everyone will praise him for being smart, getting healthy(whatever way) and maturing.

Second if he comes back and has a 7 ERA, most people will pile on and it will be ugly.  In essence, like almost all players, his performance will be the determining factor in how many perceive him.

I hope he and all realize and understand that your true friends are there for you in either situation.  If they are only there in situation number one, they aren't true friends.  When you think all is lost, the guy who shows up or picks up the phone when no one else will is the true friend.

[vilehoopster]

It's hard for me to debate all the responses, but let me tackle a few. 

"For one this is the age of COVID .You wanna opt out; you opt out! Second if there are family issues or mental issues you opt out. If anybody complains they are the ones with the problem."

Now this is all great and makes sense, EXCEPT, the Sox have two players who did not decide to sit out in this time of Covid. In fact, they caught covid and chose to play anyway. Both of these two players are suffering still from the effects. One of whom is being continually savaged on this board. Don't you think their teammates appreciate their sacrifice for the team, putting the team before themselves. And again, make no mistake, their decision to play shows that teammate mentality that I mentioned in my first post. Yes, you think what Kopech did is okay and others might too, but there will be guys not happy with Kopech next spring. Especially, if a young pitcher, not Kopech with Kopech's stuff, gets shelled in a game that keeps the Sox out of the World Series. That is the nature of sports. 

"What is your similar situation? How much money have you earned by playing a sport professionally, as your career? "

What does money have to do for or against my point? I'm talking about being in a locker room with teammates and knowing that you can trust and depend on each other. Money has nothing to do with it. In fact, money corrupts this ideal because today, pro athletes abandon their teammates all the time for money. Also, what does money matter? Kopech and his teammates will be millionaires whether he played this summer or not. But his teammates might not have a World Series ring this fall because he chose to sit out. His teammates are aware of this. 

To the guy who said he shared my mentality in high school and played with ACL injuries and regrets it. Of course you do. ACL injuries is a completely different thing that what Kopech chose to do. No coach should have ever let you play if you had ACL injuries or even suspected knee problems. 

To the guy who talked about his small business and all the pressure and the big money and how yet, they still can take time off. Yes, I'm sure there's desire for success there and pressure to succeed. But that doesn't even start to compare to a kid who's a junior in high school shooting a free throw with 30 seconds left in a championship game with every relative he has in the state watching in the stands and everyone in his school watching. It's not the same, not the same world. That's why missing is not accepted in sports while it still is in your corporate world. 

To the guy who said he played on state champion teams in football and said I was wrong. I am a dubious of your claim. If you really were on state champion teams or even teams that competed for state championships, the mentality I described was absolutely a part of what you saw in practice and in the summer or there's no way the team you were on was a state contender. 

[Chisoxfn]

28 minutes ago, BRDSR said:

Interesting...I don’t usually pull this card, but:

I’m in the United States military (which you’ve already invoked...are you?).  I was one of the first “asked” to deploy in the COVID environment in May.  I was not given an option to opt out, and neither were my teammates.  Had I not gone, it’s possible that the person I was to replace would have stayed much longer this his/her standard tour.

I traveled on commercial air and military air that might as well have been commercial.  Once I arrived, things were probably safer here than in the US, although that wasn’t clear at the time.  More importantly, I left my wife and two children at home to navigate a global pandemic on their own.

Had we had been given the option to opt out, I think I would have gone anyway...after all, no one volunteers for military service based on the guaranteed safety measures.  Would have been a difficult decision though.

But I would never, NEVER disparage a teammate for opting out when he/she had the chance.  And I damn well wouldn’t talk bad about a fellow service member WHO I DIDNT EVEN KNOW about the decision he/she made.

I’m confident you don’t know what it’s like to be part of a team.  Because when you’re part of a team, you understand that a teammate’s personal/family life take precedence over the team.  Even, when possible, when you’re a teammate in the US military.  SO MUCH MORE SO than when you’re a teammate playing a game.

I’m so tired of this.  So many people think they have a right answer in a situation that doesn’t lend itself to right answers, then they impose their opinion (note: not right answer) on everyone who disagrees.  It’s so ignorant, which is so tiring.

Chaneling Jason, go puck yourself, assuming you’re a hockey fan.  Otherwise...

Excellent post & thank you for your service! 

[vilehoopster]

Let me make one more comment, whether you agree with me or not. 

I think the White Sox administration agrees with me also, no matter what they may be saying on the topic. 

I just saw that Crochet just got called up. And Stievers being called up last week?  

You don't think that's the Sox administration sending a message to Kopech. I think it is. 

[NWINFan]

I hesitate to make any real judgements because I don't know the young man and what are the particulars in his situation. I don' think that just because this is a sports situation that it makes it any different. In the end, Kopech has to live with himself one way or another. 

I also don't know how his teammates feel about him. They seemed to be a happy bunch when they clinched their playoff spot.

When I was in my mid-twenties, I made plenty of mistakes. The confidence and experience just wasn't there. The great part of it was when I met my wife. You can keep the rest. Whatever Kopech's situation is, I don't envy him. 

[Quin]

12 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

It's hard for me to debate all the responses, but let me tackle a few. 

"For one this is the age of COVID .You wanna opt out; you opt out! Second if there are family issues or mental issues you opt out. If anybody complains they are the ones with the problem."

Now this is all great and makes sense, EXCEPT, the Sox have two players who did not decide to sit out in this time of Covid. In fact, they caught covid and chose to play anyway. Both of these two players are suffering still from the effects. One of whom is being continually savaged on this board. Don't you think their teammates appreciate their sacrifice for the team, putting the team before themselves. And again, make no mistake, their decision to play shows that teammate mentality that I mentioned in my first post. Yes, you think what Kopech did is okay and others might too, but there will be guys not happy with Kopech next spring. Especially, if a young pitcher, not Kopech with Kopech's stuff, gets shelled in a game that keeps the Sox out of the World Series. That is the nature of sports. 

"What is your similar situation? How much money have you earned by playing a sport professionally, as your career? "

What does money have to do for or against my point? I'm talking about being in a locker room with teammates and knowing that you can trust and depend on each other. Money has nothing to do with it. In fact, money corrupts this ideal because today, pro athletes abandon their teammates all the time for money. Also, what does money matter? Kopech and his teammates will be millionaires whether he played this summer or not. But his teammates might not have a World Series ring this fall because he chose to sit out. His teammates are aware of this. 

To the guy who said he shared my mentality in high school and played with ACL injuries and regrets it. Of course you do. ACL injuries is a completely different thing that what Kopech chose to do. No coach should have ever let you play if you had ACL injuries or even suspected knee problems. 

To the guy who talked about his small business and all the pressure and the big money and how yet, they still can take time off. Yes, I'm sure there's desire for success there and pressure to succeed. But that doesn't even start to compare to a kid who's a junior in high school shooting a free throw with 30 seconds left in a championship game with every relative he has in the state watching in the stands and everyone in his school watching. It's not the same, not the same world. That's why missing is not accepted in sports while it still is in your corporate world. 

To the guy who said he played on state champion teams in football and said I was wrong. I am a dubious of your claim. If you really were on state champion teams or even teams that competed for state championships, the mentality I described was absolutely a part of what you saw in practice and in the summer or there's no way the team you were on was a state contender. 

I don't regret it, I said it was stupid. My knee did a freak thing where it built muscle around the torn meniscus and ACL to compensate. After I had surgery, I blazed through rehab as if it was nothing - if I hadn't torn the meniscus as well, my therapist thinks it would have been a four month rehab.

Also, I was the coach. I'm talking about collegiate club sports. 

You took a meatball position and said none of us know what it it's like to put ourselves out there for our teammates if we were standing up for Kopech.

[elrockinMT]

4 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Too bad this bum decided to take the year off. He would be a great asset right about now.

How did you get out of the basement? Who left the door unlocked?

[Green Line]

Ya'll are on a discussion board, but at the end of the day it seems you just want to hear your opinion come out of someone elses' mouth.  ?

[hi8is]

16 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

You don't think that's the Sox administration sending a message to Kopech.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Kopech... other than perhaps one of them ( Stiever ) wouldn't have been called up. Aside from that, there's no message being sent. It's 100% about asset management and roster construction to win baseball games.

[Rowand44]

20 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

It's hard for me to debate all the responses, but let me tackle a few. 

"For one this is the age of COVID .You wanna opt out; you opt out! Second if there are family issues or mental issues you opt out. If anybody complains they are the ones with the problem."

Now this is all great and makes sense, EXCEPT, the Sox have two players who did not decide to sit out in this time of Covid. In fact, they caught covid and chose to play anyway. Both of these two players are suffering still from the effects. One of whom is being continually savaged on this board. Don't you think their teammates appreciate their sacrifice for the team, putting the team before themselves. And again, make no mistake, their decision to play shows that teammate mentality that I mentioned in my first post. Yes, you think what Kopech did is okay and others might too, but there will be guys not happy with Kopech next spring. Especially, if a young pitcher, not Kopech with Kopech's stuff, gets shelled in a game that keeps the Sox out of the World Series. That is the nature of sports. 

"What is your similar situation? How much money have you earned by playing a sport professionally, as your career? "

What does money have to do for or against my point? I'm talking about being in a locker room with teammates and knowing that you can trust and depend on each other. Money has nothing to do with it. In fact, money corrupts this ideal because today, pro athletes abandon their teammates all the time for money. Also, what does money matter? Kopech and his teammates will be millionaires whether he played this summer or not. But his teammates might not have a World Series ring this fall because he chose to sit out. His teammates are aware of this. 

To the guy who said he shared my mentality in high school and played with ACL injuries and regrets it. Of course you do. ACL injuries is a completely different thing that what Kopech chose to do. No coach should have ever let you play if you had ACL injuries or even suspected knee problems. 

To the guy who talked about his small business and all the pressure and the big money and how yet, they still can take time off. Yes, I'm sure there's desire for success there and pressure to succeed. But that doesn't even start to compare to a kid who's a junior in high school shooting a free throw with 30 seconds left in a championship game with every relative he has in the state watching in the stands and everyone in his school watching. It's not the same, not the same world. That's why missing is not accepted in sports while it still is in your corporate world. 

To the guy who said he played on state champion teams in football and said I was wrong. I am a dubious of your claim. If you really were on state champion teams or even teams that competed for state championships, the mentality I described was absolutely a part of what you saw in practice and in the summer or there's no way the team you were on was a state contender. 

LOL, I'd be willing to gamble that most of this board has played competitive sports at one time or another, whether it be in high school or college, etc.  So yes, a lot of us know what it's like to be in a locker room with a lot of teammates.  You just have a strange mind set while the rest of us are empathetic to another human's situation.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Rowand44

[South Side Hit Men]

Would be wise to hear the words of Coach Norman Dale. Let’s celebrate those who choose to commit, work and sacrifice THIS season, for pennies on the dollar.
 

We can celebrate future teams and players, if they choose and are able to return down the road, when we cross that path.
 

Hopefully health, mental and physical, allows Koepch to return, if he so chooses. He did ok (5.02 ERA) in the four games he appeared in.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by South Side Hit Men

[hi8is]

2 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

LOL, I'd be willing to gamble that most of this board has played competitive sports at what time or another, whether it be in high school or college, etc.  So yes, a lot of us know what it's like to be in a locker room with a lot of teammates.  You just have a strange mind set while the rest of us are empathetic to another human's situation.

Don't discount the OP man... he's a vile hoopster, afterall. Kid got mad game.

[35thstreetswarm]

One thing I don't understand is how we've gone from "we have no idea why he opted out, it's none of our business, stop speculating" to "he opted out because of totally unassailable safety concerns."  I'm all for avoiding needless speculation.  But do we know he opted out primarily because of COVID?  I'd heard it has a lot to do with uncertainty about his place in the rotation, ramp-up time, etc.  

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Ya'll are on a discussion board, but at the end of the day it seems you just want to hear your opinion come out of someone elses' mouth.  ?

That is a two way street.  No is going to roll over for your opinion because it hurts your feelings.

[Green Line]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

That is a two way street.  No is going to roll over for your opinion because it hurts your feelings.

Oh, I know.  I haven't personally attacked anyone.  Im having fun, ya'll just seem pissed off.  ?

[hi8is]

6 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

One thing I don't understand is how we've gone from "we have no idea why he opted out, it's none of our business, stop speculating" to "he opted out because of totally unassailable safety concerns."  I'm all for avoiding needless speculation.  But do we know he opted out primarily because of COVID?  I'd heard it has a lot to do with uncertainty about his place in the rotation, ramp-up time, etc.  

Initially when there was no news released other than his opt-out, anything stated was speculation. After that we learned the choice was multi-faceted...

- Divorce + Newborn on the way
- Concerns about his arm's health
- COVID concerns
- Resulting mental health / personal concerns

All of these things have been expressed from sources directly related to him and are no longer in the world of "speculation".

Speculation included things like, "Venessa cheated on him" and "the child isn't his own".

Let's all be happy he's resuming throwing activity, wish him the best for our team, and be supportive.

[southsider2k5]

30 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Let me make one more comment, whether you agree with me or not. 

I think the White Sox administration agrees with me also, no matter what they may be saying on the topic. 

I just saw that Crochet just got called up. And Stievers being called up last week?  

You don't think that's the Sox administration sending a message to Kopech. I think it is. 

The White Sox are not making moves to send a message to Kopech.  The only message they are sending is that they thinking they can win it this year, and they aren't going to hold back from trying.