Jack Parkman Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I know people really believe this crap, but it is 100% clear that if he only cared about making money, he failed. The money making is in the Pittsburgh model where you collect all of the national and TV money, and then put a minimal payroll on the field. You fail to realize that you can't get away with that shit in Chicago. He runs a team in a large market like a lower end mid-market team. I question how much he actually cares about winning because all of his organizational MOs are antiquated. He holds on to too many traditional baseball thoughts. Also, I continue to believe that this front office does not value OBP. They have way too many free swingers in this lineup. They ran into Frank Thomas. Jerry does a lot of things right, he treats his players and other employees very well. The only thing keeping the Sox from being one of the organization in highest regard in baseball is that Jerry refuses to enter the top of the FA market, whether it's his own players or another team's. Edited October 2, 2020 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, WBWSF said: I've seen JRs act since day one of his White Sox ownership. All he cares about is making more money. From that standpoint he has been the most successful White Sox owner in the teams history. Other than his financial success he has been a lousy owner. Oh have you seen him his entire career as owner I never heard this before 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: You fail to realize that you can't get away with that shit in Chicago. He runs a team in a large market like a lower end mid-market team. I question how much he actually cares about winning because all of his organizational MOs are antiquated. He holds on to too many traditional baseball thoughts. Also, I continue to believe that this front office does not value OBP. They have way too many free swingers in this lineup. They ran into Frank Thomas. This front office had nothing to do with Frank Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: This front office had nothing to do with Frank Thomas I know.....historically the Sox have had issues with OBP, even before the Williams/Hahn regime started in the early 2000s. Who was the last player the Sox developed themselves that regularly had an OBP above .340? At least for 20+ years. They never develop them themselves. You can't even count Moncada as he spent his formative pro years in the Boston system. Edited October 2, 2020 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Just now, Kyyle23 said: This front office had nothing to do with Frank Thomas He meant they ran into Frank Thomas outside of Sox Fest Studio. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Just now, Jack Parkman said: I know.....historically the Sox have had issues with OBP. At least for 20+ years. You sure about all this? Carlos Lee and Maggs seemed to be some high OBP players and also maybe Thome and Jurassic Carl and Swisher. did they play in the last twenty years I forget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: You sure about all this? Carlos Lee and Maggs seemed to be some high OBP players and also maybe Thome and Jurassic Carl and Swisher. did they play in the last twenty years I forget Maggs was the last guy. I mean guys they developed, not guys they acquired from outside the org. Ok, I'll give you Caballo. I thought he was closer to a .330 OBP type guy but he was a bit better than that. Edited October 2, 2020 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 "Oh wait there is an example what I meant to say was....." always pickin up them goalposts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: "Oh wait there is an example what I meant to say was....." always pickin up them goalposts I knew Maggs was the last guy, I forgot Lee was as good as he was at drawing walks. Outside of Maggs, Lee and Frank, can you think of guys that were drafted or signed by the Sox that were decent OBP producers? Mike Cameron was pretty good as well. I was wrong about the pre-KW/Hahn era. I'll take the L on that one. Edited October 2, 2020 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I knew Maggs was the last guy, I forgot Lee was as good as he was at drawing walks. Outside of Maggs, Lee and Frank, can you think of guys that were drafted or signed by the Sox that were decent OBP producers? Mike Cameron was pretty good as well. I was wrong about the pre-KW/Hahn era. I'll take the L on that one. Is your point that the Sox haven't drafted and developed high obp Players or is your point that the front office has issues with it, like they don't care about it. You make these vague hot take proclamations and proceed to change your argument every damn time people call you out on it. So what is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 42 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Homer Bailey put up 2.9 fWAR in 2019 and got $7 million. Wade Miley did 1.4 and 2.0 fWAR and then got 2/$15. Quintana was hurt this year, is trending down, and will be 32 next season. I guess 1 year $10 million someone might do but it's odd to describe a 1 year/$10 million deal as "$10M+ per year", and I could see someone giving him that Miley deal. My point was he’s not Gio Gonzalez and will get paid much higher than typical swingman rates, which means he’s a luxury we can not afford if we also add a TOR starter and decent RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 26 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: You fail to realize that you can't get away with that shit in Chicago. He runs a team in a large market like a lower end mid-market team. I question how much he actually cares about winning because all of his organizational MOs are antiquated. He holds on to too many traditional baseball thoughts. Also, I continue to believe that this front office does not value OBP. They have way too many free swingers in this lineup. They ran into Frank Thomas. Jerry does a lot of things right, he treats his players and other employees very well. The only thing keeping the Sox from being one of the organization in highest regard in baseball is that Jerry refuses to enter the top of the FA market, whether it's his own players or another team's. BS. All there is to stop him from doing it is what? Fans not showing up? The Sox already have one of the lowest attending fan bases in baseball. He could squeeze out tens of millions of dollars more per year out of this franchise if that was really his goal. There are multiple teams around baseball that do exactly this. Pretending that Jerry would knuckle under to public opinion when he really never has in the past, doesn't give a convincing argument to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagahRagah Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Quintana is getting a $10M+ per year deal, so I don’t think it’s realistic to expect him in addition to a high-end starter. I think this is based on perception. It is doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Quintana is getting a $10M+ per year deal, so I don’t think it’s realistic to expect him in addition to a high-end starter. I don't see Q getting that much this winter. I think that might have been his max in a normal year after coming off of injuries and issues. I could see him under $5 million this winter. I am going to guess that the markets for the top guys and early signings holds up OK, but once teams make their early moves, the market just collapses. If there was ever a winter for a player to sign a one year deal and try again next year, this is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I don't see Q getting that much this winter. I think that might have been his max in a normal year after coming off of injuries and issues. I could see him under $5 million this winter. I am going to guess that the markets for the top guys and early signings holds up OK, but once teams make their early moves, the market just collapses. If there was ever a winter for a player to sign a one year deal and try again next year, this is it. My guess is the market stalls for everything as of December 1. Some team might go out and grab one guy they targeted like us with Grandal last year, but any player hoping for bidders will guess that several teams will wait until the last minute to put anything on paper, so they shouldn’t sign anything early unless it meets their asking price. My best guess remains a couple of deals in November and a complete stall until February. Just a guess again, but that’s my logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: My guess is the market stalls for everything as of December 1. Some team might go out and grab one guy they targeted like us with Grandal last year, but any player hoping for bidders will guess that several teams will wait until the last minute to put anything on paper, so they shouldn’t sign anything early unless it meets their asking price. My best guess remains a couple of deals in November and a complete stall until February. Just a guess again, but that’s my logic. I am going to guess that if you don't sign early, you get screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 I still think Bauer is the guy. We need his passion as all the real contenders have that guy. Lester,Verlander, Cole, DeGrom, Sale, and even Kershaw all provided it for their teams. Kopech is fun but I doubt he becomes that guy. Gio is not that type of guy and is too nice. DK is vocal enough but doesn't have the electric stuff to be that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 I'd love to sign Quintana as our Long man out of the pen but get 10ish starts a year due to injury/needed rest for the youngins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Less than a year ago, Reinsdorf paid a shit ton for Keuchel, Encarnacion and Grandal + extending Abreu.. and we're still on the "won't pay top free agents" thing huh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Less than a year ago, Reinsdorf paid a shit ton for Keuchel, Encarnacion and Grandal + extending Abreu.. and we're still on the "won't pay top free agents" thing huh? On top of that, Robert and Eloy getting the largest deals for rookies ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Less than a year ago, Reinsdorf paid a shit ton for Keuchel, Encarnacion and Grandal + extending Abreu.. and we're still on the "won't pay top free agents" thing huh? Forget it, he's rolling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Quin said: On top of that, Robert and Eloy getting the largest deals for rookies ever. And Anderson before them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 As for the thread title, Bauer makes too much sense. In addition to what he brings on the field, he could be the mentor Cease and other young guys need, like how Shields mentored Giolito and Dunning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 18 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: My guess is the market stalls for everything as of December 1. Some team might go out and grab one guy they targeted like us with Grandal last year, but any player hoping for bidders will guess that several teams will wait until the last minute to put anything on paper, so they shouldn’t sign anything early unless it meets their asking price. My best guess remains a couple of deals in November and a complete stall until February. Just a guess again, but that’s my logic. Problem with an player doing this is a depreciation in value. By February, teams may not be willing to spend and now you are screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Less than a year ago, Reinsdorf paid a shit ton for Keuchel, Encarnacion and Grandal + extending Abreu.. and we're still on the "won't pay top free agents" thing huh? When we're talking about "won't pay top free agents" we're talking about the Harper/Machado/Cole/Rendon tier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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