Crochet

[southsider2k5]

 

[oneofthemikes]

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

For Lopez and Cease didn't he do away with (practically) each of their Curveballs?  Which was each of their best pitches... 

Don't like that at all. Big league clubs changing the things that made pitchers successful in the minors is exactly how Washington derailed Giolito. The answer to everything isn't "ditch the breaking stuff and throw cutters".

[ChiSox1917]

4 hours ago, oneofthemikes said:

Don't like that at all. Big league clubs changing the things that made pitchers successful in the minors is exactly how Washington derailed Giolito. The answer to everything isn't "ditch the breaking stuff and throw cutters".

You think you know more than the legend don cooper?

[kwill]

Do you think if a redraft today happened for the 2020 draft- would Crochet be the 1st overall pick? 

[ChiSox1917]

7 minutes ago, kwill said:

Do you think if a redraft today happened for the 2020 draft- would Crochet be the 1st overall pick? 

No.  Might have been second though

[MackowiakYakYak]

I’d say on re-ranking he’d jump into the top 5 easily, but Torkelson and Lacy are still slightly next level in my mind. His biggest risk was that he had weird usage and average stats at the NCAA level, but his stuff absolutely plays and he looks beautiful throwing. From a pure drafting standpoint (we will see how the rest of his development goes and if we can develop him fully into a starter) he is a massive hit and I’d say you give the front office a perfect score on that pick. 

[Dominikk85]

23 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Starter.  With this stuff, he has a chance to be a TOR guy and they need to see if he can do it.  Starters have far, far more value than relievers.

Yes, I  thought he was a dubious pick, and if they leave him as a reliever, I will, unfortunately, have been correct.  

Starter.

Actually a high end reliever is not a dissapointing outcome for a 10th overall pick. The average 10th pick produces about 7 war over the 6 control years and the best relievers average about 2 war per year (chapman averaged 2.4 war his best 6 years).

That means if crochet becomes hader or chapman that would be better than the average 10th or 11th pick.

It is correct you don't want to draft a player with a reliever CEILING, you do need at least a 30-40% chance to start to migrate the downside and of course you give crochet every  chance to become a starter the next couple years but if he turns out to be a high leverage reliever that absolutely would be a positive outcome.

Here are the 11th overall picks 2007 to 16 (because later ones cant be evaluated yet).

2016: burger

2015: kyle Lewis

2014: pentecost

2013: dom smith

2012: addison russell

2011: george Springer 

2010:deck McGuire (sounds made up:))

2009: tyler matzek

2008: justin Smoak

2007: phillipe aumont 

So you can see that a high end reliever would not be the best guy of that group (that would be springer as the ceiling) but still that outcome would probably be 3rd or 4th at worst out of those 10 so about 60th to 70th percentile outcome.

Still of course you dont want a ceiling reliever at 11 but if the sox think it is 40% good starter, 40% high end reliever, 20% journeyman or bust that is a great pick.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Dominikk85

[Harold's Leg Lift]

8 hours ago, kwill said:

Do you think if a redraft today happened for the 2020 draft- would Crochet be the 1st overall pick? 

Detroit was locked in on taking a hitter. He definitely would go top 5 likely he goes top 3.  

[GreenSox]

3 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

Actually a high end reliever is not a dissapointing outcome for a 10th overall pick.

Still of course you dont want a ceiling reliever at 11 but if the sox think it is 40% good starter, 40% high end reliever, 20% journeyman or bust that is a great pick.

It's a consolation prize.  High end relievers are readily available in free agency.  The Sox have a chance for the real prize...at least see what you've got.  You need to hit a home-run on some of these picks; it won't always happen, and it usually doesn't, but that's the whole point of tanking - to put yourself in a better position to get a stud.  Not to get a reliever.

[mqr]

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

It's a consolation prize.  High end relievers are readily available in free agency.  The Sox have a chance for the real prize...at least see what you've got.  You need to hit a home-run on some of these picks; it won't always happen, and it usually doesn't, but that's the whole point of tanking - to put yourself in a better position to get a stud.  Not to get a reliever.

Crochet isn’t a tank pick. Vaughn and Madrigal are your tank picks. 

[he gone.]

25 minutes ago, mqr said:

Crochet isn’t a tank pick. Vaughn and Madrigal are your tank picks. 

I'll take those tank picks. Championship rosters need 20 guys who can do a job, and do it consistently and well. You only need 5 or so guys who are superstars. A few power, impact bats, a few power pitchers. We should have those in Eloy/Robert/Abreu/Giolito/Anderson.  The rest need to be able to work counts, get on base, etc. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

It's a consolation prize.  High end relievers are readily available in free agency.  The Sox have a chance for the real prize...at least see what you've got.  You need to hit a home-run on some of these picks; it won't always happen, and it usually doesn't, but that's the whole point of tanking - to put yourself in a better position to get a stud.  Not to get a reliever.

They also cost eight figures a year and multiple year contracts.

[Dominikk85]

33 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They also cost eight figures a year and multiple year contracts.

 

Or two top 100 prospects in a trade if they are multiple year cost controlled and under 30 (see chapman, Miller, Diaz).

Obviously you try to make crochet a starter but if it doesn't work being a backend reliever is a very nice floor.

On the other hand if you have a finesse/control pitcher throwing 92 and starting doesn't work you only have a spot starter or middle reliever which is not so great.

Crochet also has upside, he could be an excellent starter too (not using the sale comparison here but he could be a dominant starter).

Getting a possible dominant starter with a "floor" of an elite reliever is a damn nice get at 11 (of course not the actual floor as the actual floor is  blows out his arm and never pitches again - but a "good outcome floor", maybe like 50th percentile or so)

Edited September 24, 2020 by Dominikk85

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I wouldn't be suprised if Crochet is just SO GOOD in the bullpen (this year and next) that it almost becomes difficult to pull him from that and have him start.... See Josh Hader, for years they said they were gunna try him back at SP and he was just too good in RP that they couldn't risk it. It's a great floor for sure

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I wouldn't be suprised if Crochet is just SO GOOD in the bullpen (this year and next) that it almost becomes difficult to pull him from that and have him start.... See Josh Hader, for years they said they were gunna try him back at SP and he was just too good in RP that they couldn't risk it. It's a great floor for sure

I believe Chris Sale once had to murder kenny williams in order to be allowed to go back to starting. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Dominikk85 said:

 

Or two top 100 prospects in a trade if they are multiple year cost controlled and under 30 (see chapman, Miller, Diaz).

Obviously you try to make crochet a starter but if it doesn't work being a backend reliever is a very nice floor.

On the other hand if you have a finesse/control pitcher throwing 92 and starting doesn't work you only have a spot starter or middle reliever which is not so great.

Crochet also has upside, he could be an excellent starter too (not using the sale comparison here but he could be a dominant starter).

Getting a possible dominant starter with a "floor" of an elite reliever is a damn nice get at 11 (of course not the actual floor as the actual floor is  blows out his arm and never pitches again - but a "good outcome floor", maybe like 50th percentile or so)

Its all of this.  No the goal for Garrett isn't to be a reliever, but if he does, he can hold a REALLY valuable roster spot with his talents.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I wouldn't be suprised if Crochet is just SO GOOD in the bullpen (this year and next) that it almost becomes difficult to pull him from that and have him start.... See Josh Hader, for years they said they were gunna try him back at SP and he was just too good in RP that they couldn't risk it. It's a great floor for sure

 I think the pen we have now, and coming up behind this guys will make it more possible.

[mqr]

If there’s not a minor league season next year, or they start behind MLB, do you say fuck it and give him a trial by fire as a starter?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

If there’s not a minor league season next year, or they start behind MLB, do you say fuck it and give him a trial by fire as a starter?

If I had to guess, Crochet starts 2020 in Winston Salem or Birmingham as a starter if there is a MiLB season next year.  If not, he is in the Sox pen.

[AJ'S Cousin]

Ok, i'm getting slammed a bit for the " Great Pitching Coach Remark". Ok, maybe not great but still good. But now it seems the problem is Renteria!!!! 

It looks like the Cubs were right when they let him go for Maddon. The Sox i believe took him for 2 reasons--- He was cheap and they thought he'd relate to the heavy Latin Roster. 

We always seem to be pennywise and dollar foolish. Encarnacion seems to  waste, could have rotated rotated McCann and Grandl as DH'S and Mazara looks like a waste both offensively and defensively. Much better of with Engel in right full time. Gio was a waste of money along with Cisek. we could have signed Mehta with the Cisek, Encarnacion, Gonzales and Mazara money. 

Getting sick watching tonight's game with the Cubs, 7-0 in the 6th. 

Renteria has to go, bring back Ozzie!!!! LOL. We need a proven winner to manage a team that could be better than the 2005 team.  Not sure who's out there. Reinsdorf just spent 24 million plus for Donovan to coach the  Bulls and we get a bargain basement  manager. We were supposed to better this year but not win it. 

Next year was supposed to our year and it looks like this may be the case. Crotchet, Bummer, Foster,Huer and Marshall have the stuff to be a shut down bullpen and a closer could emerge from this group if Colome is gone (which i believe he's gone. Cease, Dunning have great potential, but potential get's you fired. Need another top flight starter to go with Kuechel and Giolito. Rodon may be done. 

we'll have money, Colome, Encarnacion off the books will help. 

Must KEEP McCann to have the best catching duo in baseball, REMEMBER, McCann is Giolito's caddy, we need him!!! 

Notice, i haven't said a word about the offense. No need to, it's set for the next 3 or 4 years. 

thanks for listening and welcoming to the gang.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Quin]

24 minutes ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

Ok, i'm getting slammed a bit for the " Great Pitching Coach Remark". Ok, maybe not great but still good. But now it seems the problem is Renteria!!!! 

It looks like the Cubs were right when they let him go for Maddon. The Sox i believe took him for 2 reasons--- He was cheap and they thought he'd relate to the heavy Latin Roster. 

We always seem to be pennywise and dollar foolish. Encarnacion seems to  waste, could have rotated rotated McCann and Grandl as DH'S and Mazara looks like a waste both offensively and defensively. Much better of with Engel in right full time. Gio was a waste of money along with Cisek. we could have signed Mehta with the Cisek, Encarnacion, Gonzales and Mazara money. 

Getting sick watching tonight's game with the Cubs, 7-0 in the 6th. 

Renteria has to go, bring back Ozzie!!!! LOL. We need a proven winner to manage a team that could be better than the 2005 team.  Not sure who's out there. Reinsdorf just spent 24 million plus for Donovan to coach the  Bulls and we get a bargain basement  manager. We were supposed to better this year but not win it. 

Next year was supposed to our year and it looks like this may be the case. Crotchet, Bummer, Foster,Huer and Marshall have the stuff to be a shut down bullpen and a closer could emerge from this group if Colome is gone (which i believe he's gone. Cease, Dunning have great potential, but potential get's you fired. Need another top flight starter to go with Kuechel and Giolito. Rodon may be done. 

we'll have money, Colome, Encarnacion off the books will help. 

Must KEEP McCann to have the best catching duo in baseball, REMEMBER, McCann is Giolito's caddy, we need him!!! 

Notice, i haven't said a word about the offense. No need to, it's set for the next 3 or 4 years. 

thanks for listening and welcoming to the gang.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sir this is a thread about Garrett Crochet

[joejoedairy]

5 hours ago, Quin said:

Sir this is a thread about Garrett Crochet

I thought this was a Wendy's 

[GreenSox]

Andrew Miller had 4 great years;  Edwin Diaz had one (the Mets overpaid).  Staying power is another issue.

They can always put him back in the pen if it doesn't work out.  Yea, closers are expensive; but not nearly as expensive as starters.

[AJ'S Cousin]

On 9/21/2020 at 9:12 AM, AJ'S Cousin said:

Starter or reliever?? Great start but 3 innings in college and 1 inning in majors does not make a career. 101 fastball? Great!! But very little movement. Good hitters can catchup to 101. Pluses we have is is a GREAT PITCHING COACH. very good catchers that can call a great game and pitch framing  He can be a great one but let’s not rush him. We brought Giolito along properly, Bummer etc is he a starter or reliever. That needs to be determined   Bummers return in his old form is key to getting to the WS. Huer looks great!! Foster looks like a stud. Jace is coming along. We have the potential to have a really great shut down bullpen.   

Watching Crotchet toss 2 innings tonight with a devastating slider to go along with his amazing 100 mph fastball.  he did great. If they don't stretch him next year to try and make him a starter, he'll definitely be in line to pitch the 8th inning and eventually close. Bummer could be the closer next year if they don't pick up Colome's option. Really building a low cost GREAT bullpen with these young guys.  

[Dominikk85]

I love the fastball. It is straight and doesnt move but it has tons of spin and a good axis creating lift and tons of swings and misses (17% swstr). He just needs to make sure to throw it up in the zone where is is very tough to hit while down the straightness of it will not play so well. He also has surprising control already, not super fine command but around the zone most of the time.

I wonder what to do next year. You have to try making him a starter but those pitches in high A would be a travesty. Could you develope him into a starter in the  majors over a multi inning role next year? Or couldn't he really develope his third pitch here? He could be solid as a 2.5 pitch guy (like denilson lamet) but that wouldn't be ideal.

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Dominikk85